Torpedo Etiquette

[grant837]

The last weeks or so, I have been hit or was driven into a bad position because, mainly cruisers, launched torpedos from further back in the field (including when any enemy was far our of range) which I had to dodge or was hit by.  Every time they where unforgiving and offered no apology, or worse yet, said it was OK because they where focused only on hitting the enemy.   If this trend continues, Destroyers will become a much less effective player... and its simply not nice.  

 

Any comments or thoughts from the rest of the community?

[Crooq_Lionfang]

Accidents happen, it's always been like that and always will to some degree. But punishment for team damage is way too low, not encouraging players to pay attention to what they do. This is something that definitely has to change

[ArcheonSRF]

The golden rule is never, ever, ever under any circumstance fire torps across a friendly ships path.

 

Unfortunately cruiser captains often forget this, especially when aiming 6km torps at something 20km away.

[ukfuzz]

Unfortunately cruiser captains often forget this, especially when aiming 6km torps at something 20km away.

 

What she said.

[grant837]

Lets stick to WoW game play, and not our personal torpedo expectations  vs reality... haha

 

[red_eye1980]

Happened to me yesterday, and without me saying anything... the [edited] said, ´´it hurts, doesn´t it?´´, let alone apologizing

[EmilyFara]

I know exactly what you mean. At one game I had to dodge the torpedoes from the same guy about 3 times. The third time I had to dodge both enemy torps with my DD and friendly torps from that same [edited]. Decided not to give the enemy a kill he didn't deserve and gave my teammate the teamkill he deserved.

 

Oh the other hand, sometimes you want to torp, you wait for a friendly to pass so you can shoot your torps behind them and then they promptly turn around and run into them -_-.

In one game I saw a BB chasing a CL, shot the torps at the BB to help the CL. The BB suddenly turned around even though he couldn't see my torps coming for him. And what did the friendly CL do? Turned around as well. Warned him in chat, kept his new course and resulted into a tk -_-.

[mtm78]

Accidents happen, it's always been like that and always will to some degree. But punishment for team damage is way too low, not encouraging players to pay attention to what they do. This is something that definitely has to change

 

 

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[ShuggieHamster]

am fine with accidents, I've had a couple and was very sorry ...

but when an arrse in a tenryu rams you twice in 5 minutes, launches a spread of torps aimed through you then rams you again ... and you are a BB engaging enemies 12-14km away. then you have to wonder if there is any software working between that players ears!

[Spellfire40]

The golden rule is never, ever, ever under any circumstance fire torps across a friendly ships path.

 

Unfortunately cruiser captains often forget this, especially when aiming 6km torps at something 20km away.

 

Wich dont means nothing will turn into one CA Torp salvo when it wasnt directly in front by the time he shoot. Especally with IJN your sometimes in the situation were you can lanch area denial Torps and some Jokers in front sudenly do a 180 then goes balistik when he gets hit. IJN CA have Torps for a reason and its not to drive 2km  in front of a BB then turn and shows his citadels before he can make a lanch ,-)

[shulzidar]

The last weeks or so, I have been hit or was driven into a bad position because, mainly cruisers,

 

Well... It's all about how much you play your DDs... You get used to the general stupidity of cruiser-only players steering a torpedo cruiser. They aren't accidents, is simply the Big Number syndrome...

 

...The fact that the Atago sells have been good isn't helping neither... As a lot of unexperienced players suddenly see... "Hey! this thing does... 10k!!!! damage on a hit"... And are injected direcly into high Tier battles.

 

I have been sank plenty of times by friendly torpedos... And as far as I remember they have been always cruisers... The real joke is that the Tirpitz is ALSO same tier and has torpedos and I have still to suffer any accident or badly placed torpedo with friendly Tirpitz commanders... Internet Mysteries.

 

Aoba Commanders that just bought their ships are also "special", extremely easy to recognize, and a danger for anything that sails closer than 10k to them... You will see plenty of players doing all kind of stunts just to launch their freaking torpedos... While they usually end dead (or worse, kill friendlies) and if they simply just keep shooting and behaving as a real cruiser do... They will not only do more damage, but survive for longer and be less of an anoyance.

