Brett50 Beta Tester 236 posts 3,050 battles Report post #1 Posted December 23, 2015 Had a battle in a Kongo in co-op to see just how bad the rudder shift nerf was and it felt pretty painful, to see it from the other side I then played a random battle in my Minekaze and just spammed torps at a Fuso from outside detection range, even though he was constantly changing speed and trying to turn it took me only 2 torp salvos to do enough damage including flooding to kill him from 100%, with no one else firing at him. I actually felt dirty, there was nothing that poor Fuso could do extra to defend himself, he just couldn't physically turn enough to avoid the torps. Guess I'm not going to be playing any BB's for a while Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Msiiek Players 465 posts 5,330 battles Report post #2 Posted December 23, 2015 Did forget about this nerf until noticed this thread (was playing montana). Nerfs can be countered by module upgrades and bbs still really strong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett50 Beta Tester 236 posts 3,050 battles Report post #3 Posted December 23, 2015 they also nerfed the detection range of torpedo's now so you'd have to spend 2M credits on more equipment to stand a chance, with the 1M rudder shift equipment, that's 3m credits just to make a BB playable..... that also means you then can't mount the -15% flooding/fire time equipment so you now get the choice of either getting torped to death or burning to death Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capra76 Players 5,001 posts 7,787 battles Report post #4 Posted December 23, 2015 Isn't this how the game is supposed to work? Unescorted BB should be easy prey for IJN DD. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett50 Beta Tester 236 posts 3,050 battles Report post #5 Posted December 23, 2015 but this is also going to make BB's just camp at the back even more, if any BB tries to tank damage for his team and actually push forward he's going to get punished for it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LMN118 Players 243 posts Report post #6 Posted December 23, 2015 Isn't this how the game is supposed to work? Unescorted BB should be easy prey for IJN DD. If it is it is a flawed premise, not one team is every going to have the teamwork required to mount an effective torpedo screen to spot torpedoes in time, bearing in mind I've not tried it yet the download and installation was incredibly slow for me just getting in now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fonfalks Players 539 posts 11,322 battles Report post #7 Posted December 23, 2015 BBs are fine in fact more then fine. I play with Kagero and i can tell you this - every BB captain with decent skills can avoid being hit by a torp. Yes there can be situations where its hard but then again if there would be no such situations BB would rule the seas and everyone else could just @@@@ off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bezbel Players 66 posts 2,583 battles Report post #8 Posted December 23, 2015 Had a battle in a Kongo in co-op to see just how bad the rudder shift nerf was and it felt pretty painful, to see it from the other side I then played a random battle in my Minekaze and just spammed torps at a Fuso from outside detection range, even though he was constantly changing speed and trying to turn it took me only 2 torp salvos to do enough damage including flooding to kill him from 100%, with no one else firing at him. I actually felt dirty, there was nothing that poor Fuso could do extra to defend himself, he just couldn't physically turn enough to avoid the torps. Guess I'm not going to be playing any BB's for a while I feel the same when I go out with my New Mexico and kill a cruisers with 1 salvo It feels dirty indeed but that is how the rock/paper/scissors system works Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DUDS] Crooq_Lionfang Beta Tester 1,999 posts 6,434 battles Report post #9 Posted December 23, 2015 My BBs feel pretty much like they used to before the patch. How big (in seconds) is the change on Kongo exactly? Havn't really done much comparison of numbers pre- and post patch, but what I saw wasn't big. However, my Arkansas got a big buff, as it now has a module that detects torps 20% sooner than it used to Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BLOBS] Spellfire40 Beta Tester 5,330 posts 13,776 battles Report post #10 Posted December 23, 2015 Had a decent game in my warspite and i try to close to 7.2 km for 2edary fire. Didnt feel that much worse mayhaps its a isume more with the faster BBs? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Msiiek Players 465 posts 5,330 battles Report post #11 Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) People forget that bbs have 5 health potions now? And 20% torp detection doesnt helping if you didnt turn in advance you will eat torps anyway Edited December 23, 2015 by Msiiek Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DUDS] Crooq_Lionfang Beta Tester 1,999 posts 6,434 battles Report post #12 Posted December 23, 2015 If you react immediately you can still avoid 3-4 out of 5 torps with the module, unless you were in the middle of turning in the wrong direction Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WWladCZ Players 200 posts 9,103 battles Report post #13 Posted December 23, 2015 The rudder shift nerf is not that bad but the dispersion/overpens everywhere are much worse problem. BBs do not need to be mobile but they should definetly be able to hit at mid to close range and do damage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capra76 Players 5,001 posts 7,787 battles Report post #14 Posted December 23, 2015 If it is it is a flawed premise, not one team is every going to have the teamwork required to mount an effective torpedo screen to spot torpedoes in time, bearing in mind I've not tried it yet the download and installation was incredibly slow for me just getting in now. Maybe it is a flawed premise, but rock paper scissors is the basis of the game and without the paper it isn't much of a game. 123....Rock - Rock, try again...... 123....Rock - Rock, try again...... 123....Rock - Rock, try again...... 123....Rock - Rock, try again...... 123....Rock - Rock, zzzzzzzzzz......... I think the problem is USN DD can't do their job and counter IJN DD, which gives them free reign to stealth torp the BB, who respond by hiding at the back and sniping. If USN DD could counter IJN DD they could escort BB who could push forwards, as the game is at the moment 1/2 the time the USN DD rush forward to cap then get slaughtered by IJN DD spotting for their CA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
