WoWs has no physics engine...

[FizzlePopBerryTwist]

Hi there.

 

Well... after playing for a while, there was something that kept bothering me: the controls. 

Pushing left or right and power a bit the engine once in a while...yeh - how could you screw that one up?

 

Well... how about making the movement static?

 

THIS is how its supposed to work, if you move in different speeds/angles:

 

In a few words:

- if you drive slow: you get a small turn circle

- if you drive fast: you get a big turn circle

 

If you ever driven pretty much anything, you know how that works. 

No matter if was a bike, car, truck, ship, plane... - even if you are on foot - you will notice this effect.

 

Its physics. Thats how the world - and most of the universe, works!

This effect is called: centrifugal force - something, that you wont find in WoWS!

 

How i can be so sure WoWS doesnt has it? - see attachements or try it your self.

No matter how fast you turn, your ship will ALWAYS follow the exact same circle!

 

Some might get mislead in bigger ships, due to the "rudder shift time", which will make the bow a bit larger at first... but once that rudder is in place: no matter if you power up or down the engine... you end on the exact same point, where you started.

 

I seen it to often during the matches and even tested it (see attached screenshots) during battle - pulled 2 circles. One with full speed. One with 1/4 speed.

Both times i came back to the excact same spot.

- My first round should let me crash into the iland...

- or my second attempt should leave me with a lot more space in between...

... but nope, nothing of that sort.

 

Especially on ships as big like battleships, should feel it the most... Bismark for example has supposedly 41.700 TONS on paper... - but NO MASS ingame?

The given "turn cicle", which you find in each "shipdescription" should be replaced with "minimum and maximum" turn circle or just the an average value

 

Why should we want that?

 

First of all, it feels a hell of a lot better. Right now its like driving a small toy car, especially if you try to get unstuck. As soon ur rudder is shifted, you can give full speed ahead and it doesnt matter. You still ram/avoid what ever you aim at. It feels incredible stiff and forces you to rethink everything you learned about how a thing is supposed to work. (cause the game is simply wrong)

 

[ps. i want feel the weight of my battleships, as much i want to feel the weight of my Tanks... - otherwise i play with paperboats in my bathtub]

 

Second, a skilled driver can use that slowing down / speeding up to get a lot faster/easier trough obsticles (like ilands/icebergs/other ships) 

Getting slower can make you turn a lot sharper than you are used to. Speeding up might pushes you that little bit further out to avoid a torpedo or incoming fire. 

 

If you played "World of Tanks" for long enough, you might remember the old times, when tanks sat at 45°+ angles and didn't slide. (Erlenberg!)

Now you cant do that anymore... and if you find somebody dumb enough to try... - will drown or crash to your amusement!

 

The driving feels a lot better, rewards knowing your terrain / vehicle / speed... and allows for new tatcics! 

 

So i hope WoWS get some realistic physic added to it, because right now... its pretty much a WoT Beta

(yeye the game is young, but not the devs... not the engine... and not the other games out there, which all consider this kinda crapsince the Playstation 1 game "overboard" :/ )

 

I figure it wasn't an essential / critical part, since players were to blown away by the pretty water and the game had to be done. After all, all of that costs a load of "premium ships" (aka $$$)

 

... i just cant image that after all that dumbing down (menus in particular and choice of ammunition/ consumeables) - WoWS can hold up, as soon if there are games coming out that do that kinda stuff.

 

WoWS is not the only ship game in existence.

- Navyfield 1 (went offline a year ago)

- Navyfield 2 

- Steel Ocean**

- EDIT: Naval Action (steam: early access...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igGgBlf2yus#t=3m has waves/weather)

- EDIT: Blackwave (kickstarter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocQDOEnFlXY you need a real crew)

- Battlestations Pacific/Midway (not mmo)

- Warthunder also will add ships at some point * < which probably will be the biggest issue for Wargaming... (do i have to mention the "Warplanes disaster" they put out as "counter"?)

*(my guess is 1~2 years from now and i will sure try it out)

 

Just saying: there are tons of examples.... a lot of stuff that will show up at some point, if we know it or not... - having such a huge/scuessful game will lure more ppl out from under a rock** and in the end, the best game wins.

 

... and since i think WoWS got the potential to be one of them (you know, the best)... there has more to be done, than pretty graphics on the long run.

