The Last of the Mohicans

[DarwinAwards1859]

Please, do not read this if you are narrow minded, funboy, troll or something not invented yet...I am thinking your well being here, it's for your health... This can been seen as an article, instead of accusing it for wall of text. The modern Internet era were we need to apply more labels and aphorisms to things we don't understand. Anyway..

 

I don't know the future, but this is a wake up call in some regard.

I am researching things for games i like. So i'll give some facts and then make some speculations. I have been watching the development of this game for long now. I've never played WoT and i am saying this for another reason that is another topic by itself. I don't like p2w and Premium ammo/tanks/ships etc. The reason though i mention WoT though is to state that i didn't knew much about these Devs. Meaning, how they handle their games, supporters, costumers, how they respond to suggestions, feedback, player interactivity in general. If, you are someone that observes things in the world, in people, in marketing, in industry, you always see patterns, come to conclusions based on facts, not fiction or conspiracy theories. The truth, is what matters anyway in a world full of deception, isn't it?

 

Now, for this game. The game started and i entered CBT. So the question to start with would be, "What has changed?". Well, minor improvements i would say, major too but for a game that is now out as "Full release", minor. If this is a full product, well, there's your number one reason for why it may be headed to failure. But, player interactivity. Is there any from players towards the Devs, making suggestions, giving feedback etc.? Definitely. Players like the game, so they want it to get better and sustain an amount of ppl capable of holding it's numbers high as possible. That would be around 50k i guess, i was never an optimist and in this case the Devs have proven they don't have much planned for the long run. and even worst they do not respond to suggestions/feedback. They don't even have a "Suggestions/Feedback" Subforum in EU. That tells a lot!

 

While researching for plane games, i came across an article showing a graph of how World of Warplanes failed. For anyone that doesn't know it for some reason, the game officially is considered a failure. The article as reference, since we like facts, is here ( http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/04/11/why-is-world-of-warplanes-a-failure/ ). Quite old already, i wonder if Devs read things about their games and if they discuss them in-depth in their teammeatings. Then, how do you explain the success of WoT? Well, there's always stats, telemetry to be found but, the main reasons are that, there is space in the Genre. It's not a MOBA! That genre for example is full. And, the F2P model with, the implementation of Cash Shop that offers benefits in game to whoever pays real money. It's not a Cash Shop for cosmetics. Here you can actually purchase things that will give you advantages over others. It is a business model used by some Gaming Companies and sometimes it creates for them the "Milking cow" effect. Hearthstone did it too ( http://www.polygon.com/2014/5/9/5699178/hearthstone-pay-to-win ) . So it's not uncommon theme and you can see in the Hearthstone article that this is the very definition of P2W. No need to make up excuses. The writer though finds in the end a silver lining, or, he thinks he does. First off, in the long run the game will have more content, meaning the gap (similar to wage gap??..) between paying players and F2P accounts will remain big. Even more, the paying costumers will keep paying, the f2p accounts will keep being f2p. So, he actually misses the fact that the gap will never really close. The game is, very much so P2W, despite the RNGesus argument.

 

Here we have ships. Some may decide to buy them (btw, absurd pricing. 50-60 Euro for a virtual ship, that's an AAA title!), some not. The game is F2P, meaning you know people will play it for free. Isn't that the reason they decided a F2P model? Wider player base, not consumer base, player. And, if they like what they experience, they might help the game by paying. I have done it, but not for games that offer advantageous things over others. I guess it's where the ethical boundaries of each are placed. If one has, that is. A win is worth bragging about, if it's on equal terms. Like a game of chess. And in every case i hardly believe a cosmetic Cash Shop will bring the same profit for any quality game. Gamers want to show their appreciation for the game they are having fun with.

 

But i actually digress. The reason this game is failing is, the lack...the lack of content, complexity as iChase mentions ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6l2PxcV7WI ) and the player interactivity. At least in the EU forums. This is a graveyard. The are, tons of suggestions by players, yet there almost always no response by the Devs. Not only that, they are focused and determined in the Marketing area almost 100%. Fixing minor bugs, balancing etc. it is what we usually see from any game. So i am not impressed when that happens here as some YouTubers and ppl are. I am too old to know better. I get that PvE is difficult to co-exist with this business model they after, perhaps it's the fixation of the modern times in E-Sports. PC Gaming started from PvE, ppl still love it, we play Fallout because of it, not despite of it. We play Tomb Raider for it. The depth a game Dev decides to give to their game, makes the game a success or a failure. When you become a Developer and earn that title, please, do not stop to be a gamer. Yes, unfortunately i do think Developers become obsessed with success, like other Bankers, it's their fix and drug, in some cases at least.

