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Stugga

RU medium tier DDs completelly dominate over other DDs

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As the title says...

 

RU medium tier DDs completelly dominate over other DDs, esp. Kiev and Bliskawica's. Even at close range, there's no way you brawl with them, even in a US DD and not die. Their firepower and HP pool is out of proportion.

 

Ok, I read Kiev's HP is being reduced next patch. What about Bliskawica's?  Can we compare this ship with the Sims?  --> LOL

 

And what about their firepower? They do huge dmg with their HE or they have such good shell trajectory, travel time and dispersion that they get way too many hits per volley. In any case, it's out of proportion.

Edited by Stugga

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Just wanted to mention that Blyskawica is not a soviet ship but a polish ship. :P 

 

Yeah, I put them in the same RU line, I don't think they will be separate Polish line, maybe I'm wrong :p

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Kiev is prone to lose turrets, but even without that, a well played US DD can and will win a dogfight against it.

 

Dont fight > 4-5 km and US wins due to superior ROF. Tried it from both sides. As for INJ ships, we all know they dont want to fight except torp alley.

Edited by GulvkluderGuld
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Just wanted to mention that Blyskawica is not a soviet ship but a polish ship. :P 

 

That's OK - Polish people don't mind being mistaken for Russians. :hiding:

 

ON TOPIC

Yes, as SHIPS  the Kiev and Blyskawica are stronger gunboats than their Japanese and USN counterparts, but as pure destroyers they are rather more limited - the Russians in particular - by inferior torpedo performance..

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Dont fight > 4-5 km and US wins due to superior ROF. Tried it from both sides. As for INJ ships, we all know they dont want to fight except torp alley.

 

By the time you close up to 4km you are dead. Unless you tell me, you only fight them when you meet them around an island. Till then, you just put your tail under your [edited]and retreat.

 

Anyway, I'm not saying nerf them to oblivion. I understand US DDs are jack of all trades. Their torps got kinda buffed and now are a little behind IJN DD torps, with the later being still better ofc, being more dmg-ing, more in nrs, etc.

 

The same kinda balance I'd expect to exist between RU DDs (and Blyskawica) and US DDs as per the US DDs are gunboats too after all. But at the moment their gap when it comes to gunning, is huge.

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ON TOPIC

Yes, as SHIPS  the Kiev and Blyskawica are stronger gunboats than their Japanese and USN counterparts, but as pure destroyers they are rather more limited - the Russians in particular - by inferior torpedo performance..

 

I wouldn't mind giving them more torp range, say 5,5-6km even at medium tiers as long as you bring US DDs guns (aweful arc/travel time) a bit on par.

 

As it stands now there is quite an imbalance.

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By the time you close up to 4km you are dead. Unless you tell me, you only fight them when you meet them around an island. Till then, you just put your tail under your [edited]and retreat.

 

First let me agree with you that RU dd stats atm are a bit too good. Whether that is due to the ships being OP or people not knowing how to deal with them is more than i can say.

 

However, US dds are far better knifefighters and far better at capping than RU dds.

You imply RU dds have a choice of terrain. Most fights around capture points i get into take place at such ranges, and there are plenty of islands at those points.

Sometimes the RU dds will have to cap, despite not wanting to get into that kind of terrain. Wait for it and fight it there, instead of in the open.

 

My experience from both sides of the fight under those circumstances says US dds win. Any smart RU captain would turn and run.

The problem most US dds captains have is they choose to give chase, thereby becoming predictable. If they simply shoot and dodge unpredictably, they can easily outtrade the RU dd. 

US dds have better ROF, far better maneuverability and more gun turrets (when RU dds have a turret knockout, they lose 2 guns).

 

FInally, US dds can reach much better concealment values than RU dds can.

Thus they should be already close to or inside the 6 km line before the RU dd can get its guns pointed in the right direction.

 

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You shouldn't really see the USSR DD line as DDs but more like CL's. They have quite a bit of fire power and when they go into a toe to toe shelling match with an USN DD they will win. But what I experienced to be a good counter for it is spotting for your CA's and then sit just outside your spot range. He'll die without you having to expose yourself to his guns. Not to mention that from tier 5 and up their spotting range increase when firing a gun isn't 3.9km like with USN / IJN DD's but 5.9km. So the moment they open fire they will be spotted by any cruiser in shooting range and they don't have an invisible shoot capability without using smoke. But they have speed to compensate.

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First let me agree with you that RU dd stats atm are a bit too good. Whether that is due to the ships being OP or people not knowing how to deal with them is more than i can say.

