Strafing and friendly fire

[DaWyrm]

As I have begun to truly appreciate the strafing run for fighters I've come to realize that it has one major draw-back: It kills friendly aircraft as well.

 

I've seen nothing that indicates it causes friendly fire when using it or in the help and you don't seem to get fined for shooting down friendly aircraft. But I have wiped entire fighter-squadrons for my allies when commencing a strafing-run on dogfighting forces.

 

I think this needs to be addressed. especially considering how long a strafing-run is and that it cannot at all be aborted once initiated. I've seen friendlies head into the space I know my fighters will move through after I initiate the strafe just to see them get shot up my me.

[Slargmann]

Would be nice if there was an indicator visible to your allies, yes.

[gr0pah]

No, that it's non-friendly is part of the equation when deciding to use it. You have to calculate on the fly if the losses to friendly (own or allied) aircraft is worth the potential damage you can inflict on enemy planes. It's not supposed to be a no-brainer. If this aspect was changed the whole mechanic would have to be changed.

[Shadeshots]

Thats the idea of the strafe, you dont get to choose who it kills just the location, i dont see any issues with it, players just need to be careful with and pick their targets accordingly. If you was to change it to only kill enemies then it would just be a game killer for the person thats getting strafed, or yourself if someone did it in return since fighters once engaged, stay engaged. 

[Slargmann]

Thats the idea of the strafe, you dont get to choose who it kills just the location, i dont see any issues with it, players just need to be careful with and pick their targets accordingly. If you was to change it to only kill enemies then it would just be a game killer for the person thats getting strafed, or yourself if someone did it in return since fighters once engaged, stay engaged. 

 

Sure but currently there's no indication to your ally that a strafing run is taking place. You'd think that would be relevant to inform.

[Shadeshots]

 

Sure but currently there's no indication to your ally that a strafing run is taking place. You'd think that would be relevant to inform.

 

The indicator yes, the change in who gets hit by a strafe, absolutely not. More to the point is why you would want to strafe when your allies are there in the first place thats equivalent to you launching torps at his broadside or shooting him with your guns on purpose. 

[gr0pah]

The indicator yes, the change in who gets hit by a strafe, absolutely not. More to the point is why you would want to strafe when your allies are there in the first place thats equivalent to you launching torps at his broadside or shooting him with your guns on purpose. 

There are often very good reasons to strafe allied [engaged] fighters. If the cost/gain is right, I'll happily strafe - with allied planes as collateral - and I expect my allied CV to do the same. The trick is to know when it's the correct move or not.

[Shadeshots]

There are often very good reasons to strafe allied [engaged] fighters. If the cost/gain is right, I'll happily strafe - with allied planes as collateral - and I expect my allied CV to do the same.

 

Then im sorry imo your not a very good CV, there is plenty of times in a match you can strafe without costing me my aircraft. I wouldnt strafe my allies because every aircraft counts. Thats a ridiculous thing to do and say at best. 

[T0byJug]

Shade_UK, on 21 January 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

Thats the idea of the strafe, you dont get to choose who it kills just the location, i dont see any issues with it, players just need to be careful with and pick their targets accordingly. If you was to change it to only kill enemies then it would just be a game killer for the person thats getting strafed, or yourself if someone did it in return since fighters once engaged, stay engaged. 

Sure but currently there's no indication to your ally that a strafing run is taking place. You'd think that would be relevant to inform.

 

 

Of cause it will kill friendly aircraft.. Its an Area effect weapon! To me it was obviase at start! Granted it would do no harm to warn people in the action description. As for the warning. it would not help as there is just about nothing the friendly planes could do anyway if they are stuck in combat. and if they are not Well then its players fault much in the same way as Blue on Blue(or Green on Green I suppose) Torp kills.