 

I witnessed many collaborations in the last few months for this game. From Curse to Razer to the anime thing no one asked for. I'm not against it, it's just that everyone thinks it  is not a priority. "Well, what is a priority Jinlges tell us.." All right. The answer is not 42. The answer is in the Forums, people give feedback from Alpha and to this day. Why they give feedback? They like the damn game. "How the Devs react Jingles?". Silence of the lamps, more premium ships and another mode that wasn't a priority but may bring them closer to E-Sports. I am certain, at this point, Nosgoth will be a similar failure and close by will be Armored Warfare. For the same reasons all of them. btw, i like the guy (Jingles), but you will benefit more from ppl that play devils advocate. What you consider "negative" feedback, is actually the most constructive feedback you'll have in your lives.

 

People are giving feedback and suggestions because they like a game. There's a revelation for ya. Something they like and want to see it grow, develop into something better and better. They spend time and thought on it, they even keep notes, make calculations, all for free, for the freaking love of the game. Don't spit on it, think on them!! That's appreciation from your side Devs. Every "gift" has a trap. Go to his channel/stream and you'll get a ship for free. Really? He says i need to pay him! (Subscribe) Just to get a chance... Who do you think are the players that will be appealed by such offers? The ones that can afford to buy Premium ships and Doubloons to unlock the XP buy Credits etc. or the ones that actually have nothing and/or can't afford for much? I would call it exploitation of the consumer. The naive consumer though, in this age of information seems to becoming a species close to extinction. So, there's another reason i think these type of games will keep failing. The complete lack of content and the complete focus on marketing, rather real development of a game. Can you see a game staying in history because of that, really? Were is the quality if not in the depth. CS or Battlefield have it. Each in it's own special ways. And i mention these two because you see that they are as simplified as any game on this genre too.

 

Personally, even if i know for a fact some Premium ships are better than the normal/free ships, in terms of stats that is, i do not consider this a P2W game. One reason is, i do not care about competition, or PvP, or stats and so on. Stats only to understand were i might be wrong and how to improve and were. The thing that disappoints me is the compete lack of content and that the Devs never mention anything about modes, appealing new modes with innovation in mind. Is it so hard really? And why? You make accurate historic ship models and you never think of historic scenarios, maps that can evolve, even Cooperative Campaigns and a million things. I mean, it's not MMO's ofc, i do not expect a great innovation or variety from these games but there can be some.

 

There's actually a million other things one could discuss about, but i have not much faith in people to be able to discuss. Not in this age, not in my lifetime anyway. So, i just put my thoughts for the last time here and move on. I guess i'll be one of those that will be returning back whenever a "Major Update" comes out and i'll be hoping the peaks then will be the same, around 20k+. 

[OVanBruce]

Are you russian? y/n

 

There you have your answer.

 

BTW I read the whole thing. "Anime thing no one asked": it was announced ages ago but the only one that remembered were the Alphas since WG did never publicize their partnership with Ars Nova at least here in the west.

 

Finally, this game design model doesn't neccesarily need complexity. What it needs is a solid gameplay to make it fun.

 

 

[Blue_Bug]

Woh, what a wall of text.

 

On the main thing you are right. There is not enough content. It takes to long before new content is released. 

 

But please restrain your self from using words as "everybody" without naming a source. 

 

If you look carefully you will see that players feedback is taken into acount at the development. It is the job of the Comunity managers to collect it and send it to the developers. Sometimes you see even a post of a developer. So the forum is monitored and feedback is given to the developers. Where we come back to the first point, that it takes too long before we see anything of it in game.