 

(just image wot in Beta status, versus games like AW / WT... - thats where you end up, if you dont keep pushing forward.

Games like WT/AW came out in states, that matched or even outdistanced WoT in some regards... be it performance or gameplaywise... ~ hack... WG is about to re-do the WoT artillery system this year... pretty much how AW has it. 

I really dont care if you "copy" features or such, since thats how gaming works. Otherwise everything would be a "Doom Clone" - at the end of the day, the game has to be fun in order to be succesful = which means we can keep playing it... the circle is closed... (thanks to the right centrifugal forces applied^^)

 

with that said,

have fun sinking o7

 

 

[Linushg]

Yep, i feel phyisics are needed. It has made WoT so much better (ive played since 2011 and back then there was no physics, you clould jump off a cliff that was 50 meter high and survive with no dmg taken ).

Circle is only one thing that i miss. We need diffrent weather and big waves that make the boats roll. This game got so much potential if they could add some stuff that everyone want.

[Nechrom]

Wait what? This is not how it is in-game at all.

How long has it been since you played the game?

[IamTroublemaker]

Wth. I am sure the turning circle does get smaller if you slow down. I've been in so many situations where I was about to ram an island while turning and slowing down helped me not to ram it.

[allex27]

yep in the paste i used to turn at max speed and many times i crashed into islands , after a while i observed that if i slow down i can turn without crashing in islands ,so this is already implemented in game

 

[praetor_jax]

Eh... ships do have a smaller turning circle with lower speed. And they also drift when turning at high speed. Pretty sure about that.

[rafparis]

yep, reducing speed to 3/4 reduces greatly the circle for example.

So it's working as intended, do you have any videos to proove your theory?

[_Flyto_]

Well, there are official videos, FAQs, etc stating that the turning circle does not decrease at low speed. I certainly haven't noticed it decrease (although if you haven't started turning, you travel less distance in the rudder shift time, so going slower does make it easier to avoid islands. The slight sideways drift that ships have at high speed may also contribute).

 

Yes, this is very odd. I'd love it if things were realistic, and in particular if different sea states affected different ships differently - not necessarily making aiming hard, but slowing small ships, affecting visibility for ships with low mastheads, that sort of thing.

[EmilyFara]

The thing that annoys me is that engine power has no effect.

Hard rudder + half ahead for a couple of seconds should result in turning on the spot without moving forward. Moving backwards isnt affected by the rudder in reality. Going back = no maneuvering.

Giving stop order should stop the engine and not the ship. Stopping the ship would be done by shifting rudder or reverse engine direction.

 

I could make much better maneuvers with rl physics then with these 'physics'

[Nechrom]

Well, there are official videos, FAQs, etc stating that the turning circle does not decrease at low speed. I certainly haven't noticed it decrease (although if you haven't started turning, you travel less distance in the rudder shift time, so going slower does make it easier to avoid islands. The slight sideways drift that ships have at high speed may also contribute).

 

Yes, this is very odd. I'd love it if things were realistic, and in particular if different sea states affected different ships differently - not necessarily making aiming hard, but slowing small ships, affecting visibility for ships with low mastheads, that sort of thing.

 

I don't know what to tell you except that you're wrong.

They implemented speed dependent turning circles some time during the end of the CBT if I recall correctly.

[SkybuckFlying]

Low FPS might cause larger circles. The left/right presses might come in slower or so... and might take longer to go into effect.

 

So for maximum turning efficiency... use q/e to set it at maximum turning speed.

 

[LilJumpa]

Am I the only one who thinks it hilarious that the OP uses a Car race simulator Video to show how a turning circle of a Battleships is supposed to be?

 

here OP , read

 

http://shipsbusiness.com/turning-circle.html

 

http://blog.worldofwarships.com/full-speed-ahead/

[Foehamster419]

I'm not great at physics or anything but I am pretty sure a racecar on a racetrack behaves a little differently than a ship going through water =x

[indycar]

beta tester and you notice this now ???

[Ashaltiriak]

Of course you end up in the same spot. Think about it, eventually you will always end up in the same spot, even if you use only 1% rudder. The difference is that the circle is smaller when you are slower, and bigger when you are faster.

[praetor_jax]

Low FPS might cause larger circles. The left/right presses might come in slower or so... and might take longer to go into effect.

 

So for maximum turning efficiency... use q/e to set it at maximum turning speed.