praetor_jax Beta Tester 1,266 posts 4,216 battles Report post #15 Posted December 23, 2015 I think this is mostly or only a problem in lower tiers where BBs turn like cathedrals anyway and have no planes. I guess there will be more Minekaze sealclubbers in the future. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thepasty Players 128 posts 1,017 battles Report post #16 Posted December 23, 2015 Or the BB'S could work with the CA's more as they're intended too? kinda promotes more team play. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBS Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters 2,556 posts 1,924 battles Report post #17 Posted December 24, 2015 Strange, I barely felt anything when I played my Kongi earlier today. I seem to have no trouble evading torps. Maybe it is because I play a lot of DD's and know what to look out for/how to avoid them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[RN] indycar Alpha Tester 921 posts Report post #18 Posted December 24, 2015 but this is also going to make BB's just camp at the back even more, if any BB tries to tank damage for his team and actually push forward he's going to get punished for it if 1 decides to push yses but if 2-3 decide to do so with some cruiser escort well thats another story.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NAVOC] Niibler Players 723 posts Report post #19 Posted December 24, 2015 it took me only 2 torp salvos to do enough damage including flooding to kill him from 100%, with no one else firing at him. I actually felt dirty I fail to see the difference between this and a BB sinking a cruiser in one or two salvos... Maybe you also feel dirty about that and then it's all good. And don't get me started on what is required for a DD successfully torp a BB versus what a BB needs to do to successfully obliterate a cruiser in one salvo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bazzarac Players 71 posts 4,170 battles Report post #20 Posted December 24, 2015 if 1 decides to push yses but if 2-3 decide to do so with some cruiser escort well thats another story.... If only this could be somehow arranged, especially in higher tiers, i have played the jap BB line to the top, and the amount of times cruisers don't rush ahead and actually stay with the BBs can be counted without taking my shoes off. Sadly there is no reward for escorting/guarding against Airstrikes/spotting torps and sailing near eachother, while fending off attacks, so unless WG implements something to this effect we won't see it. Bazz Masta Slacka Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett50 Beta Tester 236 posts 3,050 battles Report post #21 Posted December 24, 2015 I fail to see the difference between this and a BB sinking a cruiser in one or two salvos... Maybe you also feel dirty about that and then it's all good. And don't get me started on what is required for a DD successfully torp a BB versus what a BB needs to do to successfully obliterate a cruiser in one salvo. I mostly play Cruisers and I know as long as I keep near my max range then I can keep dancing around and BB's will rarely get many shots on me, it's only if the BB plays well and catches you unaware or if you blunder too close that you get wrecked that quickly so if I do kill a cruiser in a few salvo's I know either I have played well or he has played badly. when I play my minekaze I just feel sorry for BB's, i know that they'll never see me and will not be able to turn in time to avoid my torps mostly, the only thing i really fear are gunboats like USN, Russian DD's Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gary1701 Beta Tester 51 posts 17,695 battles Report post #22 Posted December 24, 2015 (edited) Gents, I agree that if a regular DD player (which I am) plays battleships then they know how to avoid ambush situations a lot more. I only play the Fuso occasionally and I don't get ambushed by a complete salvo like so many BB players. I've often been chased across the map by a DD towards the end of a match and it's not normally the DD that gets me, it's the others that I'm being lit up for. I'm not a good DD player but last night I took the Minekaze out for a spin and downed both Fuso's and the Colorado in the enemy team, plus two DD's. Just quick dash in and retreat salvo torpedo fire, and they took multiple salvos too sink so they knew I was around, and still straight and level... Gary Edited December 24, 2015 by Gary1701 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NAVOC] Niibler Players 723 posts Report post #23 Posted December 24, 2015 All cool stories, I think this thread is a little biased starting with the tittle though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zombie_Wizard Players 68 posts 5,774 battles Report post #24 Posted December 24, 2015 The funny thing is that, according to the patch notes, the kongo's rudder shift time wasn't changed at all, since only ships above 35000 tons displacement are affected. Seems to me OP is suffering from nocebo effect ^^ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DUDS] Crooq_Lionfang Beta Tester 1,999 posts 6,434 battles Report post #25 Posted December 24, 2015 The funny thing is that, according to the patch notes, the kongo's rudder shift time wasn't changed at all, since only ships above 35000 tons displacement are affected. Seems to me OP is suffering from nocebo effect ^^ Upgraded Kongo was above 35.000 tons, at least historically Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
