I understand need for AFT change, Mogami perspective honest confession

[albinbino]

In this post I will try to be very honest in the light of huge critics that are going on against announced AFT skill change.

When i first got my Mogami (about month ago) i went into the battle using 205 guns and I was performing bad because i get killed too fast, simply ship cannot endure more then 2 salvos from any BB. After I presented my problem  and despair here on forum, some experienced Mogami players gave me suggestion to actually use 155mm guns, instead of 205, which allow more range thanks to AFT skill, which I had.

After mounting 155 guns, my gameplay with Mogami has become such joy and true paradise, but this has made some other ships desperate. Practically thanks to low detection range and 18,1km range I have been able to torture other ships to the insanity. I get my Mogami close to some rock and start spamming HE as insane against enemy, many guns and fast reload make this spam insane and enemy cannot detect me. After applying this style in my battles with Mogami  i could almost feel the rage that enemy BBs captains are feeling after constantly being showered with HE shells from invisible source. No doubt this has caused many dissatisfaction and complaints against this ability Mogami has and this is why we will see the change.  So i understand this, but also this means after change I will have to return to 205 guns that will get this ship exposed and visible, i already said ship cannot survive long as such. I don't know what is solution but i do understand WG wanting to change this. In short, with current settings I feel so superior with Mogami in every battle and every map, because i know what ship can do and stay unpunished,  this fact probably has been brought to the WG knowledge. So all you out there Mogami captains, do you feel the same, honestly do you feel superior over any other ship in the game? 

[mike_864]

What satisfaction do you get from sitting behind a rock all game?

[JapLance]

Why would you feel the need to mount the 203mm (not 205) back? 155mm without AFT is still a better option.

[albinbino]

What satisfaction do you get from sitting behind a rock all game?

 

It is not all the game but in high tiers game where you pay 130.000 credits for ships repair you go to choose best strategy to stay alive and damage enemy as much as you can. Don't forget, one shot from BB can delete Mogami from the map (no matter how angled), after you experience that few times that you die in first minute from one salve, the caution will become part of you.

[Trigger_Happy_Dad]

I do better in my Arp Myoko and Myoko than with my Mogami.

 

Myoko has 1km more range and less brutal mm.

 

AT 15 km the Mogami is just a huge citadel waiting for death.

 

MK is the same at 15km....

 

MK gets 19km range  + better turret traverse + higher ROF to compensate for the loss of extra AFT range.

 

Mogami gets 15km range  + worse  turret traverse + lower ROF = no compensation for the  loss of extra AFT range.

 

That's B...S... in my book.

 

Have fun with World of DDs and BBs.

[JapLance]

Why would you feel the need to mount the 203mm (not 205) back? 155mm without AFT is still a better option.

 

OK, I retract my words. I just read that turret rotation skill is also nerfed, so 155mm probably are not viable anymore.

[Takeda92]

Why would you feel the need to mount the 203mm (not 205) back? 155mm without AFT is still a better option.

 

No it is not. I just tried it on the test server and the turret traverse is horrible. Remember Yorck, pre-buff? yeah..

 

Mogami is not bad when she's fighting other cruisers and destroyers up close thanks to 140mm of citadel armor. I was actually quite surprised today of the amount of damage I shrug when angled. The new skill that gives 400 hp per tier is really sweet for Mogami as well, I survived matches with only 1-2 k hp left and this skill gives you 3200 hp.

 

Its firepower sadly is not built for brawling. The 155mm, while nice, turn way too slow for.. anything. The 203mm have nice turret rotation, but you'd think the turret arrangement of Mogami would give her advantage over the Myoko.. it doesn't. you still have to show more than 30 degrees to show at least 3 turrets. If that's the case, then I rather play Aoba with 5.5 rpm and show absolutely no angle to the enemy.

 

Planes will shred you apart now too. I played Myoko and I found that you can still kill planes every now and then. Mogami pretty much will take massive damage even from DBs. 

 

Btw, the only ships I had a chance of killing in the test server are other Mogamis (and some DDs). Hipper doesn't seem to like taking citadels from Mogami for some reason. If you angle, they can't citadel you too thanks to that sweet citadel armor, but you won't be able to fire many guns too. For some reason I citadeled an Amagi at 15km though!

