CV & Divisions Restrictions

[WhoopieMonster]

I have always noticed that when you form a division you can only have one CV, I assumed this was due to a 2 or 3 man CV division was too powerful at some point when was this the case? I would have liked to division up with my buddies in two or more CVs. Is it ever likely to be changed? 3 Shimi divs, 3 Yamato divs, infact 3 anything divisions can create a very one sided battle, are CVs that much worse?

 

I'm not raging/demanding a change. I'm curious of the history behind it and what you all think. 

 

I did do a brief search but couldn't find anything.. 

[IamTroublemaker]

I have always noticed that when you form a division you can only have one CV, I assumed this was due to a 2 or 3 man CV division was too powerful at some point when was this the case? I would have liked to division up with my buddies in two or more CVs. Is it ever likely to be changed? 3 Shimi divs, 3 Yamato divs, infact 3 anything divisions can create a very one sided battle, are CVs that much worse?

 

I'm not raging/demanding a change. I'm curious of the history behind it and what you all think. 

 

I did do a brief search but couldn't find anything.. 

 

I'd still rather see 2 Shimas or 2 Yamatos than 2 Midways. Even 1 Midway is way too much (yes, BB mafia).

[WhoopieMonster]

lol, I understand that, BB main here.

 

But it still seems like a strange restriction, to counter aircraft requires better team work / self awareness to not get yourself in a position where you get torp'd/bombed into oblivion. But I still don't see them being that much of a threat, they have changed significantly in recent patches. Is it something that should be reviewed? The only OP about divisions is team work, and like I said it doesn't really matter what ships you go in.

 

 

[IamTroublemaker]

lol, I understand that, BB main here.

 

But it still seems like a strange restriction, to counter aircraft requires better team work / self awareness to not get yourself in a position where you get torp'd/bombed into oblivion. But I still don't see them being that much of a threat, they have changed significantly in recent patches. Is it something that should be reviewed? The only OP about divisions is team work, and like I said it doesn't really matter what ships you go in.

 

 

 

Well, if you look at it, it is almost certain they would work together. One CV could take full strike and the other one air superiority and just cover each other and kill ships 1 by 1 without any bigger problems.

[__Katniss__]

2x midway in div. Meh, no thx. 

[WhoopieMonster]

They would work together, but two Yamatos will work together to just as devastating effect. There is a reason most people have a much better win % when working in a division. My point is why restrict CVs and not other classes? Are they that much more powerful? If they are so good then you'd think you'd see them all the time. The only time I really see CVs is when I use them. Like I said, I think that it was a legacy issue from the times when a CV could one shot/cripple most ships with minimum effort. They have changed a lot since then. 

 

2x midway in div. Meh, no thx. 

 

But why? Are they so much more powerful? No one has actually given an explanation. When I see 3 Yamatos in a Div at the start of the match it is just GG WP because they are so hard to counter, they will be sailing together focusing fire and helping each other out. 

[__Katniss__]

They would work together, but two Yamatos will work together to just as devastating effect. There is a reason most people have a much better win % when working in a division. My point is why restrict CVs and not other classes? Are they that much more powerful? If they are so good then you'd think you'd see them all the time. The only time I really see CVs is when I use them. Like I said, I think that it was a legacy issue from the times when a CV could one shot/cripple most ships with minimum effort. They have changed a lot since then. 

 

2x Midway in div is same devastating effect as 4-5x Yamato in div. Maybe thats why you can take ony 1 CV to div 

[AgarwaenME]

 

Well, if you look at it, it is almost certain they would work together. One CV could take full strike and the other one air superiority and just cover each other and kill ships 1 by 1 without any bigger problems.

 

This is really the best argument against it. While you can (as I have) play nice combinations with other ship types, like DD+stealth IJN CA, or double BB + AAA CA (before AAA became worthless to sacrifice other advantages for), it really wouldn't work for the game as a whole, when you can coordinate attacks to take out both (very likely undivisioned) enemy CVs and then go to town against the rest of the team.

 

On the other hand, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't perhaps limit other ship classes a bit too. Ie, no 3x shima divisions, or 3x Yamato divisions. Or if possible, enforce strict T10 only matches for divisions that signs up in T10 ships.

[von_chom]

But why? Are they so much more powerful? No one has actually given an explanation. When I see 3 Yamatos in a Div at the start of the match it is just GG WP because they are so hard to counter, they will be sailing together focusing fire and helping each other out. 

 

minimal manual drop distance+ planes HP+ planes speed = no chance to evade correctly dropped torps

[Jethro_Grey]

There is no way  to balance against 3 CVs without screwing up the game.

Such a division would certainly dominate every match, and even if you have such divisions on each side, the impact they would have on the match would turn all other classes

into XP and Coin Pinatas for the CVs on each side. I doubt anyone besides CV players would enjoy such a game environment.

 

The game is fine as it is, no multi-CV divisions.

