The Roon - The Strongest T9 Cruiser

[Pupu_prpr]

Another look at the German Roon, a very strong cruiser that seems to be quite under-appreciated from some reason. And not played to its full strengths.

 

I'm not usually too fussed about the average damage, but the huge disparity actually caught me by surprise. Seems like people haven't really caught on to the power of the Roon yet. Even more baffling to me is that my average is brought down by all the games I played the ship at stock, it has been rising steadily and I fully expect it to approach 95-100k before I move on the Hindenburg.

The Hindenburg is now also becoming a very enticing ship to me, because if the Roon is this powerful then I'm definitively looking forward to what it can do. Maybe this will finally be a cruiser that can de-throne the mighty Zao from my #1 cruiser in the game spot?

 

[mtm78]

 

No can't be, I know Von_Pletz will say it's a weak ship and it should be buffed  Or was it van_boeg? 

 

I don't know any more, I just know I can read numbers and Roon and Hindenburg do look appealing when looking at numbers 

 

I just got a Kongue to kill me some more CA's quicker, but for a new CL line the Germans are actually looking way more appealing than the USN one. 

 

 

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

Roon is a beast. Of course, it's tier IX CA, so a subpar vessel, but it's very good CA apart from that. However, didn't encounter a skilled player in this ship yet. Would like to see how it goes in my Des Moines against a skilled Roon (and Hindenburg in fact) players.

[t3h3th32]

Thanks for another video Flamu. Appreciate especially the part, where you talk about the modules and specific builds for each ship, although, I still hasn't caught up with why the cpt. fire skill for 2 points is useless, nevertheless, I'm skipping it these days anyways.

 

Roon is in fact a tough opponent and Hindenburg is sorta like meeting a battlecruiser of sorts, I went toe to toe with one the other night in my recently purchased Baltimore, needles to say, I felt, like I was driving an Atlanta, 1st salvo, 1st turret gone, 2nd salvo, 2nd turret gone, gg.

 

Definitely looking for your upcoming Hindenburg commentary.

 

Cheers,

~t3h'Pâr4d0x

[byronicasian]

No can't be, I know Von_Pletz will say it's a weak ship and it should be buffed  Or was it van_boeg? 

 

I don't know any more, I just know I can read numbers and Roon and Hindenburg do look appealing when looking at numbers 

 

I just got a Kongue to kill me some more CA's quicker, but for a new CL line the Germans are actually looking way more appealing than the USN one. 

 

 

IIRC, its "VonPletz". Although to be fair, his written English is a bit of a pain for me to read (syntax annoys me way more than it should, not to mention that salute emote he does at the end of every post). 

[Pupu_prpr]

Thanks for another video Flamu. Appreciate especially the part, where you talk about the modules and specific builds for each ship, although, I still hasn't caught up with why the cpt. fire skill for 2 points is useless, nevertheless, I'm skipping it these days anyways.

 

Roon is in fact a tough opponent and Hindenburg is sorta like meeting a battlecruiser of sorts, I went toe to toe with one the other night in my recently purchased Baltimore, needles to say, I felt, like I was driving an Atlanta, 1st salvo, 1st turret gone, 2nd salvo, 2nd turret gone, gg.

 

Definitely looking for your upcoming Hindenburg commentary.

 

Cheers,

~t3h'Pâr4d0x

 

Cheers, and as to why Fire Prevention is useless, it's because of how the reduction is calculated. Where as Demolition expert adds a flat 3% chance of fire, Fire Prevention instead of subtracting 7%, it multiplies the fire chance by 0.93, so if a hypothetical shell has a 10% chance of fire, it will then have a 9.3% chance of fire. The Damage Control System Modification 1 Module works in the same way against fire and flooding, hence why I recommend against using it on anything else than BBs. There is some additional math added in, like the tier of the enemy ship affecting the chance of starting a fire, but that's the basic explanation.

