Can we get the statistics of torpedo hits before/after the patch?

[ghostbuster_]

There is something wrong in this game atm. DDs are the most scarry class even against their counters. But still some people claim that the buff didnt change much. Maybe we can get some statistics to make the difference clear.

[Pastaiolo]

DDs can be countered, so i don't really think there is a scary class in game.

 

CVs back in the day perhaps, but there are way less now.

Sure, one time i found myself in a BB with two Fubukis flanking me on both sides, that wasn't pretty but it's the only time it happened to me.

[Criopy]

 

Guess how which type of damage is more reliable?

[Carnivore81]

I always get wet Pants when I See 3 or more Shima on enemy Team in BB,CA.

 

[AgarwaenME]

DDs can be countered, so i don't really think there is a scary class in game.

 

CVs back in the day perhaps, but there are way less now.

Sure, one time i found myself in a BB with two Fubukis flanking me on both sides, that wasn't pretty but it's the only time it happened to me.

 

As you should be, try to picture that being a NO against two Amagis. I'll bet your BB had a lot larger chance to get away than it would.

[LilJumpa]

If you consider the amount of whine on the forums the hitrate exceeds 50% , detection range is 2.1km and average damage is 250k

[ghostbuster_]

 

As you should be, try to picture that being a NO against two Amagis. I'll bet your BB had a lot larger chance to get away than it would.

 

BBs counter CAs of course it would be a certain death for NO.

[ghostbuster_]

 

Guess how which type of damage is more reliable?

That was before the patch and for a very long time period.

And statistics should include:

1.Avarage damage made by torps before the patch and after the patch.

2.Ship classes which sunk by torpedos. (Which class were sunk by torpedos most?)

[thepasty]

Scared of a DD?! maybe for a BB or CV cap... as a CA cap I love to hunt the little buggers!

[AgarwaenME]

 

BBs counter CAs of course it would be a certain death for NO.

 

Wow, you actually got the point of that post. Now consider why that would relate to the post I replied to.

[ghostbuster_]

 

Wow, you actually got the point of that post. Now consider why that would relate to the post I replied to.

 

I dont agree with that guy btw.. ıf 2 dds flank a bb. its normal bb to die.

[ghostbuster_]

Scared of a DD?! maybe for a BB or CV cap... as a CA cap I love to hunt the little buggers!

at which tier? i also love to hunt them with my murmansk. but the torp buff is after tier 8 massive.

[AgarwaenME]

 

I dont agree with that guy btw.. ıf 2 dds flank a bb. its normal bb to die.

 

So then what was your point? Both are going to be heavily dissfavoured, so why even argue against that? A CA might be able to evade two BBs, as can a BB avoid two DDs.  It's two ships of a single ships counter class in both circumstances.

[ghostbuster_]

 

So then what was your point? Both are going to be heavily dissfavoured, so why even argue against that? A CA might be able to evade two BBs, as can a BB avoid two DDs.  It's two ships of a single ships counter class in both circumstances.

 

Did i said anything against your post? I agreed what you said. 

[Nechrom]

at which tier? i also love to hunt them with my murmansk. but the torp buff is after tier 8 massive.

 

That would assume you don't have the detection upgrade... for some reason. Because if you do then there is no buff.

[ghostbuster_]

 

That would assume you don't have the detection upgrade... for some reason. Because if you do then there is no buff.

 

I use them on my bbs but i dont care the buff as a BB player. but (maybe im telling this 10th time) if CAs counter DDs they shouldn't need a captain skill or detection module. If a stock CA cant handle a stock DD there is a massive problem because CAs are designed as main counters to DDs.

[Kirasa]

 

I use them on my bbs but i dont care the buff as a BB player. but (maybe im telling this 10th time) if CAs counter DDs they shouldn't need a captain skill or detection module. If a stock CA cant handle a stock DD there is a massive problem because CAs are designed as main counters to DDs.

 

And I told you already that you don't need the skill if you know how to play a CA and aren't just a bad player.

[ghostbuster_]

 

And I told you already that you don't need the skill if you know how to play a CA and aren't just a bad player.

 

Thats why i asked for statistics about torpedos. To see who is right. 

[Crysantos]

There is something wrong in this game atm. DDs are the most scarry class even against their counters. But still some people claim that the buff didnt change much. Maybe we can get some statistics to make the difference clear.

 

Once the new statistics are online, I'll do another episode of statistics galore. But in general - it's not the buff to DD that has this effect, it's the focus on BBs and DDs with the lack of higher Tier CAs and CVs. CVs to spot them, CAs to HE them down. It's a lack of balance - not the issue of OP DD.

[AgarwaenME]

 

Once the new statistics are online, I'll do another episode of statistics galore. But in general - it's not the buff to DD that has this effect, it's the focus on BBs and DDs with the lack of higher Tier CAs and CVs. CVs to spot them, CAs to HE them down. It's a lack of balance - not the issue of OP DD.

 

That's a point that can't be stressed enough. But instead of focusing on the actual issues, and those are issues we predicted would happen if the nerf criers were paid attention to, they just want to continue the whack-a-mole style of "nerf this, and then this, and then this, because no matter how many people tell me what will happen if they do, I'll just ignore that since I can only focus on the things I struggle with right now".

 

It's as if they don't get what happens if you nerf DD torps again. All that will result is in even more people queueing in BBs, and thus even less reason to queue in CAs, which means you just get even more people in DDs. Basicly, it will do nothing at all to the queue pattern. If they actually wanted fewer DDs, they should be asking for buffs to make CAs and CVs good choices. More planes in the air, and more low calibre high rof guns covering the map is how you defeat DDs, not by nerfing them.

