Is this justice?

[Ebu34]

 

As you can see the screenshot, we were totaly wrecked cause of 2 DD vs 4DD and tier differences.

 

All we can do against cross torp carpet from all over the place is paying repair bill. Sunked ships which not because of torps,  just get wrecked by enemy BBs when evading torp storm. No one in our team could fired a single decent salvo, because busy to evade torps. Just danced for save our a*s from this torps.

 

Is this ok for you WG? Don't you think exaggerate the buffs and nerfs a little bit? Don't you think is about time to balance DD number like CVs?

 

What is your opinions people? 

 

Thx for spare your time.

[EsaTuunanen]

Torpedo boats would definitely need CV's planes as counter.

Or then gunship DDs...

Despite of having firepower cruisers just aren't best at finding and "bouncing" torpedo boats even at mid tiers.

 

But while Soviet DDs got nerfed higher tier IJN DDs apparently still fire some nukes which can wreck half of gunship DDs guns/modules in one salvo.

So besides enemy CV's planes gunship DDs can get screwed by same ships they're supposed to counter even without getting spotted meaning being focused by other enemy ships.

That might have something to do why there aren't gunship DDs to counter torpedo boats.

 

 

[Aotearas]

DD (or CA/BB for that matter) mirroring isn't quite as necessary as with CVs. As a CV player, you're absolutely boned if you play alone vs two enemy CVs. For any other class of ships, that doesn't hold true.

 

However I would partially agree that some sort of relative balance should be assured and 2 DDs vs 4 DDs is really pushing it, considering how much impact a good DD can have on the battle, or how easily a DD can neutralize another one by just keeping them spotted and denying them the possiblity to do torpedo runs.

 

Imo there should never be more than a one ship difference. 2 vs 3 is manageable, 3 vs 4 is manageable, 4 vs 5 is manageable (albeit already a giant PITA for anything that isn't a DD). But 2 vs 4, 3 vs 5, 4 vs 6 ...

[Myrmix]

To be honest, even CV-mirroring was unecessary. What most people don't understand: you can make an enemy CV nearly useless just in having 2-3 cruisers with AA-skill and everyone sailing in groups..only thing a CV could do reliably would be spotting. But hence most of people just scream for nerf, when they are too stupid to react to approaching planes, WG had to give in.

If you would limit DDs the same way, we can go the full way and mirror every ship...it would destroy diversity and challenge completely.

So, no. Learn to engage the different classes and stop screaming about them in forums, if you got killed again, because you sailed broadside in a straight line.

[Pekoe_Darjeeling]

To be honest, even CV-mirroring was unecessary. What most people don't understand: you can make an enemy CV nearly useless just in having 2-3 cruisers with AA-skill and everyone sailing in groups

 

I don't even play platoons often not to mention cooperating with random players.

[Myrmix]

 

I don't even play platoons often not to mention cooperating with random players.

 

i can tell you, it's a different world to play in a division with your clanmates, but unfortunately players have to organize themselves until now.

Random-teamplay is of course difficult. i'm often left alone if i decide to take one for the team (like tanking and engaging in a BB or suicide-rushing in a nearly dead cruiser with torp-waves to confuse battleships)...or just doing naturally stuff like capping.

I'm afraid this won't change until we have a clan-system in WoWs.

[Vanhal]

Mirroring is absolutely unnecessary. Limiting their number could help though on 8+ tier. Like 3 max.

[Crysantos]

To be honest, even CV-mirroring was unecessary. What most people don't understand: you can make an enemy CV nearly useless just in having 2-3 cruisers with AA-skill and everyone sailing in groups..only thing a CV could do reliably would be spotting. But hence most of people just scream for nerf, when they are too stupid to react to approaching planes, WG had to give in.

If you would limit DDs the same way, we can go the full way and mirror every ship...it would destroy diversity and challenge completely.

So, no. Learn to engage the different classes and stop screaming about them in forums, if you got killed again, because you sailed broadside in a straight line.

 

I disagree... a lot. CV's mirroring is very essential, for the obvious reasons. If you really think one sided CVs would be fair then you haven't played games like that and especially not vs. decent ones. Also not vs. differently tiered CVs and certainly never in high Tiers.

[Ebu34]

To be honest, even CV-mirroring was unecessary. What most people don't understand: you can make an enemy CV nearly useless just in having 2-3 cruisers with AA-skill and everyone sailing in groups..only thing a CV could do reliably would be spotting. But hence most of people just scream for nerf, when they are too stupid to react to approaching planes, WG had to give in.

If you would limit DDs the same way, we can go the full way and mirror every ship...it would destroy diversity and challenge completely.

So, no. Learn to engage the different classes and stop screaming about them in forums, if you got killed again, because you sailed broadside in a straight line.