[Spithas]

I agree with how underrated the Roon is but i disagree with the "absolutely murders cruisers" part. It absolutely rains shitloads of damage to BBs and yes unsuspecting cruisers but the latter part is not a Roon characteristic it's universal.

 

When the Atago (SanchoPL) is coming at you he is doing it exactly right and that is a situation i would not like to be in a ROON when another CA that has superior HE is approaching me at good angle. Had he not chickened (mainly because of the battleships with you) you would have been at a severe disadvantage DPM wise vs him. The Roon also has only 3 turrets so you can't effectively stagger them to prevent him from zig zagging to bring all his Guns on you and still remain well angled.

 

With everything else i agree and it's definately a keeper infact Hipper - Roon - Hindenburg are all excellent.

[Pupu_prpr]

I agree with how underrated the Roon is but i disagree with the "absolutely murders cruisers" part. It absolutely rains shitloads of damage to BBs and yes unsuspecting cruisers but the latter part is not a Roon characteristic it's universal.

 

When the Atago (SanchoPL) is coming at you he is doing it exactly right and that is a situation i would not like to be in a ROON when another CA that has superior HE is approaching me at good angle. Had he not chickened (mainly because of the battleships with you) you would have been at a severe disadvantage DPM wise vs him. The Roon also has only 3 turrets so you can't effectively stagger them to prevent him from zig zagging to bring all his Guns on you and still remain well angled.

 

With everything else i agree and it's definately a keeper infact Hipper - Roon - Hindenburg are all excellent.

 

The Roon can pen Atagos straight from the bow, and if he comes straight at me I will murder his turrets as well, especially at that range. Also his superior HE deals a total of 125 400 HE DPM, the Roon deals 265 500 AP DPM, not counting in the additional reload from gun mod 3.

[t3h3th32]

 

Cheers, and as to why Fire Prevention is useless, it's because of how the reduction is calculated. Where as Demolition expert adds a flat 3% chance of fire, Fire Prevention instead of subtracting 7%, it multiplies the fire chance by 0.93, so if a hypothetical shell has a 10% chance of fire, it will then have a 9.3% chance of fire. The Damage Control System Modification 1 Module works in the same way against fire and flooding, hence why I recommend against using it on anything else than BBs. There is some additional math added in, like the tier of the enemy ship affecting the chance of starting a fire, but that's the basic explanation.

 

Thanks for the explanation. It makes more sense now.

 

Cheers,

~t3h'Pâr4d0x

[Pupu_prpr]

Hehe, figured it would, I usually don't tell people to skip stuff without a reason

[Spithas]

Nobody said anything about coming STRAIGHT at you and when i said DPM i was talking about applicable damage not paper stats.

 

You will suffer a lot in a pure 1 v 1 vs any non German CA that can approach you angled undisturbed, captained by a player of similar skill.

[Pupu_prpr]

I have yet to see that. I've had both Ibuki's and Baltimore's try to challenge me in fights by closing the distance, it has always been an overwhelming win for me. The Ibuki eventually got close enough where I punched straight through to his citadel even when he angled himself while the Baltimore lost his front turrets trying to angle himself steeply against me.

[Messayah]

Hey Flamu!

 

If you like the Roon you will definitely enjoy playing the Hindenburg.

it extends from absolutely murders cruisers status to practically absolutely murders evrything

 

it is not my intention to hijack your thread but i hope you dont mind i post my vid of the Hindi in action

Hope you like it!

 

[Sander93]

It´s not hard to be the best tier 9 cruisers, when the competition consists of the Baltimore and Ibuki.

 

Still definitely caught my attention, will try when the next test server comes up. Unless the German battleships come first. 

[VonPletz]

The Roon is...meh....

 

In your gameplay video you make the comments of going against Cleveland and in your video gameplay are firing on Tier 7 and 8 Cruisers.  With 203mm guns, I would hope you could do a lot damage against them especially since they were dumb enough to give you their broad sides.