 

However, US dds are far better knifefighters and far better at capping than RU dds.

You imply RU dds have a choice of terrain. Most fights around capture points i get into take place at such ranges, and there are plenty of islands at those points.

Sometimes the RU dds will have to cap, despite not wanting to get into that kind of terrain. Wait for it and fight it there, instead of in the open.

 

My experience from both sides of the fight under those circumstances says US dds win. Any smart RU captain would turn and run.

The problem most US dds captains have is they choose to give chase, thereby becoming predictable. If they simply shoot and dodge unpredictably, they can easily outtrade the RU dd. 

US dds have better ROF, far better maneuverability and more gun turrets (when RU dds have a turret knockout, they lose 2 guns).

 

FInally, US dds can reach much better concealment values than RU dds can.

Thus they should be already close to or inside the 6 km line before the RU dd can get its guns pointed in the right direction.

 

 

I agree to the above, both (RU and US) are situational when it comes to facing each other, with RU having the advantage of open space and longer range combat (which is very often the case when they are escorting/supporting their flotilla (teammates) and US having an advantage when it comes to knife fighting around caps, esp if there are small islands etc involved.

 

The problem is, and hence  the imbalance, is that RU DDs (and Bliskawica) have such fast shell travel time and good shell trajectory that they achieve so many hits, even in a close quarters knife fight that favors US DDs that can completely own that engagement as well in many cases, whereas you won't see a US DD being "so lucky" doing so if it meets a RU DD in the open...

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You shouldn't really see the USSR DD line as DDs but more like CL's. They have quite a bit of fire power and when they go into a toe to toe shelling match with an USN DD they will win. But what I experienced to be a good counter for it is spotting for your CA's and then sit just outside your spot range. He'll die without you having to expose yourself to his guns. Not to mention that from tier 5 and up their spotting range increase when firing a gun isn't 3.9km like with USN / IJN DD's but 5.9km. So the moment they open fire they will be spotted by any cruiser in shooting range and they don't have an invisible shoot capability without using smoke. But they have speed to compensate.

 

Is what I (and most others) do, but what happens when they sit at 12+km range happily shooting at your teammates while all you can do is stealth torp because if you start shooting.......(and thus spotted)..the RU DD will anihiliate you...?

 

So the merre presence of a RU DD escorting  teammates means, he fires, you torp...(even though you are gunboat).

 

And that's all good in high tiers,........but I was just grinding Farragut, tier 6, 6,4km torp range........I couldn't even stealth torp......

 

Ofc you can say, but US DDs can invis fire. Hence the issue, US DDs ridiculus shell arc and travel time makes long range invis firing.....to laugh about, hence the imbalance in gunning between the 2 gunboats, the gap is huge.

 

edit: Note, I'm no US DD fun. I play all ships (and DDs ofc), all nations. I am all for balance, tis all.

Edited by Stugga

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The problem is, and hence  the imbalance, is that RU DDs (and Bliskawica) have such fast shell travel time and good shell trajectory that they achieve so many hits, even in a close quarters knife fight that favors US DDs that can completely own that engagement as well in many cases, whereas you won't see a US DD being "so lucky" doing so if it meets a RU DD in the open...

 

The balancing factor is that US dds fire 2 volleys for every one volley fired by the RU (approximately across tiers).

RU hitting with x2 the shells pr volley is in that case just a break even (and the HE dmg of RU dds are getting nerfed next patch).

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Is what I (and most others) do, but what happens when they sit at 12+km range happily shooting at your teammates while all you can do is stealth torp because if you start shooting.......(and thus spotted)..the RU DD will anihiliate you...?

 

 

Had a rank 7 game today on ocean. 1 Fubuki, 2 kiev (me) vs 1 mahan, 1 sims and 2 fubuki (BB and CA was pretty even). No dd ever got closer than 9-10 kms to me and neither I nor they hit each other outside 10 km.

 

By then end of the game (we lost, maybe due to losing the other Kiev early), none of the US dds were below 75%.

I managed to take the fubuki with me that kept me spotted and do severe damage to 2 cruisers, but it was a pretty clear loss. Frustrating, hard, but also enjoyable, since all were good DD players. 

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I play both US and RU dd. Up to Farragut: no issues in dealing with same tier RU dd ( and vice versa, they are pretty matched ). Still need to get to Mahan so can't say about Kiev.
However, the main problem from Kiev ( and Tashkent, can 't say higher cause not there ) is the detection range: a skilled IJN dd will keep you spotted the whole game and you won't even get a glimpse of him.