 

In time you just learn to not stay in front or take into account that even if you think that who in their sane mind will launch torpedos at 9k to an enemy DD with 2k hp left that you, as DD, in close quarters duel have been broadsiding and keeping in plain sight for a minute... Instead of shooting it... You are wrong, because for some esoteric reasson that CA commander will decide to launch the torps, sinking you and letting the enemy escape.

 

As I say each time it happens: "WG should simply remove torpedos from Cruisers... They are there just to make their commanders to take extra risks and to cause general griefing, in particular to DDs".

 

The tribute to this situation has been this recent change on the last patch... Friendly Fire Torpedos do half damage... Which I detest, because that way the stupid players will pay even less fines and the DDs on the receiving end will still be crippled... What WG should do is increasing the fines for Torpedo Friendly Fire so players are more carefull on how to shoot them.

 

 

[Bezbel]

I think we need to have a red line(or any other kind of warning) at torpedo launch view if the torps will be crossing with a friendly ships path

[mtm78]

I think we need to have a red line(or any other kind of warning) at torpedo launch view if the torps will be crossing with a friendly ships path

 

No we don't because ships sometimes turn. 

 

It's really simple, don't shoot torps where friendlies can even turn into. You can not predict what will happen, if they NEED to turn to avoid enemy torps or enemy gun fire they should NOT have to worry about players shooting torps from behind them. 

 

That red line would be meaningless. 

 

Edit: best way to say it I guess below; 

 

If you're so hungry for damage that you absolutely need to launch torps, then be a man and be in front of the others.

[shulzidar]

If you're so hungry for damage that you absolutely need to launch torps, then be a man and be in front of the others.

 

Amen to that.

 

I think we need to have a red line(or any other kind of warning) at torpedo launch view if the torps will be crossing with a friendly ships path

 

It will not work... I have seen CA commanders blindly shooting torps at the marker... Ignoring the Gigantic piece of stone that will intercept them because they fail to realize their target will go BEHIND the Island by the time their Torps Intercept them...

 

...Do you think players like that will care about any UI warning? (I think it's called Tunnel Vision by ppl that uses Firearms... You are so focused on your target that your brain literally fails to perceive anything surrounding it properly).

 

The fact that DD vs DD "incidents" are so dramatically low compared to CA vs Anything... Tells that it's simply a matter of lack of practice versus perceived impact (ie Big Numbers)... If those CA commanders spend some time using ONLY torpedos, their combat awareness regarding torpedo gameplay will improve and threads like this would be a rarity.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

The last weeks or so, I have been hit or was driven into a bad position because, mainly cruisers, launched torpedos from further back in the field (including when any enemy was far our of range) which I had to dodge or was hit by.  Every time they where unforgiving and offered no apology, or worse yet, said it was OK because they where focused only on hitting the enemy.   If this trend continues, Destroyers will become a much less effective player... and its simply not nice.  

 

Any comments or thoughts from the rest of the community?

 

Has been that way in Beta and ever since.

Just keep behind friendly cruisers of Tier 6 and below, because usually the players learn not to torp from second row at T6 or T7 - unless it's Atagos, which still are often commanded by T1 players

[ShuggieHamster]

Sometimes I think the best way to avoid hitting friendlies is to aim AT them. Certainly I miss the opposing team a lot (91%) and I'm aiming at them!

 

Seriously though you simply cant predict what a friendly is going to do at times. I'm down in T4 working up the IJN BB line but accidentally clicked on my Isokaze. Ok I thought lets have some fun. There was a wakatake in my team so I'll go back him up. Let him have a good game.

We go over to cap A. A Wyoming was heading our way I thought perfect, we sit back, and get him in a crossfire, Waka gets the kill, feels good.

Heck NO!

He launches from 10km away. Turning towards the BB, charges firing his guns. I have torps in the water but he cuts back into my solution. I'm screaming in chat but he ignores me, makes a close pass on the BB saved only by me opening up with my guns from 8km. as I get hammered I pop smoke and stop. he hurtles past the BB (who eats 5 of my torps) then charges a Karlsruhe who kills him stone dead.

Nothing he did could be predicted yet I know it would be my fault had I torped him.

