Ranked needs to be less DD friendly

[Syrchalis]

Shatter, North, Atlantic, all those maps are INSANELY DD friendly with their incredible amount of islands.

 

DDs already are the prime force in ranked due to caps being more important than anything else. But with caps always being in absolutely tight areas where DDs can ambush any ship, it just gets ridiculous.

 

More DD-hostile maps should be made for ranked, to counter their really over-the-top importance in ranked. Then we might stop seeing 4 of them per team, dominating everything around the caps.

[rocknrobot1]

DD-hostile maps?

What kind of map should that be, honestly? No islands? Everyone will cry because "no cover"... more caps? less caps? New gamemode? Just plain team deathmatch? Then again, which kind of map?

 

Go ahead and give WG an idea, maybe they and the people like it and WG implements it.

 

DDs cap. Cruisers support DDs and BBs. Go and support YOUR DD teammates. Do it right, problem solved.

[Syrchalis]

It's not my job to give them ideas. I don't work as a game designer for them.

[Kartoffelmos]

I will agree with Shatter, but that's mostly due to the less-than-optimal spawning locations and the fact that the centre cap is difficult to get in any ship bigger than a destroyer, but otherwise I quite like the current map rotation.

 

If anything, bad players (in any ship really) is much more of a problem. Just had a game where two destroyers and a(n?) Atago decided to chase the enemy carrier (corner of the map) while an Amagi and myself (also in a Atago)were forced to keep the enemy team from getting our cap. Naturally, I was focused to death, but the Amagi managed to finish off the remaining targets.

[Kazomir]

I gave an idea some time ago that DDs should not be able to cap some bases or they could, but slower.

[vash_hu]

Lol, as a dd captain, I like Ocean the most Seriously (it's the most predictable as a dd).

[AgarwaenME]

No, ranked (and the game in general) needs to be less easy for BBs. People play DDs to counter BBs, who can't be countered by CVs at that rank (in the current state of the game, CVs are a major DD counter even) and while a BB might be able to get dropped fairly rapidly by multiple CAs focusing it, that's far less likely to happen in ranked. CAs don't really have many tools for defeating DDs unless you have a CV or friendly DD to spot, and are way too easily killed off by BBs.

 

Thus asking to have DDs nerfed, directly or indirectly,  is just another round in the "nerf everything that threathens BB hegemony" roundabout, and does nothing to address the real balance problems.

[Kenliero]

Lol, as a dd captain, I like Ocean the most Seriously (it's the most predictable as a dd).

 

I agree. The more open map, the better it actually is for DD, specially for IJN and for invisifiring, where you can just keep the enemy in specific distance all than time... islands actually mess around with keeping enemies going straight lines and keeping the "perfect" distance... We just managed to decrease the amount of times we get the ocean, so why bring that back?

[thepasty]

Rather than the maps... they need to make CAs better DD hunters, so make CAs see DDs from further away, same goes for torps... do something!!

[Vanhal]

Thus asking to have DDs nerfed, directly or indirectly,  is just another round in the "nerf everything that threathens BB hegemony" roundabout, and does nothing to address the real balance problems.

 

You are accusing Syrchalis of lobbying for BB? That's good one.

[GulvkluderGuld]

Lol, as a dd captain, I like Ocean the most Seriously (it's the most predictable as a dd).

 

Completely agree. I hate islands in my Gunboats.

They obstruct spotting and makes things like suddenly spotting a Mogami @ 2,5 km possible (when I leave smoke).  

 

Rather than the maps... they need to make CAs better DD hunters, so make CAs see DDs from further away, same goes for torps... do something!!

 

Make CVs better so they are played more in Ranked?

CVs are the only real counter to DDs imo. Outside Teamwork, of course!

[thepasty]

 

 

 

Completely agree. I hate islands in my Gunboats.

They obstruct spotting and makes things like suddenly spotting a Mogami @ 2,5 km possible (when I leave smoke).  

 

 

Make CVs better so they are played more in Ranked?

CVs are the only real counter to DDs imo. Outside Teamwork, of course!

 

CVs are as per current game mechanics.

 

CAs are supposed to be the counter to DDs? Give them the tools to do the job properly.

[AgarwaenME]

 

You are accusing Syrchalis of lobbying for BB? That's good one.

 

No, but that's the effect it would have on the game. Do try to read.

[havaduck]

 

CAs are supposed to be the counter to DDs? Give them the tools to do the job properly.

 

... and dont die to basically two hits of unavoidable return fire from the inevitable incoming torp walls.

 

That! Right now cruiser counter absolutely nothing in this game and WG is fine with that, like they told indirectly.

 

 

[Kenliero]

I believe easiest way to make game work in high levels, is to remove "wall of torpedoes" and change them into "Minekaze" torpedoes with similar reload/range(maybe 10km range) and increased damage.

 

EDIT: ok, that is a bit off topic, not so much about rankeds... but it would buff cruisers...

[GulvkluderGuld]

 

CVs are as per current game mechanics.

 

CAs are supposed to be the counter to DDs? Give them the tools to do the job properly.

 

CVs are still basically extinct, but I still remember when they were OP and more common, how they made the life of all DDs miseable (planes everywhere, spotting torps and dds alike).

 

CAs will never get the tools to always find any dd - that would make CAs way to OP - but I could agree to some ruddershift buff to navigate torp walls or control of a floatplane with limited range (say 15 kms).