Just compare your stats with mine and decide again about giving me lesson like sailing straight lines. Your top tier ships at tier7 and total 135 matches with it. You dont know even what am i talking about and wrote in first post.

[RamirezKurita]

Mirroring is unnecessary, the real problem is that the biggest counter to destroyers right now are other destroyers (and I guess aircraft carriers, but they are so heavily nerfed and underplayed in most tiers that they don't really factor into balancing any more). Once they solve that issue, then massed destroyers would lose a lot of their effectiveness.

 

Mirroring is just an incredibly lazy way of balancing games, it's basically saying that something is so unbalanced that literally the only way to balance it is to make sure both sides have the same amount of horrific unbalance. Having forced identical teams simply destroys so much of the strategy in the game, as each team would then basically have identical strengths and weaknesses and so an identical strategy, rather than players having to try to figure out each sides relative strengths and weaknesses and trying to play with them in mind.

[Myrmix]

Just compare your stats with mine and decide again about giving me lesson like sailing straight lines. Your top tier ships at tier7 and total 135 matches with it. You dont know even what am i talking about and wrote in first post.

 

I often see players who should have a lot more experience by their number of games. of course i know the amount of destroyers in t8+ up to t9-matches, but i'm not shy to ask a cruiser if he would support me if i take a specific path...if i get no answer, i stick with the group and avoid sniping and going off alone.

[IsamuKondera]

To be honest, even CV-mirroring was unecessary. What most people don't understand: you can make an enemy CV nearly useless just in having 2-3 cruisers with AA-skill and everyone sailing in groups..only thing a CV could do reliably would be spotting. But hence most of people just scream for nerf, when they are too stupid to react to approaching planes, WG had to give in.

If you would limit DDs the same way, we can go the full way and mirror every ship...it would destroy diversity and challenge completely.

So, no. Learn to engage the different classes and stop screaming about them in forums, if you got killed again, because you sailed broadside in a straight line.

 

we will talk again if you encounter 2 bogues with 2 fighter squadron setup alone with your zuiho...

[RamirezKurita]

 

we will talk again if you encounter 2 bogues with 2 fighter squadron setup alone with your zuiho...

 

Harsh on your little Zuiho, but good luck to the Bogues as they try to pull their weight with only 2 dive bomber squadrons between them for attacking ships meanwhile the Zuiho enjoys having an extra ship on their team and a single good torp run would probably let the Zuiho deal more damage than both Bogues together. I also originally started using fighter setups in my Ryujo so that I would stand a chance of containing multiple enemy carriers, a duty that I no longer need to do because if I ever face double carrier team I will always have my own allied carrier.

[IsamuKondera]

 

Harsh on your little Zuiho, but good luck to the Bogues as they try to pull their weight with only 2 dive bomber squadrons between them for attacking ships meanwhile the Zuiho enjoys having an extra ship on their team and a single good torp run would probably let the Zuiho deal more damage than both Bogues together. I also originally started using fighter setups in my Ryujo so that I would stand a chance of containing multiple enemy carriers, a duty that I no longer need to do because if I ever face double carrier team I will always have my own allied carrier.

 

if they got brain none of my trop bomber would reach their target even once... thx to the fighter alt ability...

 

of course if they are stupid and use 4 for one squad... well then they are doomed...

[RamirezKurita]

 

if they got brain none of my trop bomber would reach their target even once... thx to the fighter alt ability...

 

of course if they are stupid and use 4 for one squad... well then they are doomed...

 

Obviously you can't rely on getting a lucky salvo, but as I said, the Zuiho would also have an additional non-carrier ship on its team. Even if the Zuiho does literally zero damage to enemy ships (which has happened to me in that exact scenario, I was basically reduced to a floating AA platform), I know that a pair of fighter Bogues would struggle to keep up with a single decent Kongo player on damage. The situation favours the Zuiho team even more if it is a T6 or T7 game, as then cruisers with defensive fire start to appear and the Bogues will achieve even less. Air supremacy is nice and all, but sometimes it can be a struggle to take advantage of it enough for it to be worth the price.

[ColonelPete]

Just compare your stats with mine and decide again about giving me lesson like sailing straight lines. Your top tier ships at tier7 and total 135 matches with it. You dont know even what am i talking about and wrote in first post.

 

Statistics are a two edged sword. If you get good results, then there is no reason to complain. You are just irritated that stuff does not work the way you want. Guess what, you are one of 24 players and everyone has different expectations how a match should run.