 

Sometimes theres sod all you can do about your team mates!

[t3h3th32]

Unless penalty is applied, like the damage you cause on your friendlies with torps x10 in credits or at least full repair costs of the guy, you hit your torps with. Sadly, WG took exactly the opposite route and said: "look, torping your allies isn't any big deal, now, it only does 50% DMG, so feel free to torp your allies twice as much..", that's WG logic.

 

Cheers,

~t3h'Pâr4d0x

[EsaTuunanen]

If you're so hungry for damage that you absolutely need to launch torps, then be a man and be in front of the others.

And that's probably part of the problem because those second line torpers lack that proper set of balls and instead of taking battle to enemy try to hide behind own team ships.

 

I've literally seen (=avoiding) Omaha spamming 5km range torps to enemies 10km away while basically trying to avoid attacking and shooting enemy with guns.

Heck, I've seen Isokaze doing more with guns...

 

 

I have seen CA commanders blindly shooting torps at the marker... Ignoring the Gigantic piece of stone that will intercept them because they fail to realize their target will go BEHIND the Island by the time their Torps Intercept them...

 

...Do you think players like that will care about any UI warning? (I think it's called Tunnel Vision by ppl that uses Firearms... You are so focused on your target that your brain literally fails to perceive anything surrounding it properly).

How about just saying:

Smart as a bag of rocks.

The hard drive is spinning but the OS hasn't been installed.

Proof that evolution can go in reverse.

Lights are on, but there's no one behind the wheel.

Two years decayed seed potato in place of head.

 

Or maybe these would be more approriate:

Couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.

A few boats short of a fleet.

Not the fastest ship in the fleet.

Only has one oar in the water.

 

 

He launches from 10km away. Turning towards the BB, charges firing his guns. I have torps in the water but he cuts back into my solution. I'm screaming in chat but he ignores me, makes a close pass on the BB saved only by me opening up with my guns from 8km. as I get hammered I pop smoke and stop. he hurtles past the BB (who eats 5 of my torps) then charges a Karlsruhe who kills him stone dead.

Nothing he did could be predicted yet I know it would be my fault had I torped him.

At least he charged just crapruins...

I've seen Clemson trying to catch away going Cleveland.

[Azrael_Ashemdion]

Accidents are cool, I [edited]up occasionally myself.  

But torps are a special breed - you never fire them from behind someone else if you might hit them.  Especially if it's a DD between you, because of their wily turn rate.  Don't care if you're driving a Kitikame, if a friendly is somewhere in your view when you are launching torps, you'd better be sure they're heading *out* of the way when you cut loose.  And when you do, call them.  Announce in-chat that you've fired torps and call out the ship you're concerned about to let him/her know you've just dumped fish in the water.  

 

  Az

[EsaTuunanen]

And when you do, call them.  Announce in-chat that you've fired torps and call out the ship you're concerned about to let him/her know you've just dumped fish in the water.

During more intense action there's no time to read chat.

 

Maybe there could be voice communications shortcut which could be used to inform at least closest friendlies who launched torps and to what coordinates they'll reach.

Automatic message from every torpedo launch and also to ships in other end of map would just devalue it so that no one would pay attention after few times.

[mtm78]

During more intense action there's no time to read chat.

 

Maybe there could be voice communications shortcut which could be used to inform at least closest friendlies who launched torps and to what coordinates they'll reach.

Automatic message from every torpedo launch and also to ships in other end of map would just devalue it so that no one would pay attention after few times.

 

Not only that, there are people playing who don't speak English. Speaking English is not a game requirement so we can not expect everyone to be able to do it. Even more, you can disable chat ( I don't want my kid to read some of the more 'worrisome' conversations ). 

 

Saying you launched in chat basically only makes you feel better about yourself, because 'hey I warned him'. But in fairness, you just assume you did. But you don't know if he can even read chat, if he can read English, if he has the time to pay attention to chat or if enemy torps force him to turn anyway. 

 

Especially the last bit, you can not predict when someone has to turn and to which direction. So again: if you feel so desperate for damage to launch torps, be a man and do it from the front line and not from behind others.

 

There are exceptions, but they are very rare and they do not include most commonly found 'excuses'.