Having multiple high tier DDs in a game is already challenging as it is.

[Reyte]

 

minimal manual drop distance+ planes HP+ planes speed = no chance to evade correctly dropped torps

 

You are not supposed to evade correctly dropped torps..evade the planes or trick the enemy cv to make a incorrect drop. position yourself correct in order to not to become an easy target.

 

apart from that i understand, why 2 cv in a division are too much for the mm. espeically if they are really good. same applies to 3 dds or 3 bbs. evene tough 3 bbs can be really useless depding on mm.

[von_chom]

Reyte, on 11 January 2016 - 01:50 PM, said:

 

You are not supposed to evade correctly dropped torps..evade the planes or trick the enemy cv to make a incorrect drop. position yourself correct in order to not to become an easy target.

 

 

we are playing different game then, since its almost impossible to evade manual dropped torps, no matter how much you turn or change ure speed

pls be so kind to share with us some trick or magic, I am honestly eager to hear those !

[IamTroublemaker]

 

You are not supposed to evade correctly dropped torps..evade the planes or trick the enemy cv to make a incorrect drop. position yourself correct in order to not to become an easy target.

 

 

Then a cruiser is not supposed to dodge any shells either? Or get overpenetrated (which happens a lot)? Also a DD is then is not supposed to dodge cruiser shells either then?

 

Have you even seen Midways in action? It can take any class, especially DDs (which is not supposed to happen) and BBs!

[WhoopieMonster]

von_chom, you can evade them you just need to anticipate. Don't wait until they are on top of you start turning when they are 4-5km out and they will either have to adjust their attack angle, giving you the opportunity to shoot down more planes or they will miss. I've done it plenty of times. Worst case you eat one torpedo. 

 

I understand the overriding point of view, but then what is the justifications for the x3 shima, x3 Yamato etc.. they dominate just as easily. 

[IamTroublemaker]

von_chom, you can evade them you just need to anticipate. Don't wait until they are on top of you start turning when they are 4-5km out and they will either have to adjust their attack angle, giving you the opportunity to shoot down more planes or they will miss. I've done it plenty of times. Worst case you eat one torpedo. 

 

I understand the overriding point of view, but then what is the justifications for the x3 shima, x3 Yamato etc.. they dominate just as easily. 

 

Replay please?

 

I have never had that happen to me. When I see a Midway going after me I can only chose whether to die form it or try to avoid it and show my juicy broadside to other BBs and die by them. Even if a Midway catches me when I'm a bit far from opponents, I have never managed to avoid more than 2-3 (out of 12) torps. His planes are too fast for any BB to avoid them properly (not saying you are supposed to). Unless its a complete noob Midway which I have not seen more than 1-2 times.

 

EDIT: Oh and lets not forget bombers that can make up to 10k dmg and 3 fires per drop.

[von_chom]

yep, you can evade auto drop if you start acting if the planes are +/- 5 km away.

with manual ure screwed anyway since they can drop fishes 500m away from ure 300m long ship which turns like a brick

[Reyte]

 

we are playing different game then, since its almost impossible to evade manual dropped torps, no matter how much you turn or change ure speed

pls be so kind to share with us some trick or magic, I am honestly eager to hear those !

 

u turn into them, fullreverse once or just before the torps are dropped. the cv might not anticapte a change in movement and speed. only turn away, when the planes are really far away.

Most people still turn away from torps, no wonder they get anhilated, its the worst you can do unless the torpedos will hit at a very bad angle.....

 

I see many good bb player who are able to avoid ym drops

 

edit: never show a cv, what you up to do.

 

 

Then a cruiser is not supposed to dodge any shells either? Or get overpenetrated (which happens a lot)? Also a DD is then is not supposed to dodge cruiser shells either then?

 

Have you even seen Midways in action? It can take any class, especially DDs (which is not supposed to happen) and BBs!

 

what kind of comparison is this? U can easly dodge shells at 20km, while u cannot at close range. Torps will always dropped as close as possible, since it will give the best angle and least possible chances to evade.

 

I own a midway myself.

 

Apart from that A Shokaku can kill t8 BB in one strike if well prepared and executed. is this supposed to happen aswell? Most people still dont know how to avoid beeing targeted, neither do they know how to evade cv attacks.

[von_chom]

I own a midway myself.

 

now i see where does the wind came from 

150-200k avg dmg; that for sure shows that you can evade manual drop .... there is no torp bounce mechanics ingame so impact angle doesnt matter, AA dps is not consistent and i can go on like this for ages

CV ( at least manual drop) is in need of serious overhaul

 

 

[Blue_Bug]

I have always noticed that when you form a division you can only have one CV, I assumed this was due to a 2 or 3 man CV division was too powerful at some point when was this the case? I would have liked to division up with my buddies in two or more CVs. Is it ever likely to be changed? 3 Shimi divs, 3 Yamato divs, infact 3 anything divisions can create a very one sided battle, are CVs that much worse?