 

As to comparisons.....Against other cruisers the Roon can do damage but if you are in a fight and they actually come back at you the paper thin armor and the poor ruddershift (it has the ruddershift speed of a battleship)  you are in trouble.  You also mentioned you stay back from Destroyers...which is smart......you should with the Roon because of its poor turn capabilities.

 

Flamu, you are a very good player and if you like the Roon...you will love the Hindenburg.....It's not a Zao but it (Hindenburg) can hold its own which is unusual for the rest of the German Cruisers. Since they nerfed the Des Moines and gave is mortars instead of actual cannons I prefer the Hindenburg over the Des Moines but for Tier 10 Cruisers...Zao is still king of the hill. Hindenburg is a good tier 10 ship...good guns, fast, good ruddershift and turn ratios, with semi decent armor so you don't get destroyed after one salvo like most of the other German Cruisers.

 

I make my observations and comparisons on STOCK ships not full upgraded and if you take and directly compare the 3 tier 9 Cruisers the ROON comes up short against it piers.  When you start adding in upgrades Captain skills and player skills it does make a difference.  But if you fight STOCK ship to STOCK ship...the Roon is below average.

 

Sure if you have advanced aiming, range upgrades, superior Captian skills...the Roon can give you some great game play...but you better hope you are clearing atleast 160k per game because this ship has very high refurbish costs which are higher than Ibuki and Baltimore.

 

If you ever want to Division with Roons...would be glad to play with your as partner...you are a very good player as I have stated before.

 

Ciao.

 

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

Wait, no german bias, russian developers, poor germans are screwed again by WG comments? I'm suprised!

 

Roon is hell of a opponent. Yesterday it took me quite long to take him out with my Des, he wasn't really good player, he just sailed full broadside with no manouvers, but my AP just couldn't penetrate his citadel for some reason. I know I had propably bad rolls or dispersion issues, but it can happen on occasions. On the other hand, when Roon catches you off-guard, and places a good salvo in your broadside - man, it hurts. 

 

As for the rest of your post, I agree with some of them, and disagree with other points (comparing stock ships? Why would anyone want to do it? Pensacola for example, absolutely thrash on stock, pretty decent when upgraded), but it is refreshing to actually see you sharing opinions withouh exclamation marks and german bias every sentence. Upvote from me.

[mtm78]

Wait, no german bias, russian developers, poor germans are screwed again by WG comments? I'm suprised!

 

Roon is hell of a opponent. Yesterday it took me quite long to take him out with my Des, he wasn't really good player, he just sailed full broadside with no manouvers, but my AP just couldn't penetrate his citadel for some reason. I know I had propably bad rolls or dispersion issues, but it can happen on occasions. On the other hand, when Roon catches you off-guard, and places a good salvo in your broadside - man, it hurts. 

 

As for the rest of your post, I agree with some of them, and disagree with other points (comparing stock ships? Why would anyone want to do it? Pensacola for example, absolutely thrash on stock, pretty decent when upgraded), but it is refreshing to actually see you sharing opinions withouh exclamation marks and german bias every sentence. Upvote from me.

 

I feel cuddly, I'll upvote you both... group hug 

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

[_FTD_]

No doubt that you can judge ships really well but i have to say that im not fearing a roon while i play my zao, well yeah its t10 vs t9 afterall but yesterday was a nice example of a full HP roon vs my 16k HP zao, it was a pure 1v1 and the fight between us started after he popped up behind an island ( was 9km away at this point ), i simply took out his frontal armament with 2 salvos and after that he was lost. Besides that he did 8-11k ish dmg only by shooting AP at my zao while being 8km away from me which was quite underwhelming, it might have been luck or him not utilizing the roon properly but it wasnt a match for the zao whatsoever.

 

Maybe all i wrote is unecessary as it was t9 vs t10 but yeah i just wanted to point out that the AP didnt penetrate a single time in quite a few salvos. Im still waiting for a player that is using the german high tier cruiser to their full potential.