 

I don't think I would be able to use a voice warning for all torps launched by allies near me which I could intercept, it would be to much information to process. 

[shulzidar]

Especially the last bit, you can not predict when someone has to turn and to which direction.

 

You can... And it's an essential skill you have to develop as exclusive torpedo user, because the higher tier you play the less time you spend shooting at the marker and the more you spend "feeling the force" and shooting based on what you think the enemy will do instead of basing it on what it's doing...

 

...With friendlies is easier, it just requires practice and forward thinking... Precissely what CA cruisers that sporadically use Torps lack, they are just desperate to use the limited torpedo windows they can get and are going to shoot... Doesn't matter what.

 

In reality is very simple... "If I were in that guy's shoes, what I would do?" You start like that and slowly develop your "Torpedo Etiquete"... For example when I'm in a wolfpack, the point man shoots 1st and I always wait for his/her launch to perform mine to cover the "blindspots" he left or to attack other targets he didn't, not because I don't want to hit him, as I'm already maneuvering taking that into account, it's because I hate wasting torps (Specially when your next shot can take more than 1m to be rdy)

 

...All of this is possible because of a simple fact... I pay attention to what others do around me... And at its essence, that's the problem, you have players that pay 0 attention to anything that's not been targeted... And when that player is armed with a devastating weapon... crap will hit the fan sooner or later.

[mtm78]

Especially the last bit, you can not predict when someone has to turn and to which direction.

 

You can... And it's an essential skill you have to develop as exclusive torpedo user, because the higher tier you play the less time you spend shooting at the marker and the more you spend "feeling the force" and shooting based on what you think the enemy will do instead of basing it on what it's doing...

 

...With friendlies is easier, it just requires practice and forward thinking... Precissely what CA cruisers that sporadically use Torps lack, they are just desperate to use the limited torpedo windows they can get and are going to shoot... Doesn't matter what.

 

In reality is very simple... "If I were in that guy's shoes, what I would do?" You start like that and slowly develop your "Torpedo Etiquete"... For example when I'm in a wolfpack, the point man shoots 1st and I always wait for his/her launch to perform mine to cover the "blindspots" he left or to attack other targets he didn't, not because I don't want to hit him, as I'm already maneuvering taking that into account, it's because I hate wasting torps (Specially when your next shot can take more than 1m to be rdy)

 

...All of this is possible because of a simple fact... I pay attention to what others do around me... And at its essence, that's the problem, you have players that pay 0 attention to anything that's not been targeted... And when that player is armed with a devastating weapon... crap will hit the fan sooner or later.

 

No you can't. Simple. You can never predict the future, you don't know if enemy has fired torps, you don't know what get's spotted in 30 seconds ( or more with long range torps ) or if a BB is shelling your allies or well any number of things which might happen and which makes people want to turn, so how again can you predict the future?

 

Also, I don't think you should be trying to pull a 'skill' card on me 

[EmilyFara]

 

No you can't. Simple. You can never predict the future, you don't know if enemy has fired torps, you don't know what get's spotted in 30 seconds ( or more with long range torps ) or if a BB is shelling your allies or well any number of things which might happen and which makes people want to turn, so how again can you predict the future?

 

Also, I don't think you should be trying to pull a 'skill' card on me 

I actually agree with the guy you're quoting. As a DD player you start to see patterns in behaviour. Through deduction and map awareness you can deduct where enemies would probably be and where they would probably go. Now this isn't 100% correct all the time, that's true. But you can see patterns. For me with friendlies it's a lot harder, but I'm not that good.

 

One thing though. I didn't see him pull the 'skill' card and it seems that you are doing that now.

[mtm78]

Well 'honed practise over time' equals skill right, well in the sense how I meant it anyway 

 

And again, both of you seem to miss the part about friendlies, not enemies. Yes, enemies are easier to predict because you more often know more variables, with friendlies you don't know anything about the team trying to engage them ( enemies turn because your allies make them, or when objects/land mass makes them, or less often preemptively ). And since we are talking about shooting torpedo's from behind friendlies since one can predict the future and 'know' they will not turn the wrong way, I think saying that one actually can't predict the future is not that wrong?