 

So I found Mogami in the test server the same as I found her during CBT when I played her with the 203mm.. average ship, except everyone around her got stronger (we didn't have Atagos, MKs and Hippers back then). 

[Trigger_Happy_Dad]

0.5.3 :  MK better than Atago, Atago better than Mogami;

 

MK : 19km range + higher turret traverse speed  + higher ROF

 

Atago: 15,8km range, better torpedo-angles than Mogami (= doesn't have to show as much broadside as Mogami) + can heal HP

 

Mogami: 15,1km range, lousy turret traverse, lousy ROF, lousy torpedo angles

 

**********************************************************************************************************************************************************

 

So if you want a good tier 8 cruiser in 0.5.3, just pay 50 - 60 € for MK / Atago = pay2win = not good at all for this game.

 

I can see the complaints for 0.5.3 already:

 

"Booohoo, only premium cruisers + DDs and BBs in high tier games, why WG!?"

 

[D7v]

M K is a good ship now confirmed and soon I guess it will be sold again and there will be hell lot of buyers.

[D7v]

Still close range I bet Mogami will beat both Kutuzoff and Atago. Atago far more easily.

[Needy_Game]

i find the fact of 155mm being practically more powerful in the game than the 203mm absurd, you see all these mogami's spamming with reckless abandon while even higher tier ships like the Ibuki, will have to be punished by the endless stream of HE

[BladeRy]

Well, Mogami got shafted...hard.

Range nerf to the xtreme, of course MK gets a buff.

Turret traverse nerfed to hell, MK gets a buff.

 

How will people play Mogami now? 155s with horrible traverse and crappy range or 203s with better traverse and same crappy range... both choices suck. Brawling with Mogami is out of question, gets wrecked with ease, no range to do anything else. Due to this nerfs, that ruined the ship btw, she could go back to tier 7.

 

I loved Mogami, she was a keeper ship in my book...but now? She is only going to be an eye candy.

Her MM forced her to stay the hell away from the front line, she gets citadeled by any BB with ease, the further away she is more time she has to try and avoid fire.

[vash_hu]

Actually I think it was quite unfair that 155 mm CA-s could shoot further than 203 mm ones. However I think CA-s have too short range overall compared to battleships, they should have a 10% permanent buff without AFT.

 

Also CA is the most fragile ship in the whole game, they should be able to endure a little more...

 

The buff on MK should be the school example of unfairness anyway...

[xeransa]

At the moment the Mogami is the only tier 8 CA that I enjoy playing because you can stay at long range against BBs, I don't hide behind islands I just shoot and dodge. As soon as I get closer to BBs (especially Tirpitz with it's faster shells) it gets harder to dodge their shells and it doesn't matter how you are angled they can still crush you in one salvo and then there's the games which have the Yamato in them...

[BladeRy]

The AFT nerf has no reason. If they wanted to lower 155mm range, all ships would lose the AFT bonus. But MK still retains it and it gets buffed. So the HE spam will continue.

Like they forget that hitting a ship from 18.1km in Mogami/other ships with shell travel time is hard. Enemy has ample time to turn the ship this and that way to avoid most of the fire. And dont forget that shooting a BB from max range to stay cloaked is just pointless. Other cruisers have around 11km detection range, so they can be well inside your range and light you up when you shoot, not to mention DDs that can be even closer.

So all in all, nerfing the range and turret rotation that hit Mogami hard on the other hand did nothing to address the real problems. CA have no way to fight BBs aside hit and run, and AP just doesnt cut it most of the times, so they use HE. You need to shoot a BB for quite some time to burn him to the ground, but in higher tiers a BB will slaughter you with one well placed salvo, 1-2 citadels and its game over.

 

Mogami gets 15.1km range with 155s or 203s at T8.

New orleans gets 16.2km

Hipper gets 17.7km

 

 

[Pajosaurus]

I'm a farily aggressive player and I don't like staying on the outer limits of gun range. AFT nerf won't affect me personally (actually, none of my cruisers have it!), but the other two nerfs are much more serious, especially the turret traverse one. It is an ENORMOUS blow to Mogami and I imagine a significant one to Konigsberg and Nurnberg as well. Good luck trying to keep your guns on target and evading at the same time!