 

Please note that this is my personal opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

[waxx25]

I disagree that this game is p2w, this game is pay-to-progress faster. No amount of real money spent will improve your chances at achieving a win. Everything else I completely agree with you. WOWP was a fail from day 1, especially when it's main competitor was warthunder. (have you actually played wowp? I tried it on beta and liked it then it got progressively worse). I have hopes for warships, it is very enjoyable although I fully support making aim assist for main batteries to be standard. Hopefully WG takes their head out of their behind and starts to listen to the player base. I unfortunately have learned a long time ago from WOT forums that the forums are for us players only and the only time the moderators show up is to BAN someone or on the rare occasions they are bored.

[Ast3lan]

Woh, what a wall of text.

 

On the main thing you are right. There is not enough content. It takes to long before new content is released. 

 

But please restrain your self from using words as "everybody" without naming a source. 

 

If you look carefully you will see that players feedback is taken into acount at the development. It is the job of the Comunity managers to collect it and send it to the developers. Sometimes you see even a post of a developer. So the forum is monitored and feedback is given to the developers. Where we come back to the first point, that it takes too long before we see anything of it in game.

 

Please note that this is my personal opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Please whatever you are smoking.. i want it too. 

 

The last time i saw a dev give info in a regular manner without seeing the playerbase ranting or rioting in the first place for whatever reason is so long ago that not even the dinossaurs remember it.

 

 

[mtm78]

I stopped reading after I noticed OP is using FTR as 'source' 

 

[Blue_Bug]

 

Please whatever you are smoking.. i want it too. 

 

The last time i saw a dev give info in a regular manner without seeing the playerbase ranting or rioting in the first place for whatever reason is so long ago that not even the dinossaurs remember it.

 

 

PM me your adress and I send you some..........

 

I'm sorry that I might be not clear enough. I didn't meant to give the impression that WG posts regulairy what they did with our feedback. I tried to make clear that our feedback is given to the developers, and that the Forum is also monitored for our feedback. Etcar posted multiple times that it is part of his job to do so.

 

The following post of Ev1n is even more clear about it  (post 13): http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/40225-cv-wg-did-it-congratulations/#topmost  

 

 It might be an idea that WG post what kind of feedback they give to the developers. But as already written, WG doesn't give much info about their future plans.

 

Edit : gramar

[Sonic_157]

Hello.

 

I read the OP's text and in some cases i disagree but there is one thing that i believe stands out.
It is the lack of communication between the developers/staff and the playerbase.

I cannot emphasize this enough, there are no answers to our questions, no heads-up info, no communication whatsoever.

A perfect example for this is this thread where we try to extract information for the game by the Russian forums with google translator!
An important info on game mechanics was discovered like that yesterday, by chance (the stacking of a skill with a module)!

 

Maybe it is time to start a thread demanding a Q&A with developers again. There was one that got closed in the summer...
Anyone to back me up on this?


p.s. A big thank you to forum member Takeda92 for his tireless efforts to contribute information and answers to all of us.

      Great job! Please keep it up!

 

 

[Talladega_Night]

it is very enjoyable although I fully support making aim assist for main batteries to be standard. 

 

why do people want aim assist to be standard, its not like its hard to aim. just gotta do a little bit of basic math to figure out lead. Aim assist would make things boring.

[ShuggieHamster]

 

why do people want aim assist to be standard, its not like its hard to aim. just gotta do a little bit of basic math to figure out lead. Aim assist would make things boring.

 

 people want immediate gratification. They dont want to invest time to get good, they want it and they want it now! Its seems to be just a thing in modern life.

 

last 20 years i've studied/taught medieval martial arts (12yrs) and practiced archery (8yrs) and i've seen hundreds of people take up both, express love, not get good quickly and quit. 

 

I suppose the ultimate destination of this is having a bot play the game for you. 

[D7v]

You can get so many advantages by paying faster. Premium ships are not that much better, they just have different roles.

 

In a game like this grinding is stupid. We are here to enjoy so I like the slow progress and keep on playing the ships I love. 

 

THE ONLY THING I HATE ABOUT THIS GAME IS THAT IT CAN BE MODDED, THIS IS HORRIBLE. game should be equal in everybody's screens when they look at. Modding leads to cheats and other things. On the other hand it is in the hands of Russians who I consider very intelligent people and I hope they find out these cheats easily and remove them. But it is much better to remove mods at all they won't reduce player count it will but increase.

