Cap the number of DD's per game

[Frank_F_B]

In short: I love to play DD's, but lately there is an overkill in DD's. Today in a game there were 9 DD's out of 20 ships...  CV's are capped 2 per game per team, make DD's 3 or per game per team. Just a thought, don't shoot the messanger ;-)

[ColonelPete]

This is no message, just your idea (and a bad one)

[RamirezKurita]

Alternatively, fix things so that the best counter to other DDs aren't other DDs. The problem right now is that the best counter to a team full of DDs is either another team of DDs or a team with lots of carriers (which the limit of two, overnerfing on most tiers and mirrored MM prevents).

[Gunship14]

I'd be really careful if I were you OP, suggesting a change to a player base whose main criteria for balancing are their personal grudges.

 

People love having 14 total BBs in a match, just like they love having 10 DDs in one. No need to change that.

[AgarwaenME]

Cap the number of BBs, and you'll see the number of DDs dropping at once.

 

As it is, by design they want CAs and DDs to be the most common class, and not like it's been for ages, BBs.

[CatOnKeyboard]

Honestly there should be a cap of 2 CVs, 4 BBs, 4 CL/CA and 2 DDs. Teams should also be mirrored in ship class.

 

CV CV

CV CV

BB BB

BB BB

BB BB

BB BB

CL CA

CL CA 

CA CL

CA CL

DD DD

 

Not

 

CV CV

CV CV

BB BB

BB BB

CA BB

CA BB

CL CA

CA CL

DD CL

DD CL

DD DD

DD DD

 

Granted these are pretty extreme examples but still.

[N00b32]

Tsundere_, on 23 January 2016 - 06:19 PM, said:

Honestly there should be a cap of 2 CVs, 4 BBs, 4 CL/CA and 2 DDs. Teams should also be mirrored in ship class.

 

 

Because mirror matchmaking was so awesome with carriers. Now instead of having variation in every game let´s make everything more of the same. I don' t think this is a useful idea. Simply because it kills variation. 

[RamirezKurita]

 

Because mirror matchmaking was so awesome with carriers. Now instead of having variation in every game let´s make everything more of the same. I don' t think this is a useful idea. Simply because it kills variation. 

 

Not only that it makes specialist ship classes pretty pointless. No point being a AA specialised cruiser if you are guaranteed to have equal carriers so you don't need the extra AA cover. Likewise, no point being a good DD hunter if the MM was forced so that you are guaranteed to have equal DDs, as you would always have a load of allied DDs to provide a screen for you. Part of the point of having variation is so that people can formulate different strategies for every game, to improvise around weaknesses and to take advantage of strengths.

[CatOnKeyboard]

 

Not only that it makes specialist ship classes pretty pointless. No point being a AA specialised cruiser if you are guaranteed to have equal carriers so you don't need the extra AA cover. Likewise, no point being a good DD hunter if the MM was forced so that you are guaranteed to have equal DDs, as you would always have a load of allied DDs to provide a screen for you. Part of the point of having variation is so that people can formulate different strategies for every game, to improvise around weaknesses and to take advantage of strengths.

 

If anything it only makes specialized classes stronger because a pack of Baltimores and Des Moines are guaranteed to provide more of an AA threat than a pack of Ibukis and Zaos. Of course, that would require changing Defensive AA Fire as an ability to not be completely game breakingly degenerate. When you get into a match where the enemy plainly has superior ships, such as German and Japanese Cruisers while you're fielding American Cruisers who are crying at an empty sky with nothing to actually shoot down and guns that are only marginally better or worse than their counterparts (Looking at you Cleveland), I call nonsense. Part of the problem is Carriers are utterly necessary for this game to function and they just aren't good enough right now.

 

 Carriers keep Brokenships in balance, which in turn generates a want for AA cover, so AA dependent Cruisers have a purpose in life. People realise you can also basically just rush down the Brokenships with subs Destroyers, so Destroyers get played. Cruisers eat Destroyers anyway so the cycle continues. Carriers have no specific hard counter but honestly should be balanced by the fact they have limited planes, flight times and have to fight through waves of flak to even do damage. No other ship class can "run out of ammo". In a sense, Carriers outright deserve to deal the most damage, more than Timmy in his point and click adventures in the Tomato. Carriers take far more executional skill to play well and a good Carrier should be rewarded, not punished. Of course this will never happen because apparently all you Battleship players want 12 vs 12 battlewagon shoot offs that take absolutely forever where nothing happens.

 

 

[RamirezKurita]

 

If anything it only makes specialized classes stronger because a pack of Baltimores and Des Moines are guaranteed to provide more of an AA threat than a pack of Ibukis and Zaos. Of course, that would require changing Defensive AA Fire as an ability to not be completely game breakingly degenerate. When you get into a match where the enemy plainly has superior ships, such as German and Japanese Cruisers while you're fielding American Cruisers who are crying at an empty sky with nothing to actually shoot down and guns that are only marginally better or worse than their counterparts (Looking at you Cleveland), I call nonsense. Part of the problem is Carriers are utterly necessary for this game to function and they just aren't good enough right now.