 

As for it not damaging freindly planes! this would make the action SOOOOOO OP. all players would do is use one or 2 Flights to lock enemy in place than strafe!. I have done this in many games! 1 of my squadron being shot at by 2 fighter squadrons. I cant save them as they will almost defiantly die but by strafing with 1 of my fighters i kill most of the enemy planes! lose half or even all of one of my squadrons to kill 12 enemy planes Totally worth it.

In fact i think my record is 15kills (3 american fighter squadrons attacking 1 of mine)

[gr0pah]

Then im sorry imo your not a very good CV, there is plenty of times in a match you can strafe without costing me my aircraft. I wouldnt strafe my allies because every aircraft counts. Thats a ridiculous thing to do and say at best. 

Then I'm sorry to say that you are wrong. Of course there are plenty of times when you can strafe without costing any aircraft; have I said otherwise anywhere?? If you can't understand why it's efficient for your team to nuke 3 USN fighter squads engaged with 1 allied IJN fighter squad (also nuking that one), then you're not a very good CV. 

 

See also what T0byjug wrote above. But as I like my CV opponents to be dumb, I should probably not educate you any more.

[T0byJug]

 

Then im sorry imo your not a very good CV, there is plenty of times in a match you can strafe without costing me my aircraft. I wouldnt strafe my allies because every aircraft counts. Thats a ridiculous thing to do and say at best. 

 

I think he means in certain situations. I did it just a few days ago! allied fighters in combat out numberd and almost defiantly dead! i could assist with my one squadron available but because of his losses we would still be outnumbered and probably lose! So i strafed killed his ramaning 3 planes but killed something like 10 enemy fighters and then killed the last 2 for no losses. result 12 enemy killed for lose of 3 planes. if i had done normal combat would more likely been 9 planes lost for about 8 enemy killed.

[gr0pah]

 

I think he means in certain situations. I did it just a few days ago! allied fighters in combat out numberd and almost defiantly dead! i could assist with my one squadron available but because of his losses we would still be outnumbered and probably lose! So i strafed killed his ramaning 3 planes but killed something like 10 enemy fighters and then killed the last 2 for no losses. result 12 enemy killed for lose of 3 planes. if i had done normal combat would more likely been 9 planes lost for about 8 enemy killed.

 

You are quite right good Sir.

 

I have a very similar example. The other day my allied CV had one squad torpedo bombers  - with only 2 planes remaining - returning, while being shot at by 2 fighter squads. It was going to die in the nearest 10 seconds. I strafed it, killing the 2 torpedo bombers (that was going to die anyway) and ALL enemy planes. I would expect my allied CV to do exactly the same to me, as it gave us both air superiority.

[Shadeshots]

 

 

Of cause it will kill friendly aircraft.. Its an Area effect weapon! To me it was obviase at start! Granted it would do no harm to warn people in the action description. As for the warning. it would not help as there is just about nothing the friendly planes could do anyway if they are stuck in combat. and if they are not Well then its players fault much in the same way as Blue on Blue(or Green on Green I suppose) Torp kills.

 

As for it not damaging freindly planes! this would make the action SOOOOOO OP. all players would do is use one or 2 Flights to lock enemy in place than strafe!. I have done this in many games! 1 of my squadron being shot at by 2 fighter squadrons. I cant save them as they will almost defiantly die but by strafing with 1 of my fighters i kill most of the enemy planes! lose half or even all of one of my squadrons to kill 12 enemy planes Totally worth it.

In fact i think my record is 15kills (3 american fighter squadrons attacking 1 of mine)

 

Im not the one who has a problem with it killing allies or suggesting it be changed to not doing that to allied planes..... you literally took what i posted and changed it to how you want to see it instead of reading what i said first. 

 

Imo there is never any reason to strafe your own allies there is plenty of opportunities in game to strafe without having to cost your allied CV his aircraft. I never have had to strafe allies engaged because i either help him if i can or leave him, if i cant. Sure theres situations but i myself dont. Each to their own i guess. 

 

Hope you both are never on my team in any ship type i dont particular want to be sunk by my own team (if your not in CV) or lose all my planes.