[chazwozza]

The reason I'll stop playing and many like me is simple game balance the constant mismatches and loss after loss is just not fun 

It's the reason we stopped playing tanks and I'm a monkey's uncle if I'm going to repeat that again 

[caldark]

The reason I am going to stop playing for a bit is lack of RN.. Been playing quite a bit since alpha really but now I will hold out until the RN tree is in and maybe even until its a full tree.

I enjoy the game there are no game breaking issues with the game play or anything at the moment its just time for a rest until the game has more content.

[mtm78]

You can get so many advantages by paying faster. Premium ships are not that much better, they just have different roles.

 

In a game like this grinding is stupid. We are here to enjoy so I like the slow progress and keep on playing the ships I love. 

 

THE ONLY THING I HATE ABOUT THIS GAME IS THAT IT CAN BE MODDED, THIS IS HORRIBLE. game should be equal in everybody's screens when they look at. Modding leads to cheats and other things. On the other hand it is in the hands of Russians who I consider very intelligent people and I hope they find out these cheats easily and remove them. But it is much better to remove mods at all they won't reduce player count it will but increase.

 

 

If that were the case, WoWs would be without mods already just like WoT. In WoT the problem is much bigger than WoWs..

[Seaman_Staines1]

The reason I am going to stop playing for a bit is lack of RN.. Been playing quite a bit since alpha really but now I will hold out until the RN tree is in

And thats why I will continue to play this game. So when the RN tree is added I will hopefully be good at the game and do the RN justice.

---

 

[Whatever08152]

+1 for the effort put into this

[praetor_jax]

Am i the only one who thinks the idea of developers wasting their time answering every little wimp on the forum (or reddit, who talks about reddit?) is completely ridiculous?

 

This is not a lack of communication - if you produce a good you dont need to talk to everybody who might buy/use/be interested in it as every customer has a (sometimes drastically) different opinion on the matter.

They dont even need to show you that your feedback is heard by them since that might change the nature of your feedback to become manipulative.

Yes it would be nice to get feedback from the devs, but if you believe nothing is happening because they re not telling you what they re doing is just... (insert the r word if you want).

 

There are people on this forum that monitor your feedback, but why should they tell you what they re doing with it? Maybe they have guidelines on what to ignore or what they can tell people?

 

I get it that every single user on this forum is unique and special and an expert on marketing, softwareengineering and gamedesign - but shouldnt you spread your truth and prophecies of doom on facebook or whatever the cool kids use these days?

[von_Boeg]

Am i the only one who thinks the idea of developers wasting their time answering every little wimp on the forum (or reddit, who talks about reddit?) is completely ridiculous?

 

Not sure if you are alone or not, but I must say I disagree. It is not as the developers do not talk to players, it just that they are not talking to players here; on the RU server they seem to be much more involved in the conversations. I can find that a tad bit unfair when you concider that we are the ones paying for the RU server.

[praetor_jax]

 

Not sure if you are alone or not, but I must say I disagree. It is not as the developers do not talk to players, it just that they are not talking to players here; on the RU server they seem to be much more involved in the conversations. I can find that a tad bit unfair when you concider that we are the ones paying for the RU server.

Well of course they talk to people on the RU server, i thought that was obvious. I dont get why people are so upset about this - RU-community will have the same suggestions that we have, we re not special.

 

that we are the ones paying for the RU server.  - yeah, sure. We fund the entire RU-server through the bundles. Because everything else is so much cheaper. Sure. And you want to be taken seriously?

[mtm78]

 

Not sure if you are alone or not, but I must say I disagree. It is not as the developers do not talk to players, it just that they are not talking to players here; on the RU server they seem to be much more involved in the conversations. I can find that a tad bit unfair when you concider that we are the ones paying for the RU server.

 

I agree, it would be very nice if EU got their Q&A back as it will strengthen the ties between community and developers a lot by just having some visible recognition of EU's existence ( with regards to EU also wanting an opportunity to interact with the developers ).