[Kazomir]

Mogami was the only competitive tier 7-9 cruiser that could stand up to BB/DD spam.

 

True, for all the wrong reasons (cause using stock guns just cause they are affected by skills is ridiculous) , but still, nerfing it was not the answer we needed.

 

Mikhail Kutuzov got a huge compensation for the removal of AFT (or at least that is WG's reasoning, which is a blatant lie) and Mogami just got the nerf. Lol. More like MK Got the buff cause sales were bad asf.

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

 

No it is not. I just tried it on the test server and the turret traverse is horrible. Remember Yorck, pre-buff? yeah..

 

Mogami is not bad when she's fighting other cruisers and destroyers up close thanks to 140mm of citadel armor. I was actually quite surprised today of the amount of damage I shrug when angled. The new skill that gives 400 hp per tier is really sweet for Mogami as well, I survived matches with only 1-2 k hp left and this skill gives you 3200 hp.

 

Its firepower sadly is not built for brawling. The 155mm, while nice, turn way too slow for.. anything. The 203mm have nice turret rotation, but you'd think the turret arrangement of Mogami would give her advantage over the Myoko.. it doesn't. you still have to show more than 30 degrees to show at least 3 turrets. If that's the case, then I rather play Aoba with 5.5 rpm and show absolutely no angle to the enemy.

 

Planes will shred you apart now too. I played Myoko and I found that you can still kill planes every now and then. Mogami pretty much will take massive damage even from DBs. 

 

Btw, the only ships I had a chance of killing in the test server are other Mogamis (and some DDs). Hipper doesn't seem to like taking citadels from Mogami for some reason. If you angle, they can't citadel you too thanks to that sweet citadel armor, but you won't be able to fire many guns too. For some reason I citadeled an Amagi at 15km though!

 

So I found Mogami in the test server the same as I found her during CBT when I played her with the 203mm.. average ship, except everyone around her got stronger (we didn't have Atagos, MKs and Hippers back then). 

 

Great post. It describes the problems that Mogami faces in 0.5.3 perfectly.

 

I've played Mogami with both 155mm and 203mm guns on the PT Server and experienced EXACTLY THE SAME ISSUES.

 

DISCLOSURE: I am a despised ""wallet warrior". I also have Atago and Kutuzov.  Obviously I'll play these ships instead of Mogami until WG give it some love in a future patch.

 

[albinbino]

Well I am not part of testing server so i cannot see how things will look like. Currently Mogami is my favorite ship in the game, after update i will try my best to adopt to it, and change my style. But i am low on credits, very rare i buy premium, and when i do, it is only for a day. If am unable to last enough in a game to make some damage to cover the repair costs, I will be forced to sell the ship. But lets wait to see. Selling Mogami is really depressive option for me .

[ammattimies]

The AFT nerf has no reason. If they wanted to lower 155mm range, all ships would lose the AFT bonus. But MK still retains it and it gets buffed. So the HE spam will continue.

Like they forget that hitting a ship from 18.1km in Mogami/other ships with shell travel time is hard. Enemy has ample time to turn the ship this and that way to avoid most of the fire. And dont forget that shooting a BB from max range to stay cloaked is just pointless. Other cruisers have around 11km detection range, so they can be well inside your range and light you up when you shoot, not to mention DDs that can be even closer.

So all in all, nerfing the range and turret rotation that hit Mogami hard on the other hand did nothing to address the real problems. CA have no way to fight BBs aside hit and run, and AP just doesnt cut it most of the times, so they use HE. You need to shoot a BB for quite some time to burn him to the ground, but in higher tiers a BB will slaughter you with one well placed salvo, 1-2 citadels and its game over.

 

Mogami gets 15.1km range with 155s or 203s at T8.

New orleans gets 16.2km

Hipper gets 17.7km

 

 

I think it had a reason and it should be described as "cruiser guns were shooting further than intended, leaving behind many BB big caliber guns even". It's not the greatest time for the change however since cruisers aren't exactly super stronk at the moment.  I would still remind that every cruiser in the game is still very dangerous to all DD's, and hunting those should be their task #1. Supporting bigger ships or cruiserpacks with their AA / main batteries / scouting aircraft or sonar should be task #2. How well they can fare in exchanging fire with big guns, I'm not really sure they should be so great at that (there's another class for it). IJN cruisers also have this nice ability to kill any ship that lets them get to point-blank range with torps. Also, thanks to decent camo, IJN cruisers are the next best choice for a capping job if DD's aren't up to their task or have been taken out already. Do correct me if I'm badly mistaken somehow...

