Impact of submarines

[homerNEIN]

Since the arp sub was spotted in the ingame files, or better said in the tech tree in the wg modpack from ru, I would like to hear your opinion about the impact if there were subs in the game.

 

Personally I think the game would not change that mich, Since dds (IJN) are like submarines (invisible and torpedos of death) 

 

I attached the file where you can see the "characteristics" of the submarine.

[ironhammer500]

Subs wouldnt do as much as people  think, there will need to be rules like no under water capping or anything like that. Limited time under water...dont forget they move very very slow under water like 10-17 knts max.

[ScratxNeko]

Iona's probably just for visuals or as a special event NPC ship something. ... Plus, the Ars Nova after Takao does her thing is plenty capable of surface action.

 

Not going to say more because spoilers.

[Pekoe_Darjeeling]

BB's would have hard time fighting subs, I imagine 1v1

 

[AgarwaenME]

6-8kn submerged speed makes even the langley look like a speedboat. They just have no business in an actual fleet battle, but preying on supply ships before and after, or attacking damaged ships after.

[Boevebeest]

If this is real, I have no words for it.

 

First they said subs where no option for the game.

Then they said they where thinking about it.

Now if this is true, the seem to be working on them.

 

I have no problems with the introduction of subs to the game.

I do have a really big problem with them working on them at this moment.

 

The development of a a complete new class takes a lot of time, man power and money. They might use the Chinse WoWS clone as a blueprint, but still it sucks up a massive amount of resources.

Or they lied to us when they said subs where no option or something for the far future and where secretly working on them.

Or they buckled to the whining of the community.

 

Now I like to see subs in the game at one point, I really do.

But for the love of everything holy.

Let them first fix more pressing issues before spending all these resources.

Put the devs on the CV issue, balance issue, performance issue and all the other broken issues this game has before investing in a new class bringing even more problems in the game.

 

Subs won't bring back the players that have left, and it won't make people start playing if they haven't already.

 

I really do think there is a place for subs in this game, but FFS fix the current problems before starting a new project.

[AgarwaenME]

It's a specific ship for a special event/mode that you do not have to play that you have no way to say will even be submerging (actually it definately won't as the client does not support it). It's not going to take away resources used for other issues because people doing modelling are not the same people that do game balancing, nor the same people doing texturing.

 

People have different jobs, and it's very possible to have an event team work on this things while different teams work on the new trees and other game fixes.

[Reind0Hearsion]

Can't imagine subs becoming a thing because WG appeals to the more casual player base. (Yeah I said it!)

Just picture your average 12y/o asking about depth charges, active and passive radar WHILE he can't even see what's in front of him.

Yes I'm looking at friendly fire torp salvos on some of the the small maps. Or DDs ramming my BB while I can't turn my side to the enemy.

We already saw what happens if they make a game moderately hard, look at warplanes.

[SkybuckFlying]

I think it would make the game way more cool ! ;) =D

[Un1eash]

nowdays  DDs is almost the same with sub , torpedo from no where and no CV spotting them..(hope they 're back in this patch) it not that much impact coz they are slower , less dmg ,take time to reach BBs and oxygen is required.

[Francois424]

If they are ever to be implemented in the game, they should do it like that other Chinese game.  With minor adjustment it would do well.

It would be the only ship class that can release one torpedo at a time (think like a cruiser with 6 gun bars and individual reloads, except subs would have that with torpedoes).

They would use a mechanics like the smoke mechanics but it would be called dive instead and both slow you down and prevent you from using guns/AAA.

Sonar would need to be default on DD (and or CL?) to help hunt them down.

 

Submarines would be another type of DD, but in order to cap they should not be submerged for balance reasons.

Can it be done ?  of course.  Should it?  Maybe....  We still have some balance issues with the current classes, and it's too soon to tell if the CV changes will bring them back to make AAA boats useful again.

But it *could* work very well... and if anyone can stomach being as quick as a BB in a boat as weak as a DD, then that will be the class for them.

 

[Boevebeest]

It's a specific ship for a special event/mode that you do not have to play that you have no way to say will even be submerging (actually it definately won't as the client does not support it). It's not going to take away resources used for other issues because people doing modelling are not the same people that do game balancing, nor the same people doing texturing.

 

People have different jobs, and it's very possible to have an event team work on this things while different teams work on the new trees and other game fixes.

 

And a NPC doesn't need to be balanced or tested before implemented? So it is only a piece of scenery?

[SkybuckFlying]

I'd prefer if submarines had a dash as symbol instead of triange like so: -

 

It would also be cool if there was an underwater view... with sea and bubbles and stuff.

[Aldramelech]

Before the other ship game came out, i'd have said no, can't be done, but now? Well they seem to work there apparently.

 

It would be interesting, especially as it would give DD's something else to do, they would have to behave in a more realistic manner and actually protect friendly ships rather then go racing off on their own trying to hunt BB's all the time. The threat of the submarine would actually have more actual impact on the gameplay then the effect of the submarine itself.

[ShuggieHamster]

Subs would probably be most effective in the end game. Sitting in ambush ... Will a ship enter the engagement zone ... Will you get any xp? Tense, boring, screaming terror that passing dd will spot you.... Not sure my blood pressure can handle being a submariner 

[Captain_Edwards]

6-8kn submerged speed makes even the langley look like a speedboat. They just have no business in an actual fleet battle, but preying on supply ships before and after, or attacking damaged ships after.