 

 

This - i ve used this from the beginning. Only thing you need to practice is not to forget you re turning and remember to reset your rudder in advance

[xCaptainObviousx]

Yep, i feel phyisics are needed. It has made WoT so much better (ive played since 2011 and back then there was no physics, you clould jump off a cliff that was 50 meter high and survive with no dmg taken ).

 

False: Before they added physics to WoT you couldn't drive off a cliff at all, you just got stuck on the edge; It allowed you to hang over the edge of a cliff to fire straight down at the top of the enemy. 

The first weeks after physics were introduced were total chaos, with people falling to their death all game long.

[Kazomir]

 

False: Before they added physics to WoT you couldn't drive off a cliff at all, you just got stuck on the edge; It allowed you to hang over the edge of a cliff to fire straight down at the top of the enemy. 

The first weeks after physics were introduced were total chaos, with people falling to their death all game long.

 

Yep. Also there was no drifting as your tank was literraly glued to the ground and tanks couldnt push each other.  Thus was born the 'maus trap' where 4 loltraktors would ram a maus from each side and leave it immobilised forever. Those were the days *sheds a manly tear*

[Sander93]

They implemented speed dependent turning circles some time during the end of the CBT if I recall correctly.

 

I thought they did too, although it depends on ship shape IIRC. Big and wide ships will turn tighter on low speeds while long and sleek ships need speed to turn fast. I can't entirely remember though, but I'd swear it was in the patch notes once. 

[MaxxyNL]

And still.... World of Warships is not a simulation game, and never will be.

 

[Devantejah]

What?

[BrushWolf2]

Wth. I am sure the turning circle does get smaller if you slow down. I've been in so many situations where I was about to ram an island while turning and slowing down helped me not to ram it.

 

yep in the paste i used to turn at max speed and many times i crashed into islands , after a while i observed that if i slow down i can turn without crashing in islands ,so this is already implemented in game

 

Tighter turning is implemented in the game although since this isn't a simulation it is done is a simplified manner.

[daki]

 

 

 

 

Am I the only one who thinks it hilarious that the OP uses a Car race simulator Video to show how a turning circle of a Battleships is supposed to be?

 

here OP , read

 

http://shipsbusiness.com/turning-circle.html

 

http://blog.worldofwarships.com/full-speed-ahead/

 

ZombieFX maybe you should do a bit more "research" before claiming something is "unrealistic". It would also help to use for research the ships and not cars

To quote from http://blog.worldofwarships.com/full-speed-ahead/

...

World War II ships didn’t have active traverse thrust devices, and in fact could be operated only with the help of a common rudder, or blade. The force of this blade entirely depends on the water flow where the ship is moving. To cut a long story short, the rudder draws the mechanical trajectory and speed with which your ship will move along this trajectory and insignificantly affects the trajectory pattern. First of all, the rudder area, its position, hull lines and form all affect the values of tactical diameter — in other words, the 180-degree turning diameter of the ship relative to the initial heading.

...

[Admiral_noodle]

I'm sure this thread has come up before...

[EmilyFara]

Of course you end up in the same spot. Think about it, eventually you will always end up in the same spot, even if you use only 1% rudder. The difference is that the circle is smaller when you are slower, and bigger when you are faster.

Actually, a ship thats turning gets a tighter circle the longer it turns. It starts out as really wide and gets smaller. So you dont come back at the same position

 

 

ZombieFX maybe you should do a bit more "research" before claiming something is "unrealistic". It would also help to use for research the ships and not cars

To quote from http://blog.worldofwarships.com/full-speed-ahead/

...

World War II ships didn’t have active traverse thrust devices, and in fact could be operated only with the help of a common rudder, or blade. The force of this blade entirely depends on the water flow where the ship is moving. To cut a long story short, the rudder draws the mechanical trajectory and speed with which your ship will move along this trajectory and insignificantly affects the trajectory pattern. First of all, the rudder area, its position, hull lines and form all affect the values of tactical diameter — in other words, the 180-degree turning diameter of the ship relative to the initial heading.

...

LOL, he used car physics? Im currently at sea so cant see the vids, but thats just hilarious.

However, there is a slight fault in your quote. Its not the speed of the ship that decides the turn rate but the speed of the water flowing over the rudder. The difference is that if the rudder is put behind the propellor a ship can be stationary and turning (until it starts getting forward momentum because of the propellor)