So recently I moved form IJN CAs to BBs... what a difference!

[thepasty]

As the title say... recently I'd had enough of getting my CAs popped by BBs, a single lucky shot from afar results in half your hp gone, normally by scratching the stern or something else equally as minor... I know all the dont show broadside etc but that doesnt seem to matter at higher tiers (I got to 8), you get hit you go pop.

 

So having had enough I started playing up the IJN BB tier, the first 3 tiers were truely horrible but then I got the Kongo and since then my damage output, exp, ships sunk etc has atleast doubled (and thats compared to T8 cruiser!) and I spend much less time at the bottom of the ocean.

 

I'm an average player but I'm surprised theres such a jump in performance simply from changing class.... was I aweful in CAs? better in BBs? I dunno!

 

Are BBs just a better class to play right now? I know CAs are pretty weak in the current game mechanics.

 

Anyone else found this?

 

I'm very much enjoying my new love for BBs, not now that I'm having greater success but I am able to influence a game much more readily, I feel like I'm

fighting again rather than just surviving.

[Whatever08152]

Same here. I started with cruisers and switched to US BBs after I got to the Ibuki because i felt useless and couldnt stand it anymore

 

This was also the point where the game really got me ...I red some guides, watches some videos and since then enjoyed BBs much more than cruisers. I guess it just suits my playstyle more (but then again I was a total noob in cruisers and do really love the Königsberg right now after I started to play the german cruisers a couple of days ago).

 

And if you judge performance from damage done then its normal that BBs do more damage than cruisers Id say.. still - enjoy your new love for BBs - they can be real fun  

[Nechrom]

I guess it just suits my playstyle more

 

[ColonelPete]

BBs do more damage than Cruisers. That is the way they were designed.

But if you do double damage in a Kongo compared to a Mogami, you were either completely incompetent in the cruiser or you are godlike in the Kongo.

[D7v]

Problem with IJN CA's they get citadel-ed more often than others even if you don't show broadside gets citadel-ed. 

 

Problem with BB's are they are prone to DD torp attacks however it is not an issue as big as having a weak citadel. DD kills BB kills CA kills DD kills CV kills ALL

 

[Whatever08152]

 

 

What? Did i say something wrong?

[Kazomir]

CAs from tier 5 and up cant even compare to BBs.

 

Truth is most of the enemies you will see in a battle are either CAs or BBs, and BBs are a lot more adept at dealing damage to these two classes.

 

DDs and CVs are often a threat to a BB, but you will find that they are no smaller threat to a Cruiser aswell, and sometimes DDs and CVs on both teams cancel eachother out, so a BB does not have to worry.

 

CAs have much more natural enemies than a BB.

[Nechrom]

 

What? Did i say something wrong?

 

I just found that funny since it's basically a meme by now.

You question someone why they play mostly something overpowered and they answer: "Because it suits my playstyle."

[Whatever08152]

 

I just found that funny since it's basically a meme by now.

You question someone why they play mostly something overpowered and they answer: "Because it suits my playstyle."

 

Ok, now I got it. To my defense ...I wasnt questioned and I only wanted to point out a possible reason why I like BBs more than CAs. AAAAND ...you cant push in a CA ..so it suits my playstyle indeed :p

[IamTroublemaker]

CAs from tier 5 and up cant even compare to BBs.

 

Truth is most of the enemies you will see in a battle are either CAs or BBs, and BBs are a lot more adept at dealing damage to these two classes.

 

DDs and CVs are often a threat to a BB, but you will find that they are no smaller threat to a Cruiser aswell, and sometimes DDs and CVs on both teams cancel eachother out, so a BB does not have to worry.

 

CAs have much more natural enemies than a BB.

 

Cleveland, Aoba, Myoko, Hipper, Mogami, Atago, Ibuki are just a few that I have played with and found them as good and as fun as BBs (don't have better damage in them than with BBs, but then again you cannot really engage them like with a BB).

 

BBs have the most "natural" enemies. You got DDs and CVs that are real counters and on top of that you get CAs with their fires. I play both classes equally and find myself much more "paranoid" when playing BBs.

[fletch67]

Cruisers for me are the hardest to play at the moment. Very unforgiving, like a giant DD without the smoke or concealment. You can get get some nice damage but BBs will destroy you very quickly.

[Kazomir]

 

Cleveland, Aoba, Myoko, Hipper, Mogami, Atago, Ibuki are just a few that I have played with and found them as good and as fun as BBs (don't have better damage in them than with BBs, but then again you cannot really engage them like with a BB).

 

BBs have the most "natural" enemies. You got DDs and CVs that are real counters and on top of that you get CAs with their fires. I play both classes equally and find myself much more "paranoid" when playing BBs.

 

Cleveland and Aoba vs New Mex and Fuso, Mogami and Atago vs Amagi, Ibuki vs Izumo (kay both are mediocre) there is really no ground for comparison.

 

BBs dont have most natural enemies, since their most natural enemies, DDs and CVs, often focus eachother instead and cancel eachother out.

