Undetectable Destroyer Firing Capabilities Excel Table

[xPiiRaTeD]

I made an excel sheet of the destroyers capabilities to shoot undetected. To view the full size of each table, right click each table and open in the image in a new tab.

 

Notes regarding these tables:

• The "Goldilocks Zone" is the distance that one has to fire without being detected while still being in range of the desired target.
• DPM values for HE and AP are present to influence ship choice.
• The "Detectability Range upgrades" denote a ship that has the following modifications:

1. A detection range optimized by the "Concealment Expert" captain perk (using minimum reduction in range, -10%)
2. "Type 1" Camoflauge
3. If applicable (tier VIII and above), the "Concealment System" upgrade.

• The "Firing Range upgrades" denote a ship that has the following modifications:

1. A main battery firing range optimized by the "Advanced Firing Training" captain perk
2. "Gun Fire Control System" module
3. If applicable (tier IX and above), the "Artillery Plotting Room" (modification 1, 16% range increase) upgrade.

• "Fully Upgraded" denotes a ship with both detectability and firing range upgrades.

 

Any suggestions? Errors? Please offer them.

Changelog:

1/9/2016:

• Added unique firing detection increases
• Removed the firing range upgrade for the Khabarovsk
• Factored in guns per side to DPM
• Factored in gun control system module
• Factored in camoflauge

1/10/2016:

• Added premium ships.
• Added Air Detectability Range
• Fixed an order of operation mathematical error regarding the calculation of concealment. The math can be explained in this thread.
• Split the table into 3 for better visibility.
• Added 2 different categories of the golidlocks zone. When fully upgraded, nearly every ship can shoot without being detected. Adding these two other scenarios gives a better representation of each ship's performance.

1/15/2016:

• Fixed Błyskawica's increase in detection range while firing
• Fixed many (pitifully stupid) spelling errors.

2/28/2016:

• Added the Anshan
• Fixed input error of Mahan's surface detectability range (7.9 to 7.7km)
• Added fire percentage in gun statistics as it is a vital arsenal for a destroyer.

[Mayv]

You have only the stock firing range of most DDs. For example:

 

Fubuki stock 9.1km upgraded 10km AFT 12km

 

[xPiiRaTeD]

You have only the stock firing range of most DDs. For example:

 

Fubuki stock 9.1km upgraded 10km AFT 12km

 

 

Oh. I see editing.

[Kurbain]

Thanks for the list!

I believe some of the high-tier destroyers have a module available to them that increases their firing range. Not sure which ones, though.

You could add that to the list.

[xPiiRaTeD]

Thanks for the list!
I believe some of the high-tier destroyers have a module available to them that increases their firing range. Not sure which ones, though.
You could add that to the list.

 

You have only the stock firing range of most DDs. For example:

 

Fubuki stock 9.1km upgraded 10km AFT 12km

 

 

Fixed and incorporated. 

[Mayv]

You might also want to include the -3% detection range camouflage, if you haven't already.

[xPiiRaTeD]

You might also want to include the -3% detection range camouflage, if you haven't already.

 

Yes it is factored in. I forgot to mention it. Thanks.

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

My Gnevny Tier 5 Russian DD has permanent camo applied. This reduces surface detectability to 6.8 km. Firing the guns adds 5.9 km to this, so the detection range when firing is 6.8 + 5.0 = 12.7.

 

Fire Control System Mod 2 is fitted which increases the range of the guns to 11.9 km. My Gnevny captain has the level 5 AFT skill, so the range of the guns increases further to 14.3 km.

 

So according to my calculations my Gnevny has a Goldilocks Zone of 14.3 - 12.7 = 1.6 km.

 

With a speed of 38 kts (without any further mods) this means that I should be able to control the distance of any engagement with BBs or CAs that I am likely to face. (In theory.... )

 

What you have to be careful of is falling into the trap of believing that you are invisible because you happen to be in the Goldilocks Zone vis-a-vis your target enemy ship. There could easily be enemy DDs that have you spotted. The "Situational Awareness" skill is very useful for these situations.