 

Depends on the sub. IIRC the USN Gato class did 12kts submerged and 30 (ish) kts on the surface. The deck guns on subs where pretty useless in combat and only really used for attacking merchant ships in surface actions. But yeah subs in WoWS would be pretty stupid imo. As someone who has played Silent Hunter the ethos of a sub just does not cut it for WoWS. Subs are not for fast paced action. They are slow, methodical vessels that are really only for solo sneak attacks (USN) or wolfpack attacks (Ger). IJN didnt even use theirs properly during the war. And the Russians barely had any at all.

 

Plus the tech tree would be pretty crap as German subs where basically upgrades on the the same hull variation.

 

 

In short; Really dumb idea.

[xCaptainObviousx]

 Impact of submarines?

 

About a 1 meter deep crater in the seabed?

[RoyalColor]

The sub posted by op is from the current anime event and has nothing to do with the new class being implemented to the game.

 

During last live Q&A with game producer in Gdynia, it has been very strongly emphasized that subs aren't planed at all.

 

Reasons being that

1. Historically subs were never intended (and still aren't) to combat other war vessels. Disruption of naval routes and intelligence gathering were their main purposes. Yes, subs sunk many warships during both wars, but most encounters were accidental, not that subs chased BBs (kinda impossible with 7 knots submerged and 14 surfaced). 

2. During early game development process several submarine class solutions were tested and none of them fit in the game.

[MudMonkey]

The only thing where I see subs, is in PvE missions. For missions where you have to defend a convoi that wants to support the spreading of democracy against some filthy U-Boots. I guess that could be fun. But as we all know there is no sophisticated PvE system in WoWS. Therefore they just don't fit into the system as it is now.

[Historynerd]

 

Depends on the sub. IIRC the USN Gato class did 12kts submerged and 30 (ish) kts on the surface. 

 

Um... where did you get these info? AFAIK, the Gato-class could make 21 knots surfaced and 9 knots submerged, in line with the other US submarines.

 

 And the Russians barely had any at all.

 

If you mean their impact was minimal, can't dispute.

But by numbers alone you're wrong. Even though many were of the coastal type and therefore of little use, the USSR fleets operated some 277 submarines during the war.

 

In any case, I agree with the sentiment. Subs were not primarily made for fighting other warships, and were not organic parts of any battlefleet, therefore they shouldn't be in the game.

 

[Captain_Edwards]

 

Um... where did you get these info? AFAIK, the Gato-class could make 21 knots surfaced and 9 knots submerged, in line with the other US submarines.

 

 

If you mean their impact was minimal, can't dispute.

But by numbers alone you're wrong. Even though many were of the coastal type and therefore of little use, the USSR fleets operated some 277 submarines during the war.

 

In any case, I agree with the sentiment. Subs were not primarily made for fighting other warships, and were not organic parts of any battlefleet, therefore they shouldn't be in the game.

 

 

Silent Hunter series. Its a submarine sim game. TBH its a while since I played so I might be in error.

[Historynerd]

 

Silent Hunter series. Its a submarine sim game. TBH its a while since I played so I might be in error.

 

Well, in Silent Hunter IV: Wolves of the Pacific (I think that's the one you mean), the situation doesn't change from the values I've known:

 

Gato class submarine (1941)
20.25 knots surfaced
8.75 knots submerged

 

AFAIK, excluding some experimental or innovative submarine that didn't show up in numbers, all the submarines of WWII were no faster than 20-21 knots (some were quite slower, like the Italian ones, only 15-16 knots tops).

[Captain_Edwards]

 

Well, in Silent Hunter IV: Wolves of the Pacific (I think that's the one you mean), the situation doesn't change from the values I've known:

 

Gato class submarine (1941)
20.25 knots surfaced
8.75 knots submerged

 

AFAIK, excluding some experimental or innovative submarine that didn't show up in numbers, all the submarines of WWII were no faster than 20-21 knots (some were quite slower, like the Italian ones, only 15-16 knots tops).

 

You know what, I just realised its the officer skills thats messing with my memory. There is the chief mechanic skill that gives you more juice out of the batteries submerged so you can make 12kts.

 

And I meant SH4 + Uboat expansion and also SH5.

[Kirasa]

If they are ever to be implemented in the game, they should do it like that other Chinese game.  With minor adjustment it would do well.

It would be the only ship class that can release one torpedo at a time (think like a cruiser with 6 gun bars and individual reloads, except subs would have that with torpedoes).

They would use a mechanics like the smoke mechanics but it would be called dive instead and both slow you down and prevent you from using guns/AAA.

Sonar would need to be default on DD (and or CL?) to help hunt them down.

 

 

Submarines would be another type of DD, but in order to cap they should not be submerged for balance reasons.

Can it be done ?  of course.  Should it?  Maybe....  We still have some balance issues with the current classes, and it's too soon to tell if the CV changes will bring them back to make AAA boats useful again.

But it *could* work very well... and if anyone can stomach being as quick as a BB in a boat as weak as a DD, then that will be the class for them.

 

 

 

The CV changes are a joke. You won't see many of those again before we have the IJN Strike backs back on all Tiers.

 

 

As for subs:

They are like Bismarck.

Or Tirpitz.

Or Hood.

 

Way too many rosecolored images of them floating around and when they arrive people will be disappointed.

Ever tried sailing around on one of the larger maps with 8kn? 1/4th speed for a lot of ships. Just try it. For two Minutes.

You will hate it.

 

 

And I'm not even talking about "Hey, someone has to cap A right now"

[Shaka_D]

I'd prefer if submarines had a dash as symbol instead of triange like so: -

 

It would also be cool if there was an underwater view... with sea and bubbles and stuff.

 

Battlestations Pacific did subs very well, was non technical so appealed to casual gamers too, in fact they did subs way better than Steel ocean does them now.

Options could include: Limited submerged time before air replenishment, periscope view, varying submerged depths to avoid detectability but speed is limited underwater and once again air limitations apply.