[EsaTuunanen]

but the torp buff is after tier 8 massive.

Shimakaze's torpedo wall is definitely now even stronger because of ability to do both quite wide and also dense (harder to slip through) spread.

But with other DDs it would be hard to make hits to cruiser who preventively maneuvers and keeps ship's profile small.

 

Once the new statistics are online, I'll do another episode of statistics galore. But in general - it's not the buff to DD that has this effect, it's the focus on BBs and DDs with the lack of higher Tier CAs and CVs. CVs to spot them, CAs to HE them down. It's a lack of balance - not the issue of OP DD.

Myself haven't really noticed any notable difference in hit percentage.

Better players are still very hard to hit with torps with often launching dozens and dozens of torps for one or two hits and again sometimes there are those games with everyone sailing in straight lines...

And you should have just launched all at lead indicator instead of some spreading for hits in case of evasion attempt.

[Leemos]

One more topic about failing adapt to new changes... Still I dont see DD or torps to be OP, tho I have been sunk by them on my BBs and CA, but all of those time because of my mistakes and that could be avoided if I wasnt that stupid. And I still see in ranked queue mostly BBs and cruisers least - go figure.

 

As about statistics, I dont think there is for date range for public, unless You contact wows-numbers.com, they might able to add this kinda option.

[TheJezna]

AgarwaenME, on 12 January 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

 

As you should be, try to picture that being a NO against two Amagis. I'll bet your BB had a lot larger chance to get away than it would.

 

BBs counter CAs of course it would be a certain death for NO.

 

I think that was his point.

 

That was before the patch and for a very long time period.

And statistics should include:

1.Avarage damage made by torps before the patch and after the patch.

2.Ship classes which sunk by torpedos. (Which class were sunk by torpedos most?)

 

I'd hazard to say that DD's are a pretty common victim of torpedoes. At least it feels like it's one of the more common torpedo hits I get, when in a close range fight, using your torpedoes correctly is every bit as important as the guns, and I'm primarily using USN DD's which have the best guns by far for close range fights.

 

 

Once the new statistics are online, I'll do another episode of statistics galore. But in general - it's not the buff to DD that has this effect, it's the focus on BBs and DDs with the lack of higher Tier CAs and CVs. CVs to spot them, CAs to HE them down. It's a lack of balance - not the issue of OP DD.

 

Absolutely. That's why the fact that balancing CV's seems very hard to do without major game changes is so troubling: It's not just about CV players getting sad that their class can't be made to work, the game is based on the dynamics between classes, and when one part of that puzzle breaks, everything does. I'd say that generally DD's are about where they need to be right now, which is made obvious by the fact that in games where there actually are decent CV players, DD's tend to not be as dominant and if they are it's because the player is very good.

 

EsaTuunanen, on 12 January 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

but the torp buff is after tier 8 massive.

Shimakaze's torpedo wall is definitely now even stronger because of ability to do both quite wide and also dense (harder to slip through) spread.

But with other DDs it would be hard to make hits to cruiser who preventively maneuvers and keeps ship's profile small.

 

True, the shima torp wall is really scary, but other top tier DD's have pretty decent torps to that at least I tend to hit cruisers with pretty regularly. Off the top of my head, my Fletcher has 10 torps every 81 secs (with skill and upgrade) with 10,5 km range, like 65 knts speed and 19k damage. The shima has almost double the range (not often that important), slightly higher damage and speed as I recall and of course those 50% more torps, out of which the last is the really important thing. But it's reload is considerably longer as well and slightly worse concealment. The Gearing gets longer range but worse damage and concealment. Can't really recall the Kagero. Point is, all of these are pretty good ships for delivering torpedoes and unchecked are pretty scary. Which falls back to above, how important it is to achieve balance rather than just blindly nerfing stuff that feels OP to some.

[ghostbuster_]

 

That's a point that can't be stressed enough. But instead of focusing on the actual issues, and those are issues we predicted would happen if the nerf criers were paid attention to, they just want to continue the whack-a-mole style of "nerf this, and then this, and then this, because no matter how many people tell me what will happen if they do, I'll just ignore that since I can only focus on the things I struggle with right now".

 

It's as if they don't get what happens if you nerf DD torps again. All that will result is in even more people queueing in BBs, and thus even less reason to queue in CAs, which means you just get even more people in DDs. Basicly, it will do nothing at all to the queue pattern. If they actually wanted fewer DDs, they should be asking for buffs to make CAs and CVs good choices. More planes in the air, and more low calibre high rof guns covering the map is how you defeat DDs, not by nerfing them.

Have i ever asked for a nerf to DDs? No! My suggestion was: allow to cruisers use the sonar ability and aa defend ability at the same time with a little buff to sonar. So DDs can still spam torps with ridiculous detection range to BBs or to anyone. But if the CA has his sonar ability on torps are gonna miss.

[AgarwaenME]

Have i ever asked for a nerf to DDs? No! My suggestion was: allow to cruisers use the sonar ability and aa defend ability at the same time with a little buff to sonar. So DDs can still spam torps with ridiculous detection range to BBs or to anyone. But if the CA has his sonar ability on torps are gonna miss.

 

Sorry, do you not understand how the reply and quote functions work? That was not directed directly toward you.

 

Nor have you suggested anything like that in this thread. You just threw out a question indicating they're suddenly overperforming.