[red_eye1980]

Limit dds to 5 per team maybe.. and if you have 10 give both teams five, not 6 and 4. But you can go with say 4 and 3. Also try not to put all the americans and russians in the same team. Tier balance not so important with dds as with cvs. Oh and make the russian turrets turn a little bit quicker. The way it is with some ships now, I can either manoeuvre or shoot.but not both. And a dd has to manoeuvre.

[Ebu34]

 

Statistics are a two edged sword. If you get good results, then there is no reason to complain. You are just irritated that stuff does not work the way you want. Guess what, you are one of 24 players and everyone has different expectations how a match should run.

 

Again you have just one Tier 8 ship in single tree with 46 battles in it and its a DD. Again someone is commenting who dont have any experience with high tier BBs whatsoever. Suprise?

 

Maybe in future with your Tier 8 and above BB, good luck when against 4 DD with 10 or 15 torps setup. But for now as you can see you have no idea again.

 

This topic's subject is not me. I want to learn your 'experiences' ( again true experiences) about this  matter and learn your opinion as like other posts. And thx for these posts. Pls don't divert to another way.

 

By the way that's what i am talking about.

 

 

 

Regards.

 

[ColonelPete]

I see your stats, they are fine.

Where is the problem?

[Myrmix]

 

Again you have just one Tier 8 ship in single tree with 46 battles in it and its a DD. Again someone is commenting who dont have any experience with high tier BBs whatsoever. Suprise?

 

Maybe in future with your Tier 8 and above BB, good luck when against 4 DD with 10 or 15 torps setup. But for now as you can see you have no idea again.

 

This topic's subject is not me. I want to learn your 'experiences' ( again true experiences) about this  matter and learn your opinion as like other posts. And thx for these posts. Pls don't divert to another way.

 

By the way that's what i am talking about.

 

 

 

Regards.

 

 

Even tho it's iChase I'm wondering why he didn't asked the cruisers for support. If you know, there could be this many destroyers out there, why don't you ask in chat for cruisers? Also, the rest of the team somehow without any reason retreated from the islands on the eastern side...so i think it was just bad luck/teamplay.

The whole match would be a lot different with a single CV and maybe the DDs would have been countered hard, but atm they are really rare

[Kamikazesushi]

No and no. If you have less DDs or lower tiers, just stay close to cruisers and dont duel. No need to make any changes in this from my point of view. You cant play all games the same way...

[Lieut_Gruber]

I think the current problem is BB blowing up Cruisers too easily. CA are the natural counter of the DD, but they cant sail in front of the BB to counter DD because they get killed so fast. It seems difficult to balance, since we had a problem before BB not being able to damage CA at all, now it went over the top imo.

 

And, most cruiserplayers are idiots, only attacking BB and get sunk fast....

[Blue_Bug]

 

As you can see the screenshot, we were totaly wrecked cause of 2 DD vs 4DD and tier differences.

 

All we can do against cross torp carpet from all over the place is paying repair bill. Sunked ships which not because of torps,  just get wrecked by enemy BBs when evading torp storm. No one in our team could fired a single decent salvo, because busy to evade torps. Just danced for save our a*s from this torps.

 

Is this ok for you WG? Don't you think exaggerate the buffs and nerfs a little bit? Don't you think is about time to balance DD number like CVs?

 

What is your opinions people? 

 

Thx for spare your time.

 

You made the conclusion that this is due to the DD diferences. This might be a wrong conclusion. This happens too when players don't do their job and give the enemy a free win. Most made mistakes are BB's staying behind not covering the CA's. Ca's who rush in without any cover. DD's who take to much risk.

 

If you give your enemie DD's to much freedom this can happen. It is also posible that the DD players where just great players. Without a replay we can judge what happened. If on top a few BB's ended nobody would complain.

[anonym_hqO9wrVAEQYQ]

I had a tier 6 game the other night. We had 2 fail platoons with an Emeden in 1 and a Chukama ( or whatever its called)  with a 3 to 4 ratio of DD's.  The 4 on the other team included a platoon of 3. I thought we were screwed. But we ended up with a cracking fight and we won

  I don't want mirrored matches as sometimes the imbalance makes for great games. 

[Ebu34]

 

You made the conclusion that this is due to the DD diferences. This might be a wrong conclusion. This happens too when players don't do their job and give the enemy a free win. Most made mistakes are BB's staying behind not covering the CA's. Ca's who rush in without any cover. DD's who take to much risk.

 

If you give your enemie DD's to much freedom this can happen. It is also posible that the DD players where just great players. Without a replay we can judge what happened. If on top a few BB's ended nobody would complain.

Actually none of them was happened. We are all was pack. And CAs did everything to protect us. None of us had chance to do anything meaningful. Like i said, all of us was busy to evade this cross torps. They were even worst condition then us. Tight spread cross torps with stealth buff, even CAs couldnt escape.