 

However the difference in AA power between a collection of USN cruisers and IJN cruisers is still far smaller than the difference in AA power between a team with lots of cruisers vs a team with very few cruisers. The differences within a class will always be smaller than the differences between classes. Because mirrored MM would make the differences between different teams much smaller, it would remove the major strategic element of figuring out how to use your teams strengths while playing to avoid your weaknesses, as suddenly both teams would have almost identical strengths and weaknesses.

[anonym_hqO9wrVAEQYQ]

Teams should also be mirrored in ship class.

 

 

NO. and just in case  you missed that NO.

Non mirrored matches are fun

[tyco]

Those mirror matches where both teams have the same amount of every class are boring enough. Don't try to make it even more boring with fixed numbers of everything.

Why not a cap on battleships? They are annoying as I play some cruisers at the moment and BBs are too stronk against them!!111

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

 

NO. and just in case  you missed that NO.

Non mirrored matches are fun

 

Obviously some usage of the word "fun" that I have not previously encountered.  (With thanks to "The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy")

[VaLTrantor]

While I basically agree about the fact that non-mirrored matches can be huge fun, I am still with the OP about a cap for DDs. Right now there are too many DDs, and most often its just the team with the smarter DDs which will win, as they can influence the game without risking anything (as long as there are no spotter planes available, a DD can not be detected by anything else than another DD - win the DD-war, win the match, with basically no chance for the other team, in my opinion its even worse than with the CVs, if its not a Midway ..).

 

I am a mostly BB-captain, but many of my friends who like to play DD or CA/CL a lot too agree with this. At the moment this game feels a bit like "World of Torps and being torped .." which is not as much fun as it could be.

 

[anonym_UgMNTuWYVfiQ]

There isn't to much DD in the games but most of the times to little. There should be a cap on the numbers of BB in 1 game. 2 BB in 1 team is more than enough. If they did that they could make BB stronger. My way is more historical correct i think. 

[Bhikku]

Non mirrored matches fun?

Try a match with 1x T6 BB against an enemy with T8 and T9 BBs... so much fun....

[VaLTrantor]

Bhikku, if you come to a +3 tier battle, then just do not blame anyone else than yourself and your lack of understanding how the matchmaker works.

Apart from that, being low tier is not great, yes. But if you are in a t6 bb vs t8 bbs, you can still do something, and hope your t8 dds will own their t6 dds ;)

 

[N00b32]

Non mirrored matches fun?

Try a match with 1x T6 BB against an enemy with T8 and T9 BBs... so much fun....

 

Wait. What ? What has mirror matchmaking to do with +2/-2 matchmaking ? Oh, you want to equalize everything. Umm. Ok. 

[MudMonkey]

The problem is not the DDs. The problem is the absence of CVs. How about fixing that and not starting another new problem.

[mtm78]

If every match was fully mirrored in team composition, it would get boring fast imo.

 

And equal tiers? Couple of days ago we had the luck of getting matched as top tier BB's with Arkensas Beta's on Ocean against Kongo's... We won, I did 125k damage or something like that it was the most fun I ever had in Arkensas Beta ( I did have to admit in chat to the enemy team that they lost because their Kongo's were baddies  ).

 

Variety is good, the only time it would be bad is when you're getting the short stick in back to back games over and over ( and I haven't ever had this happen, and if others post they have I think about that Arkensas game and tell them they should still be able to carry those games every once in awhile ). 

[Kenliero]

Problem is that there is no problem... surely there must be one, right?

[conductiv]

1. capping a class does not solve any balance issues, it just makes them less visible in any particular game.

2. if any class is used excessively, it's generally because that class is slightly stronger then the other options. as people flock to the "statpad/easy" classes. this is common in PvP (and even the majority of PvE) multiplayer games. 

3. perfect balance is a illusion, unless the developers basically carbon copy and reskin a single ship over and over there will be slight variations in performance causing 1 ship (class) to be ever slightly superior, causing it to have the larger numbers. so its definitely not a easy problem to solve, if it can be solved atoll.

[anonym_hqO9wrVAEQYQ]

 

Obviously some usage of the word "fun" that I have not previously encountered.  (With thanks to "The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy")

 

What as opposed to boring as f*** mirrored matches?

[deathcaster]

Cap the number of BBs, and you'll see the number of DDs dropping at once.

 

As it is, by design they want CAs and DDs to be the most common class, and not like it's been for ages, BBs.

 

They do? I wouldn't have guessed that based on how they have been treating them DD's and CA's.

[Vulgarny]

Problem with DD in high tier game is that they are stalling game too much. You want to push forward with BB and some cruisers for some close (10-12 km) combat with enemy? Get punish with wall of torps from enemy DDs. So BB park with bow towards enemy and slug each other from 20km away. DD that can torp from stealth are making game very stall.