 

I'm not raging/demanding a change. I'm curious of the history behind it and what you all think. 

 

I did do a brief search but couldn't find anything.. 

 

One thing a CV division can do what other division can't is to intervene on every spot on the map in litle time. This makes an division of CV's OP. Most of the time you can take countermeasures against one CV. Against two it is nearly imposible. 

 

For example a crosfire from 2 squad of torpedo planes is dificult to evade (almost imposible on tier 10). With two CV's playing together they can make it a crosfire of three of four torpedo squads. That doesn't have anything to do with skill. So it is good that they prevent this to happen. 

 

The Next thing WG has to prevent are the fail-divisions.

[Reyte]

 

now i see where does the wind came from 

150-200k avg dmg; that for sure shows that you can evade manual drop .... there is no torp bounce mechanics ingame so impact angle doesnt matter, AA dps is not consistent and i can go on like this for ages

CV ( at least manual drop) is in need of serious overhaul

 

 

 

only 5 games, tough. I know a bb player who did 418k damage in one game, u can imagine how his stat can look like if he only played a small amount of battles.

 

I mostly play other cv as u can clearly see. from my knowledge impact angle matters, AA is RNG.

 

If u thin manual drop needs a overhaul give us a construcutive suggestion how to overhaul

[von_chom]

 

If u thin manual drop needs a overhaul give us a construcutive suggestion how to overhaul

 

i am obviously not a CV players,  i would expect this from experienced CV player whos not blind and realises that there is simple no chance against mentioned problem (nobody wants his toys broken, but there should be certain balance)

my suggestion would be most likely pure BS since i dont play them

However i do agree that manual drop requires quite a lot of skill to do it correctly, but honestly, thats the only thing CV player needs (in case he plays RTS a lot so he can manage lot of squads at same time)

[AgarwaenME]

 

Then a cruiser is not supposed to dodge any shells either? Or get overpenetrated (which happens a lot)? Also a DD is then is not supposed to dodge cruiser shells either then?

 

Have you even seen Midways in action? It can take any class, especially DDs (which is not supposed to happen) and BBs!

 

You might aswell demand that CAs should be able to avoid all BB shells, or DDs be able to avoid all CA shells with no regards to the sklil of those that fired them. Since I see far more people demand to be able to avoid everything than those demanding to avoid some, or even most. And unlike those shells, there's far more passive and active defenses to defend against the planes before they even get torpedoes (or bombs) launched.

 

I mean, why not give CAs a passive ability to shoot down BB shells before they hit, and the same for DDs vs CAs. And also give them minutes of warning that guns are being pointed towards them.

[IamTroublemaker]

what kind of comparison is this? U can easly dodge shells at 20km, while u cannot at close range. Torps will always dropped as close as possible, since it will give the best angle and least possible chances to evade.

 

I own a midway myself.

 

Apart from that A Shokaku can kill t8 BB in one strike if well prepared and executed. is this supposed to happen aswell? Most people still dont know how to avoid beeing targeted, neither do they know how to evade cv attacks.

 

"If well prepared and executed" - That is the way it is supposed to be, while with Midways it is much easier (or at least seems so). I used to do my best trying to avoid all his planes, but after all those, mostly fail attempts I simply do not see the point in trying hard to dodge anymore. Whats the point of showing a broadside to other ships (while dodging torps) and taking a few thousand or tens of thousands of damage to avoid a few torps? I am dead anyway in situations like this, which is probably one of the main reasons (besides DDs) why you see BBs sniping. Sure, I can ask a cruiser to stick to me and help me but in most cases those cruisers will either die because of that or will just have an overall bad game with only a few hits.

[_FTD_]

CVs are supposed to be the main damage dealer in a game and you want to take away the only viable way to deal damage aka well timed manual drops? The time investment itself of sending squadrons to a target and back + the cooldown of the squadrons justifies the amount of dmg they deal

 

1 bad drop can cost you alot of damage in a game while its way more forgiving with BBs to miss a salvo, there are plenty of yamatos with 110k+ dmg but only a handful of carrier that i actually fear while playing a bb or cruiser 

 

the blind hate towards CVs is just delusional, if a CV wants to hit you with torps he most likely will do so which is balanced but its on you to lower the amount of hits by slowing down and turning in

 

i hate it myself to get fully nuked while playing BBs or even CAs but if it happens the CV did a good job and i messed up simple as that

 

e/ CV divisions would be ridiculous tho, it would be rather easy to control the entire game with 2 well coordinated CVs not even speaking bout 3...

[IamTroublemaker]

the blind hate towards CVs is just delusional, if a CV wants to hit you with torps he most likely will do so which is balanced but its on you to lower the amount of hits by slowing down and turning in

 

I do not think all of us hate all the CVs, but just the Midway