 

Glad that you enjoy the roon, ill definitely get my hands on them aswell eventually. Anyways thanks for the nice video, i enjoyed it!

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

Well, I'm also waiting for one Roon or Hindi player handing me my butt. However, I got few pretty scary hits from Roon and Hindi, but all were when I was distracted. 1 vs 1 was always ending with my Des sailing into the sunset. GE CA seems like a very nice support class. Not that they can't dish damage on their own, but they work best when they can pick their targets. Long range and good shell ballistics also seem to kinda confirm it. 

 

BTW, let me show you how my last fight with Roon (also a Des Moines, Mogami and Ibuki) ended:

 

[Tyrendian89]

sooo looking forward to Roon myself, especially considering how much I love the Hipper to death (#2 in average damage on EU with that apparently... I knew the ship was good in my hands, but that good? oops... pretty much the same surprise moment you had Flamu )

[VonPletz]

Wait, no german bias, russian developers, poor germans are screwed again by WG comments? I'm suprised!

 

Roon is hell of a opponent. Yesterday it took me quite long to take him out with my Des, he wasn't really good player, he just sailed full broadside with no manouvers, but my AP just couldn't penetrate his citadel for some reason. I know I had propably bad rolls or dispersion issues, but it can happen on occasions. On the other hand, when Roon catches you off-guard, and places a good salvo in your broadside - man, it hurts. 

 

As for the rest of your post, I agree with some of them, and disagree with other points (comparing stock ships? Why would anyone want to do it? Pensacola for example, absolutely thrash on stock, pretty decent when upgraded), but it is refreshing to actually see you sharing opinions withouh exclamation marks and german bias every sentence. Upvote from me.

 

You ask, why compare stock ships..?...because that is what most people play because once they fully upgrade they are on to the next level....

 

So, as for comparisons, the Roon is still in the bottom of the three cruiser lines.  Also, the Roon is designed for retreat not offense from the simple fact that the majority of its guns (2/3s) are in the rear versus the Baltimore with 2 in front and 1 in rear.  The one that is most balanced is the Ibuki with a 3-2 configuration even though the back of the front three you have to turn the ship more.  Also, I come back again the the Germans weak armor that is very much an insult to the "coffin cell" design developed by the Germans and used in all their larger ships from WW1 forward.  This cell design was a layered approach that used thinner armor with angles and cells (some levels were even filled with liquid) to better dissipate the impact of shells and reduced the damage to the ships very effectively.  However, WOWS has discounted this design and only went by armor thickness.....

 

I attach a diagram of the KMS Bayern for an example of the "coffin cell" design.

 

 

 

[VonPletz]

No doubt that you can judge ships really well but i have to say that im not fearing a roon while i play my zao, well yeah its t10 vs t9 afterall but yesterday was a nice example of a full HP roon vs my 16k HP zao, it was a pure 1v1 and the fight between us started after he popped up behind an island ( was 9km away at this point ), i simply took out his frontal armament with 2 salvos and after that he was lost. Besides that he did 8-11k ish dmg only by shooting AP at my zao while being 8km away from me which was quite underwhelming, it might have been luck or him not utilizing the roon properly but it wasnt a match for the zao whatsoever.

 

Maybe all i wrote is unecessary as it was t9 vs t10 but yeah i just wanted to point out that the AP didnt penetrate a single time in quite a few salvos. Im still waiting for a player that is using the german high tier cruiser to their full potential.

 

Glad that you enjoy the roon, ill definitely get my hands on them aswell eventually. Anyways thanks for the nice video, i enjoyed it!

 

FTD,

 

I would not fear a Roon either in a high top tier  IJN Cruiser like the Zao.  It is the best of all the Cruisers in my humble opinion.