 

Mogami was the only competitive tier 7-9 cruiser that could stand up to BB/DD spam.

True, for all the wrong reasons (cause using stock guns just cause they are affected by skills is ridiculous) , but still, nerfing it was not the answer we needed.

Mikhail Kutuzov got a huge compensation for the removal of AFT (or at least that is WG's reasoning, which is a blatant lie) and Mogami just got the nerf. Lol. More like MK Got the buff cause sales were bad asf.

 

We all should agree that doing a big nerf to a premium ship (which have been staggeringly expensive btw) is not a good press. WG has earlier stated they'd only like to touch premium ships if it's absolutely necessary for the balance. I think it's a very challenging ship line anyway, IJN cruisers before they get good ranges on T9-T10. Should be teamplaying a lot, not trying to shoot all the time to stay hidden to move into good positions, should be ready to punish with AP if close range salvo chance opens etc...

[Trigger_Happy_Dad]

 We all should agree that doing a big nerf to a premium ship (which have been staggeringly expensive btw) is not a good press.

 

Making premium ships  stronger than regular ones isn't exactly a smart move either....it's called pay2win.....= bad press too. 

[vash_hu]

All they had to do is increase all cruisers' (203-s too!) range by 10% for compensation, instead they increased only MK's by 20. Russian guns were this better historically? I don't think so.

 

And anyway, the "wallet warriors" bought the ship, not the captain. So the ship could remain as it was, "only" the captain skill is nerfed anyway... What if a player did not have AFT on MK, now he is getting 20% increase for free?

[ReNation]

IMO

 

buff mogami range by 1km to make her range same as myoko

then all is good.

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

All they had to do is increase all cruisers' (203-s too!) range by 10% for compensation, instead they increased only MK's by 20. Russian guns were this better historically? I don't think so.

 

And anyway, the "wallet warriors" bought the ship, not the captain. So the ship could remain as it was, "only" the captain skill is nerfed anyway... What if a player did not have AFT on MK, now he is getting 20% increase for free?

 

Yes AFT for free...or if he already had AFT then he can spend the four skill points on another tier 4 skill (e.g. Demolition Expert), or on a couple of lower tier skills.

 

Mikhail Kutuzov - coming in a bundle to a Premium Shop near you soon! Now with even more Premium advantages to talk about.

 

(P.S. I already have Kutuzov because I am one of those horrible Wallet Warriors! )

[BladeRy]

 

I think it had a reason and it should be described as "cruiser guns were shooting further than intended, leaving behind many BB big caliber guns even". It's not the greatest time for the change however since cruisers aren't exactly super stronk at the moment.  I would still remind that every cruiser in the game is still very dangerous to all DD's, and hunting those should be their task #1. Supporting bigger ships or cruiserpacks with their AA / main batteries / scouting aircraft or sonar should be task #2. How well they can fare in exchanging fire with big guns, I'm not really sure they should be so great at that (there's another class for it). IJN cruisers also have this nice ability to kill any ship that lets them get to point-blank range with torps. Also, thanks to decent camo, IJN cruisers are the next best choice for a capping job if DD's aren't up to their task or have been taken out already. Do correct me if I'm badly mistaken somehow...

 

 

We all should agree that doing a big nerf to a premium ship (which have been staggeringly expensive btw) is not a good press. WG has earlier stated they'd only like to touch premium ships if it's absolutely necessary for the balance. I think it's a very challenging ship line anyway, IJN cruisers before they get good ranges on T9-T10. Should be teamplaying a lot, not trying to shoot all the time to stay hidden to move into good positions, should be ready to punish with AP if close range salvo chance opens etc...

 

 

You are not wrong, its just that strategy ingame is different that RL one. Cruisers chasing DDs will be spotted by DDs and focused by BBs in short order. Cruisers "should" be a DD shield for big ships. But in current gameplay, dmg done = exp = money. So people suicide dmg all they can before they get killed.

I have seen a lot of games where cruisers would survive if they just disengaged in time.