 

Edit: Asoon as i finish replying to an earlyer post theres 4 more in now my post looks really out of place lol -.-  

[T0byJug]

 

Then im sorry imo your not a very good CV, there is plenty of times in a match you can strafe without costing me my aircraft. I wouldnt strafe my allies because every aircraft counts. Thats a ridiculous thing to do and say at best. 

 

Shade!! would suggest you check player stats before making comments. Winrate of  is gr0pah high 50s low 60s % on all his carriers just about! that would suggest pretty good. Defiantly better than you or I. Hills Damage and aircraft kills better as well on most of CV's you both have

[Slargmann]

 

 

Of cause it will kill friendly aircraft.. Its an Area effect weapon! To me it was obviase at start! Granted it would do no harm to warn people in the action description. As for the warning. it would not help as there is just about nothing the friendly planes could do anyway if they are stuck in combat. and if they are not Well then its players fault much in the same way as Blue on Blue(or Green on Green I suppose) Torp kills.

 

The point of having an indicator is that you can avoid entering an area under a strafing run.

 

I agree that it should cause collateral damage, and I've never hinted anything else.

[T0byJug]

 

You are quite right good Sir.

 

I have a very similar example. The other day my allied CV had one squad torpedo bombers  - with only 2 planes remaining - returning, while being shot at by 2 fighter squads. It was going to die in the nearest 10 seconds. I strafed it, killing the 2 torpedo bombers (that was going to die anyway) and ALL enemy planes. I would expect my allied CV to do exactly the same to me, as it gave us both air superiority.

Ive done worse! killed 2 Tier 8 squadrons by purposely letting them catch one if mine then straffing the combat! it was the only way i could win a fureball with higher tier planes. 

[Teppa]

I would like to have an indicator for strafing runs, too. I like the skill it needs to arrange it properly and the pleasure if it works out, but i also fear the potential of abuse to kill ally planes. If there were an indicator i could at least try to dodge if teammates try to strafe me.

 

Maybe there should also be some kind of penalty if you keep killing more ally then enemy planes, aka becoming pink (or some other color to show you are misbehaving in Carriers) and then start to lose your own planes for every ally you shoot down, maybe even potentially increasing the more often you do it. Additionally put some credit fines along so it discourages griefers. This is particularly important on lower tiers where you have little reserve planes and where i would assume most of the team killers are.

 

I had a situation yesterday where I in Hiryu was dogfighting a Ryujo squad 2 vs 1, easily winning. When there was only one enemy plane left, suddenly an ally Independence decided to strafe, kill 6 of my planes and the remainig Ryujo fighter. No idea if it was on purpose or if we just was bad/an idiot. If i had an indication he set up a strafing run i would have tired to at least get my fighters out of line of fire.

[gr0pah]

Then im sorry imo your not a very good CV, there is plenty of times in a match you can strafe without costing me my aircraft. I wouldnt strafe my allies because every aircraft counts. Thats a ridiculous thing to do and say at best. 

 

Shade!! would suggest you check player stats before making comments. Winrate of  is gr0pah high 50s low 60s % on all his carriers just about! that would suggest pretty good. Defiantly better than you or I. Hills Damage and aircraft kills better as well on most of CV's you both have

 

 

 

But as I like my CV opponents to be dumb, I should probably not educate you any more.

[Shadeshots]

 

Shade!! would suggest you check player stats before making comments. Winrate of  is gr0pah high 50s low 60s % on all his carriers just about! that would suggest pretty good. Defiantly better than you or I. Hills Damage and aircraft kills better as well on most of CV's you both have

 

The Stats argument, why does it always resort to this, its just the low of the low and if you need to bring stats into everything then im not interested in talking to you because its a never ending loop of 'im better than you are' like a child which is pathetic.

 

I dont have high CV stats because i play them ONLY for daily wins or a change of gameplay, I main DD's/BB Equally since your so obsessed with stats you can see that from my profile.