[LilJumpa]

Thx for the list +1

 

Suggestions:

- maybe add/change a few columns to make it easier to understand the list. The notes you added in your post are essential for understanding some numbers and the stock values are a bit irritating. Examples:

• Column E: Don't use the stock numbers but the ones with the Gun Fire Control System (GFCS). Most people should research that upgrade since it makes sense 99% of the time.
• Column F: Took me a minute to understand that you mean the available module (GFCS). See above.
• Add a few columns with the possible min/max numbers regarding concealment and firing range to better understand the "optimized"
• add air detection ranges if it doesn't bloat the list too much

 

- prem DDs? Blys, Sims, Gremy, Fujin/Kamikaze

 

- Did you consider the captain skill "Basic Fire Training"  for your DPM numbers? If I go for guns on my DDs that skill is essential.

 

 

Last thing that went through my head, which is impossible to add to that list is the logic part about "optimisation". 

RU: Going all guns is a no brainer

US: In higher Tiers you have decision to make since the Torps become a valid option and the bonus you get from captain skills and modules for your guns is relatively small due to the high DPM

IJN: Whoever spends 3 Mio credits on a gun upgrade mod for Kagero or Shima and leaves out the Torpedo modification shouldn't call his DD "optimized" 

[Panocek]

Thx for the list +1

 

Suggestions:

- maybe add/change a few columns to make it easier to understand the list. The notes you added in your post are essential for understanding some numbers and the stock values are a bit irritating. Examples:

• Column E: Don't use the stock numbers but the ones with the Gun Fire Control System (GFCS). Most people should research that upgrade since it makes sense 99% of the time.
• Column F: Took me a minute to understand that you mean the available module (GFCS). See above.
• Add a few columns with the possible min/max numbers regarding concealment and firing range to better understand the "optimized"
• add air detection ranges if it doesn't bloat the list too much

 

- prem DDs? Blys, Sims, Gremy, Fujin/Kamikaze

 

- Did you consider the captain skill "Basic Fire Training"  for your DPM numbers? If I go for guns on my DDs that skill is essential.

 

 

Last thing that went through my head, which is impossible to add to that list is the logic part about "optimisation". 

RU: Going all guns is a no brainer

US: In higher Tiers you have decision to make since the Torps become a valid option and the bonus you get from captain skills and modules for your guns is relatively small due to the high DPM

IJN: Whoever spends 3 Mio credits on a gun upgrade mod for Kagero or Shima and leaves out the Torpedo modification shouldn't call his DD "optimized" 

 

Theorycrafting, USN/RU derpstroyers can take Main Battery mod 3 (12% faster RoF at cost of 17% turret traverse) and BFT for gun buff, while using Torpedo Armament skill to bump torp reload, as turret traverse should be more than fine anyway. Gearing pew pewing every 2.4s?

[Bace92]

pew pew Gearing

no srsly, nice to know those things, thx mate +1

[Crooq_Lionfang]

Wow thanks for all the work you did!

 

Now, I really need to work on my Captains it seems, but it seems that tough choices have to be made. Last Stand (I think, the tier 4 skill where engine and rudder still work) on the one hand is a must have, but that means, that either AFT or Concealment expert are very hard to achieve. On Gearing the choices might seem easier than for example on Shimakaze, because the optimized Goldilocks zone is far bigger. 

[Kirasa]

My Gnevny Tier 5 Russian DD has permanent camo applied. This reduces surface detectability to 6.8 km. Firing the guns adds 5.9 km to this, so the detection range when firing is 6.8 + 5.0 = 12.7.

 

Fire Control System Mod 2 is fitted which increases the range of the guns to 11.9 km. My Gnevny captain has the level 5 AFT skill, so the range of the guns increases further to 14.3 km.

 

So according to my calculations my Gnevny has a Goldilocks Zone of 14.3 - 12.7 = 1.6 km.

 

With a speed of 38 kts (without any further mods) this means that I should be able to control the distance of any engagement with BBs or CAs that I am likely to face. (In theory.... )

 

What you have to be careful of is falling into the trap of believing that you are invisible because you happen to be in the Goldilocks Zone vis-a-vis your target enemy ship. There could easily be enemy DDs that have you spotted. The "Situational Awareness" skill is very useful for these situations.

 

No, camo also lowers the added detection by firing the guns. So with -3% detection by camo you add 5.723km detection.