 

But imo we're not paying for RU cluster, I think that's pretty self sufficient. If you wanted to say: 'I think it looks like profit margins on EU are a lot higher than on RU cluster' then I would have agreed that is at least looks that way. And I would add that I also assume EU has much higher operating costs then RU. EU salaries for one I think are quite a lot higher I assume. So while it looks like we're getting shafted with prices ( not talking about bundles or no bundles, just price differences ) I'm not capable of saying that is really the case or not.

[22cm]

 

But imo we're not paying for RU cluster, I think that's pretty self sufficient. If you wanted to say: 'I think it looks like profit margins on EU are a lot higher than on RU cluster' then I would have agreed that is at least looks that way. And I would add that I also assume EU has much higher operating costs then RU. EU salaries for one I think are quite a lot higher I assume. So while it looks like we're getting shafted with prices ( not talking about bundles or no bundles, just price differences ) I'm not capable of saying that is really the case or not.

 

Now, really?

 

NA: free Marblehead, free Mikasa, almost free Murmansk(1$).

Asia: free Kamikaze

EU?! I see bundles, bundles everywhere.

[von_Boeg]

But imo we're not paying for RU cluster, I think that's pretty self sufficient. If you wanted to say: 'I think it looks like profit margins on EU are a lot higher than on RU cluster' then I would have agreed that is at least looks that way. And I would add that I also assume EU has much higher operating costs then RU. EU salaries for one I think are quite a lot higher I assume. So while it looks like we're getting shafted with prices ( not talking about bundles or no bundles, just price differences ) I'm not capable of saying that is really the case or not.

 

I agree that it was a vulgar way to express myself, and naturally do we not pay for the Russian server as a whole. However, it is obvious that the Russian server would have had higher prices if ours were lower, do you not agree?

 

Besides, we already know why our prices are higher, or, at least we know why WG SAY they are higher, and that has nothing to do with EU overheads. Also, the bundles ARE the price, from WG standpoint it does not matter if the user have Premium or Flags or Camo or whatever, they do not lose anything by adding those assets in order to raise the price.

[von_Boeg]

Well of course they talk to people on the RU server, i thought that was obvious. I dont get why people are so upset about this - RU-community will have the same suggestions that we have, we re not special.

 

No, they will not. For one thing, they will not adress the question of the Russian bias in the game.

[mtm78]

 

Now, really?

 

NA: free Marblehead, free Mikasa, almost free Murmansk(1$).

Asia: free Kamikaze

EU?! I see bundles, bundles everywhere.

 

Like I said I am discounting bundles but only looking at approx. monetary value of ships. I can't find it now but a forumite made a post where he shown that the differences in per ship prices are not that large ( and as I said, I'm discounting bundles atm ).

 

Also, if 'we' EU hate those bundles as much as some are making it out to be, how can EU be paying for RU if we only have 'bundles who no one buys'?

 

And NA is just the spoiled brat of the WG family, it once started and now it's out of control with them 'demanding' the freebies. 

 

Ofc I'm over simplifying but so are you.

 

 

I agree that it was a vulgar way to express myself, and naturally do we not pay for the Russian server as a whole. However, it is obvious that the Russian server would have had higher prices if ours were lower, do you not agree?

 

Besides, we already know why our prices are higher, or, at least we know why WG SAY they are higher, and that has nothing to do with EU overheads. Also, the bundles ARE the price, from WG standpoint it does not matter if the user have Premium or Flags or Camo or whatever, they do not lose anything by adding those assets in order to raise the price.

 

I think we should approach the bundle issue separately, mixing it with general price differences in regions runs the risk of making bundles the 'lesser evil' or the part which doesn't get the attention it deserves.  Per ship monetary value is what creates price differences, and regional marketing staff is what is creating in which fashion they are sold. 

 

I'm having some troubles expressing myself I feel, the point I want to make is that if you combine the problems they are bigger then their sum, but their still separate issues. 

[von_Boeg]

I'm having some troubles expressing myself I feel, the point I want to make is that if you combine the problems they are bigger then their sum, but their still separate issues. 

 

I see your point, and if you look at it from the perspective of the player it is reasonable to discuss it as separate issues. However, from the perspective of WG it does not matter what the bundle contains (there are no actual products that cost money involved), it is just the price they are getting that is interesting. I can see reasons for discussing it from both perspectives.