 

The Zao is a fine ship that is very well balanced in armor, weaponry (cannon configuration), speed, maneuver ability, and it has really good torps with excellent range.  Not to mention it has good stealth as well for added ability.  It is by far my favorite of the Cruisers....WOWS really nerfed the Des Moines in the last patch update because they add arch to the Des Moines cannons and it feels like you are firing mortars at ships not cannon shells which definitely give a great ship like the Zao time to get out of the lead rain coming from the sky.  Then you can return fire with nice accurate low arch shells from your Zao...

 

 

[Shadow9043]

 

You ask, why compare stock ships..?...because that is what most people play because once they fully upgrade they are on to the next level....

 

 

 

I hate playing stock ships and get upgrades asap. Some ships are very bad at stock (aka Fuso) with its 13km range. Once fully upgraded it can handle itself OK even against T8. So comparing stock ships is stupid IMHO. 

 

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

 You ask, why compare stock ships..?...because that is what most people play because once they fully upgrade they are on to the next level....

But, why? You compare ships when they are fully upgraded, cause you play most of the games with upgraded ships. Of course you can compare stock ships, but that is very misleading. Stock Omaha is not so good. Or stock New Mexico. But when they're being fully upgraded, their performance skyrockets. You should never compare stock ships.

 

  Also, the Roon is designed for retreat not offense from the simple fact that the majority of its guns (2/3s) are in the rear versus the Baltimore with 2 in front and 1 in rear.  The one that is most balanced is the Ibuki with a 3-2 configuration even though the back of the front three you have to turn the ship more.

Well, to tell you the truth, the way I see CA playing right now, 1 turret on front is not a big issue. Most of your fights will be in a retreat, that's at least how I play my games most of the time. So, 2 turrets backwards are actually better. Of course this come at disadvantage when chasing opponents. I personally prefer 3/3/3 setting, 2 turrets on front or in the rear - for me it's irrelevant. 

 

 This cell design was a layered approach that used thinner armor with angles and cells (some levels were even filled with liquid) to better dissipate the impact of shells and reduced the damage to the ships very effectively.  However, WOWS has discounted this design and only went by armor thickness...

The armour layer is irrelevant in this game. Cause it doesn't change anything. When you fight a BB it doesn't help, when you fight CA's it doesnt help (front/back you're immune to citadels 99% of the time, broadside 99% will be citadeled). But, that's the case with every CA in this game. You think this cofffin scheme is in any way better then Des Moines armour layout? It's not, but in this game, it works the same. 

Also, the fact that this armour layout was being tested doesn't actually mean it was so great. Remember "pugliese" armour layout? Concept was sound and good, but it was still not really effective.

Although, I'm not an expert on armour, and I won't engage in specific discussion cause I just lack the knowledge. I do know US CA's armour layouts and resistance, and Des Moines was a absolute beast in this regards, but it's still as vulnerable as Roon.

 

 The Zao is a fine ship that is very well balanced in armor, weaponry (cannon configuration), speed, maneuver ability, and it has really good torps with excellent range.  Not to mention it has good stealth as well for added ability.  It is by far my favorite of the Cruisers....WOWS really nerfed the Des Moines in the last patch update because they add arch to the Des Moines cannons and it feels like you are firing mortars at ships not cannon shells which definitely give a great ship like the Zao time to get out of the lead rain coming from the sky.  Then you can return fire with nice accurate low arch shells from your Zao...

Not really. Zao is good when you fight less skilled opponents. Cause when the see a opponent they MUST shoot. So they chase this Zao which is 15 km away, geting hitted for 3k - 4k by Zao's guns, while not really doing any real damage themselves. Instead, they should just stop shooting and vanish. Zao is left with two options:

1. disengage entirely - which leaves Des Moines player free to move and engage different targets

2. turn around and close the distance - which is certain death for Zao. 

 

Also, again, Des wasn't nerfed last patch, it was nerfed when OBT was released. From that time it's guns weren't touched by game devs.