[Tyrendian89]

 

No, camo also lowers the added detection by firing the guns. So with -3% detection by camo you add 5.723km detection.

 

Judging by iChase's testing (which admittedly is a while back), no it doesn't. And neither does the stealth upgrade. The only thing that applies to that penalty is the captain skill.

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

Edited

[MrConway]

Excellent work!

 

Do you mind if I move your thread to the Destroyer game guide section and pin it there?

[piritskenyer]

Can I suggest that you implant this into a spreadsheet (like Excustio did on his ship comparisons) and add the premium ships? That'd be wonderful.

 

Good work so far

Cheers

[xPiiRaTeD]

Hi all. All the kind comments are greatly appreciated. There are obviously some edits to the table that need to be addressed. 

• Clearer information: I need to list the range of the main battery rather than the stock range. It seems quite confusing I know. I understand it because I designed it; I didn't plan for this to be released publicly.
• Order of operations for mathematical calculations: from reading it seems that captain perks that decrease detection range apply after the penalty for shooting. 
• Adding in premium ships

Currently I'm not home right now. I will fix this as soon as possible. 

MrConway, you may move this to the destroyer guide section if you'd like

[anonym_EFwxJOPWzlER]

I made an excel sheet of the destroyers capabilities to shoot undetected. 

Notes regarding this table:

• The "Goldilocks Zone" is the distance that one has to fire without being detected while still being in range of the desired target.
• DPM values for HE and AP have been added to influence ship choice.
• Optimized detection ranges are based upon the following: 

1. A detection range optimized by the "Concealment Expert" captain perk (using minimum reduction in range, -10%), "Type 1" Camoflauge, and, if applicable (tier VIII and above), the "Concealment System" upgrade.
2. A main battery firing range optimized by the "Advanced Firing Training" captain perk, "Gun Fire Control System" module, and, if applicable (tier IX and above), the "Artillery Plotting Room" (modification 1, 16% range increase) upgrade.

 

Any suggestions? Errors? Please offer them.

Changelog:

1/9/2016:

• Added unique firing detection increases
• Removed the firing range upgrade for the Khabarovsk
• Factored in guns per side to DPM
• Factored in gun control system module
• Factored in camoflauge

 

If i understand this right; every USA destroyer tier for tier outguns an IJN destroyer tier for tier ?

[Myrmix]

 

If i understand this right; every USA destroyer tier for tier outguns an IJN destroyer tier for tier ?

 

Yes, US-DDs are very good gunships, but have weaker torps than IJN, who are supposed to be real torpedo-boats.

[anonym_EFwxJOPWzlER]

 

Yes, US-DDs are very good gunships, but have weaker torps than IJN, who are supposed to be real torpedo-boats.

 

From Tier 8 down the torps on IJN dd's are weak, Fubuki torps are are very poor, they are very slow and rarely hit a target over 7km unless you just spam them and hope for the best

[D7v]

Nice work. Thank you respect and plus. 

 

Strangely despite their firing ranges Soviet ships seem to be worst stealth gunners except tier 9 and 10. 

 

But I think most interesting tiers are 6 and 7 

[Kirasa]

 

From Tier 8 down the torps on IJN dd's are weak, Fubuki torps are are very poor, they are very slow and rarely hit a target over 7km unless you just spam them and hope for the best

 

I have a 8% hitrate with torps with Fubuki while using the 15km ones and torping mostly on long range...

Which is a rather normal hitrate with torps, unless you do suicide runs.

[Tuuletar]

Great Work 

 

This is for you 

 

 

 

 

[Beardroid91]

Great thread, i have been using this benefit ever since iChase made his video showing the benefits of stealth firing as a DD.

 

 

I noticed you didn't have the Blyskawica on your list, so as i wanted to test this for myself i made a training-room and tested the Blys's firing detectablity, which was pretty good at stock and very nice with AFT 

 

 

Blyskawica stats:

The Blys is detected at 7,5 km with the premium camo (-3% detection and +50% XP), and it can shoot 12 km at stock and 14,4 km with AFT, and Blys's guns give it away at 11,15 km so you have 0,85 km and 3,25 km with AFT to play with, and Blys's gun arc are pretty good, not like the USN DD's that can't hit anything over 11-12 km because the high gun arc.