A CA has to watch out for enemy BBs that can Citadel the oblivion out of them, they have to watch out for enemy CAs that can also set them on fire OR citadel them, and DD and CV are no less threat to them than they are to BBs.

[Toivia]

As someone rather lacking skill, I'd say BBs are easier to learn and can still do fairly well without a skilled player.

 

With a cruiser, you need to be much more aware of the surroundings as anything can kill you very fast. I suppose Ds are even worse in that departement (last class I haven't tried yet, specifically because I still have trouble in CAs).

[vortenus]

CAs from tier 5 and up cant even compare to BBs.

 

Except Zao, she can solo every BB

[Kazomir]

 

Except Zao, she can solo every BB

 

Indeed Zao has my respect.  Still not Yamato level of dangerous but a respectable and competitive cruiser.

[IamTroublemaker]

 

Cleveland and Aoba vs New Mex and Fuso, Mogami and Atago vs Amagi, Ibuki vs Izumo (kay both are mediocre) there is really no ground for comparison.

 

I'm not fully sure I understand that comparison. Those ships are named are ships that do not have too many troubles when engaging any ship (at least from my experience). Of course a CA is probably gonna lose a gunfight against a BB.

By that logic Yamato doesn't have any chance vs Shimakaze either. So why is Yamato so strong then?

BBs dont have most natural enemies, since their most natural enemies, DDs and CVs, often focus eachother instead and cancel eachother out.

A CA has to watch out for enemy BBs that can Citadel the oblivion out of them, they have to watch out for enemy CAs that can also set them on fire OR citadel them, and DD and CV are no less threat to them than they are to BBs.

 

BBs also focus each other as well.

BBs have to watch out for DDs as they can torp the crap out of them and cause flooding easily (if the BB was on fire previously and repaired for example).

[Aotearas]

Feel the burning love!

 

Kongou is absolutely amazing. Loving her to bits.

 

As for IJN BBs vs CAs, or CAs in general I'm woefully underequipped to really make a reasonable judgement, though I do have a harder time playing CAs than BBs. No idea exactly why, but I think the metagame just isn't very favourable for cruisers. The ones I'm at are the Cleveland, Furutaka and Karlsruhe.

Most of the time I'm in the Cleveland, no CVs around and the shells are so slow that any halfway competent DD player can easily dodge incoming fire if he ever got spotted (had a game on Ocean map and the enemy Gnevny was dancing rings around our group of ships at around 9-10km, absolutely no chance hitting that little bugger as he kept spotting and pouring HE into us.

The Furutaka is a victim of circumstances. With her I have ridiculously bad luck with matchmaking and my teammates. I try to play her as a ranged, heavy-hitting support cruiser, but all the damn time, my team just starts dying in the starting minutes of the game and then I'm more or less alone and get whittled down. I'm already making sure to stay with my team, but those people just can't stay alive for more than a couple minutes. Every single game has been one giant disaster and I never got to play her to her strengths yet.

And the Karlsruhe is probably the most fun actually, although objectively not a good ship I have more fun with it.

 

Comparing that with battleships, they have a much higher carry capacity. Whilst mistakes usually get punished hard if you're in a BB and the ships aren't versatile enough to just go along with a situation on the fly, if you know what you're doing, you can make it a much harder fight. You can take more damage, you can pull aggro for your team so they stay alive longer to help (for what that's worth with random teammates, most would do better being replaced with the PvE bots) and provided your gunnery is on point, you can dish out lots of damage. A properly played BB can have a much, much more significant impact on a game than a cruiser. At least that's what I keep experiencing so far.

[Kazomir]

 

I'm not fully sure I understand that comparison. Those ships are named are ships that do not have too many troubles when engaging any ship (at least from my experience). Of course a CA is probably gonna lose a gunfight against a BB.

By that logic Yamato doesn't have any chance vs Shimakaze either. So why is Yamato so strong then?

 

BBs also focus each other as well.

BBs have to watch out for DDs as they can torp the crap out of them and cause flooding easily (if the BB was on fire previously and repaired for example).

 

I still think BBs are far easier to play and do more damage with (and survive more) . And I think there are statistics to back my claim up.

[IamTroublemaker]

 

I still think BBs are far easier to play and do more damage with (and survive more) . And I think there are statistics to back my claim up.

 

Nobody is denying that they do more damage and have the ability to survive more, but every ship has its role and you really cannot compare CA vs BB with BB vs BB and say that all the CAs from T5 and above are crap because of that.

[thepasty]

BBs do more damage than Cruisers. That is the way they were designed.

But if you do double damage in a Kongo compared to a Mogami, you were either completely incompetent in the cruiser or you are godlike in the Kongo.

 

to be fair I havent played Mogami that much, you can be bow on to a BB in that thing and still get Citdelled easily by a plunging fire onto your stern or the like... its one big citidel! I got tired of the frustrating gameplay, I'm not one of those ppl who are happy hiding behind islands or stealth firing... lower tiers I'd be happy charging a BB in my Aoba and torping at close range.... no such fun at higher tiers.

 

Maybe thats it, higher tier CAs dont suite my style and being forced to play them in a way I dont find fun leads me to try something else...