 

I also said IMO (IMO = In MY OPINION) so stats has nothing to do or no bearing because thats my own opinion which you dont have to agree or like, and MY opinion is there should be absolutely no reason to strafe allied planes since you get plenty of opportunities to do so in game. 

 

With that out of the way...

 

On the subject of Indicator could be useful but generally there isnt enough time if you saw one to react.

 

 

[Slargmann]

If you're asserting that someone is a poor CV player and their stats are in the high 30% better than yours, I think it's absolutely relevant.

 

Results speak volumes.

 

"Never strafe if your allies risk damage, period." = 40s

 

"Strafe if the cost/benefit ratio favours allies." = 60s

 

 

[Shadeshots]

If you're asserting that someone is a poor CV player and their stats are in the high 30% better than yours, I think it's absolutely relevant.

 

Results speak volumes.

 

"Never strafe if your allies risk damage, period." = 40s

 

"Strafe if the cost/benefit ratio favours allies." = 60s

 

 

 

i said, IN MY OPINION. 

 

Jesus im not here to teach you how to read, lol

 

Goes to show really what this playerbase is becoming. Anyways since its going down this road.. moving on...

 

 

[T0byJug]

 

The Stats argument, why does it always resort to this, its just the low of the low and if you need to bring stats into everything then im not interested in talking to you because its a never ending loop of 'im better than you are' like a child which is pathetic.

 

I also said IMO (IMO = In MY OPINION) so stats has nothing to do or no bearing because thats my own opinion which you dont have to agree or like, and MY opinion is there should be absolutely no reason to strafe allied planes since you get plenty of opportunities to do so in game. 

 

 

 

 

Stats argument is relevant when you make comments saying some one s not very good! Even if you say IMO. 

 

using IN MY OPINION douse not Change anything.

 

Saying you don't agree with his play stile ok but saying he is not very good makes stats relevant

 

[Ace_Raptor]

 

As others have said, it all depends on the situation. The chances of winning against a team with one/two air superiority setup(s) is slim if your team only have few fighters to counter them, so it´s best to make use of them to take down as many enemy fighters as possible and making it easier to focus on the enemy ships instead.

 

[gr0pah]

If you're asserting that someone is a poor CV player and their stats are in the high 30% better than yours, I think it's absolutely relevant.

 

Results speak volumes.

 

"Never strafe if your allies risk damage, period." = 40s

 

"Strafe if the cost/benefit ratio favours allies." = 60s

I was going to go with a longer reply, but thank you Slargmann for the the perfect summary. <3

 

@shady_uk

1. I don't bring up stats in discussions, this is actually the first time ever I've done it; and I did it because you asserted I was a bad CV player so you could strengthen your position.

2. I don't go strafe my own or allied planes nilly-willy, I do a cost/benefit calculation on the fly and if I find it favorable I act on it. And as implied by cost/benefit the end result must favor the TEAM (i.e. other CV too) and not my personal plane killing stats; because otherwise my WR would go down, correct?

 

EDIT:

Saying you don't agree with his play stile ok but saying he is not very good makes stats relevant

^ this. You can't say "What I'm saying is correct, and if you say otherwise it's because you're not very good", and then when stats show you to be the worse player say "Lame to use stats! Bohoo playerbase something something salty". If you don't agree with how I strafe, that's fine. But don't assert I'm a bad player because of how I strafe.

 

[ilhilh]

I'm with gr0pah - there are situations where I will barrage attack friendly planes be they my own or an allies.  I don't take the decision lightly but when the enemy kills far outweigh the friendly ones then it can really tip the balance.

 

For example, if allies 1 squad of IJN fighters are getting beat on by 2 USN squad then the ally planes are dead.  Sitting there watching for 30 seconds until the USN planes kill them doesn't change the outcome.  All it actually does is then allow the USN squads to potentially evade your barrage.