I think the problem is still that CA cant hunt dds because they get obliterated by BBs if the BB so much as sneeze the CAs way, not spotting the DD (which imo is NOT a CA function, but a CV function).

[thepasty]

OP CVs was a pain in the ars for everyone, not just DDs

[havaduck]

 

I think the problem is still that CA cant hunt dds because they get obliterated by BBs if the BB so much as sneeze the CAs way, not spotting the DD (which imo is NOT a CA function, but a CV function).

 

If thats the case I rather have some AI bot planes flying randomly around the battlefield because CV player NEVER spot a DD unless by accident or when they are trying to actively kill them.

 

Its insulting how much of an advantage every other class of ship has over a cruiser in this game - esp high tier:

 

Carrier: cant hunt, cant shoot down, cant hide, cant outmanoeuvre, cant survive if they are determined and if they choose they can circle you - leading one around like a dog on the leash or the just fly just over you and drop from the other side.

Destroyer: cant see, cant hunt, cant dodge their torps even with the bow pointed roughly at them because your ship is so fu<king unwieldy, and if they chose the can just spot you till a random BB shell takes you out. It takes a lot of shells to bring them down and if you would be able to nail one they can just put up smoke and run.

BB: cant damage effectively, cant outrun, cant hide and destroys you from every angle from every distance; random either extremely tight or trollish wide dispersion make sure of that.

 

 

remember when DD got their citadel removed because everything was one or two shoting and citadeling them because they couldnt dodge every single shell? Guess what .... The only class in this game that gets one or two shotted again and again and again is the cruiser.

 

this is how it looks like when you spot a incoming torp wall: aaaaaaaand its at hit allready. (I am fairly sure the wall is actually wider, I just cant see them all...) (s) Jeez that Vigilance really paid of. At least I can now pound them DDs in submission with multiple HE citadells. (/s)

 

 

Roon behind me died btw, thats how much it is worth to get an "early warning", with those cruiser rudder shifts and turning radius. 

remember that?

 

 

Destroyers just dont give a shi7 about cruisers. 1 torp hit, youre crippled, two you are dead or about to die and even their guns are enough to finish you, while they continue to merrily comb the sea with torps like a true water versions of spaceballs ...

 

 

And before someone tries that: "Oh its a team game ...." Tell me again what kind of "team" effort is needed to reliably damage/cripple/kill a cruiser?

 

 

But hey its a WG game. Enjoy it as long as you can before turning away in disgust, just remember to make it a moral obligation to spent as little money as humanly possible.

[RamirezKurita]

Rather than the maps... they need to make CAs better DD hunters, so make CAs see DDs from further away, same goes for torps... do something!!

 

They already have the dedicated tool for DD hunting - the Hydroacoustic Search. The only problem is that it is rubbish, and far too weak to actually do its job right now.

 

I have said many times that Hydroacoustic Search needs some massive buffs to actually make cruisers consider taking it, rather than every single cruiser at T6 or above just taking Defensive Fire on autopilot without even thinking about it. That way they wouldn't need any fancy passive buffs, they would have an effective active ability, it would also provide an indirect buff to carriers as not every single cruiser would have Defensive Fire.

[AwesomeChicken]

How about giving Cruisers both Comsumables instead of a decision between them?

[RamirezKurita]

How about giving Cruisers both Comsumables instead of a decision between them?

 

It would give players less choices, making gameplay overly streamlined and less strategic as suddenly cruisers would have too many answers to potential threats to ever be balanced, not to mention how cruisers already have the most consumable slots in the game. Having a one-size-fits-all escort than can fend off basically everything would run the risk of either making them too perfect as escorts for battleships (thereby forcing destroyers and carriers out of the game), or would simply leave them spread too thin to actually deal with any threat but simply mediocre against everything, either way it's pretty unhealthy for the game.

[creamgravy]

Speaking as a destroyer captain, Concealment System Modification 1 is the biggest problem.

 

Adding 10% warps the game around the stealth mechanic. It's just downright oppressive with the tier 5 commander skill.

 

 

[Spithas]

The over the top importance of DDs in Season 3 has mostly to do with the fact that the CAP points give you 9 points per tick.

 

It means that if you DDs fail (cap too late or not at all while the enemy caps at least 1 cap) the match is almost certainly lost as by the time your BBs or CAs manage to kill the enemies the other side will have such a huge point advantage that is very hard to overcome.

 

It also makes it very hard to carry it with CA or BB as you can't patiently try to win by killing because every tick hurts... you are forced to go full aggressive and with incompetent DDs on your side going full aggressive means you will most likely fail fast.

 

9 Points per tick was a very bad choice from WG for Ranked.

[AwesomeChicken]

Well Cruisers are supposed to be multi-purpose vessels and giving them both consumables wouldn´t make them OP. It just gives you the ability to react to different situations and there are still the immense cooldown and the limited number of charges for them (and it offers another balancing factor between the different cruiser lines).

 

And entering a battle without Carriers and you got the AA-Consumable ... that pretty sucks.

 

[Barkyro]

I will only say this. DD captains finally get a game mode where they can actually have an impact on the outcome and yet we still outrage about it :/. And no offense I have been in games where I am the only DD just as I have been in games where I am the only CA. Has anyone seen just one BB per team??? like ever????