[Kazomir]

 

Nobody is denying that they do more damage and have the ability to survive more, but every ship has its role and you really cannot compare CA vs BB with BB vs BB and say that all the CAs from T5 and above are crap because of that.

 

Okay, what is the role of the CA class in the higher tiers, say tier 5-6 and up? Because I really dont see any.

 

Chase and kill DDs? Tough, you get spotted by the DD way before you spot him and the enemy BBs make short work of you. Plus DDs are faster than you.

US DDs are way better at DD hunting.

 

Protect BBs from Carriers? Maybe, IF THERE WERE ANY CARRIERS. And even if there are, most will just switch their target. And with upcoming AA changes, reducing AA ranges, I dunno.

Carriers themselves are better plane hunters than cruisers.

 

The only cruiser that has a role in higher tiers is the Zao and it is a role of harrasment\

 

Only reason tier 3-4 cruisers are kinda competitive are because BBs at those tiers are crap.

[IamTroublemaker]

 

Okay, what is the role of the CA class in the higher tiers, say tier 5-6 and up? Because I really dont see any.

 

Chase and kill DDs? Tough, you get spotted by the DD way before you spot him and the enemy BBs make short work of you. Plus DDs are faster than you.

US DDs are way better at DD hunting.

 

Protect BBs from Carriers? Maybe, IF THERE WERE ANY CARRIERS. And even if there are, most will just switch their target. And with upcoming AA changes, reducing AA ranges, I dunno.

Carriers themselves are better plane hunters than cruisers.

 

The only cruiser that has a role in higher tiers is the Zao and it is a role of harrasment\

 

Only reason tier 3-4 cruisers are kinda competitive are because BBs at those tiers are crap.

 

Are you talking out of experience or just of what you've read on the forums?

 

There isn't just 1 role. I played and play my Ibuki this way: go with the team, protect everybody around me from CVs, try to spot torps and shoot everything that moves (especially BBs since setting them on fire is relatively easy) and I am really satisfied with the results as I am mostly top (top 5) in my team that way. You cannot really say every CA should be played the same and I really do not want to write how I play all of my CAs so far.

[Kazomir]

 

Are you talking out of experience or just of what you've read on the forums?

 

There isn't just 1 role. I played and play my Ibuki this way: go with the team, protect everybody around me from CVs, try to spot torps and shoot everything that moves (especially BBs since setting them on fire is relatively easy) and I am really satisfied with the results as I am mostly top (top 5) in my team that way. You cannot really say every CA should be played the same and I really do not want to write how I play all of my CAs so far.

 

Experience.

 

Your described playestyle is the best possible for a cruiser, but it often works only untill an enemy BB sees you and starts shooting. In your last reply you told me that BBs are meant to deal more damage, with wich I agree, but what about survivability? Cruisers die too fast in my opinion. It is not fun watching half your health go away just cause some dude 20km away lucked out.

 

The reason is that being hit in the citadel is equal in damage to being hit by a torpedo from a japanese DD, and those are much more easier to avoid (and less in number) than BB salvos fired at you.

[Kurbain]

 

I still think BBs are far easier to play and do more damage with (and survive more) . And I think there are statistics to back my claim up.

 

I would like to disagree.

While it is true that CAs can die much easier than BBs at the higher tiers, being a good BB player is harder than being a good CA player.

 

Firstly, how much damage you take in a CA is determined largely by RNG due to BB dispersion. You can be evading like crazy and still receive a 30K salvo or you could be sailing broadside to a BB at 10 KM and only receive 2,5K.

In a BB, however, your effectiveness is greatly influenced by how well you angle.

 

Secondly, BBs have to be much more careful about when to engage. As soon as you start tanking and things go south it is nearly impossible to back down without taking huge amounts of damage.

Last time I tried tanking in my Amagi in a T10 game, I noticed the Yamato didn't care much about whether I was angled or not, decided to turn away, took 40K damage from enemy BBs during the 20 seconds I had to show broadside and had the last 15K lifepoints burned off by a Zao. Total amount of damage done by me during that round: 15K.

Even my Randomly-Receive-2-Citadels-Despite-Angling-And-Evading Mogami games don't end that badly.

As soon as I decided to tank in my Amagi, I was already destined to be dead. You have to think ahead in a BB.

[Black0rchid]

I played CA's (german line) since I started. I stoped at the roon because, first I can not make enough money to just play it (most of the times it breaks even) and second because no mater how well the game goes it just hasn't got enough damage in the high tiers compared to the damage the other 3 classes are able to deal.

For the reasons I mentioned above, I decided to try both DD and BB so I could understand what the diference was... and man what a suprise. Both DD and BB have it very easy compared to CA's, the damage is all or nothing. Regarding carriers.... I am still on the first tier so I cannot make and educated decision...yet.

 

I do belive that making CA's a litle bit stronger in terms of citadel resistence or a litle more damage output would go a long way towards rebalancing the game. It makes no sense to me hitting a Destroyer 6/7 times and it not sinking... they are suposed to be the weaker ships in game, however if a BS hits me with a full salvo.......I am in the botom before I can say Roon.