So you're always at risk ( torps or gunfire from anyone who wants to shoot you ). Only a stupid IJN will come and get spotted: they will be eaten alive.

Another danger is multiple dd: you will be spotted first, and will kill you if you're without support.

 

However: if you want a fair 1  vs 1 dd fight: don't fight a RU dd, make sure you have backup.

 

If you want to nerf their hp then II suggest you buff their detection range, cause no matter what: a Kiev that fires is always visible ( so he NEEDS more hp to stay alive ).

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I also play both US and RU lines, currently unlocked both tier 8 ships and use my Kiev for Ranked games. 

 

My experience from normal games is that most US captains have terrible aim (and the howitzers makes it worse).

Whenever I meet at decent US captain, my RU gunboat gets melted before I can launch two salvos. 

 

I play both US and RU dd. Up to Farragut: no issues in dealing with same tier RU dd ( and vice versa, they are pretty matched ). Still need to get to Mahan so can't say about Kiev

 

 

Speaking from Ranked experience, the only DD I fear in my Kiev is another Kiev/Tashkent or a Blyskawica. 

If US dds get close, a 2x5 70 knt torp spread usually nails them

 

What makes Kiev so insanely good are those dual nose-mounted double turrets, meaning it can present a minimal target and still fire 4 guns at the same time. The downside is, it is VERY prone to losing turrets.


However, the main problem from Kiev ( and Tashkent, can 't say higher cause not there ) is the detection range: a skilled IJN dd will keep you spotted the whole game and you won't even get a glimpse of him.

Not really a problem, as RU dds are mostly perma-detected anyway due to working their guns. 


As for IJN dds, RU dds are faster by a few knots and most IJN DDs go looking for flanks. In that case, it becomes a mind-game. Sure, IJN dds can try to run, but if you're in a RU dd and can guess where to, and especially if islands can help you pinpoint his position (due to dropping situatinal awareness), he is eventually dead. Usually when you get close, he will help you know his position by the direction of his torpedo spread:trollface:

 

Final thought: RU dds have turrets made of cheese, so in a knife fight try to diable them.

I really hope WG buffs RU turrets as a compensation for all the nerfs inc. 

Edited by GulvkluderGuld
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First let me agree with you that RU dd stats atm are a bit too good. Whether that is due to the ships being OP or people not knowing how to deal with them is more than i can say.

 

However, US dds are far better knifefighters and far better at capping than RU dds.

You imply RU dds have a choice of terrain. Most fights around capture points i get into take place at such ranges, and there are plenty of islands at those points.

Sometimes the RU dds will have to cap, despite not wanting to get into that kind of terrain. Wait for it and fight it there, instead of in the open.

 

My experience from both sides of the fight under those circumstances says US dds win. Any smart RU captain would turn and run.

The problem most US dds captains have is they choose to give chase, thereby becoming predictable. If they simply shoot and dodge unpredictably, they can easily outtrade the RU dd. 

US dds have better ROF, far better maneuverability and more gun turrets (when RU dds have a turret knockout, they lose 2 guns).

 

FInally, US dds can reach much better concealment values than RU dds can.

Thus they should be already close to or inside the 6 km line before the RU dd can get its guns pointed in the right direction.

 

 

Have to disagree. Currently playing the Kiev, Mahan, Blyska and the Hatsuhara and of the 4 the Kiev is king of knife fighting US will get first shots off but usually miss, by then he's detected and the Russian guns will take him apart with far more accurate fire. May be different in ranked battes or better opponents but 90% of random encounters one vs one I'd take the Kiev over anything else T7 for knife fighting in a cap and the Blyska would be my second choice. The Mahan is a poor third when it comes to DD vs DD battles. Can't comment on Sims never had it.

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Have to disagree. Currently playing the Kiev, Mahan, Blyska and the Hatsuhara and of the 4 the Kiev is king of knife fighting US will get first shots off but usually miss, by then he's detected and the Russian guns will take him apart with far more accurate fire. 

 

The US dd captains usually don't miss their first shots in rank 5+ :)

 

In random battles, I am forced to agree with you, and in those Ranked games on Ocean too.

Provided the US captains dont know how to hit. And remember, there are also bad RU captains.

 

Anywhere with islands that force the Kiev to slow down is another story though.

Same goes for losing the engine (I run AFT, not Last Stand).

I've gotten Rofl-stomped by a Farragut who knew his stuff in my Kiev (came around an island at 4km).

Did 10k dmg to me for barely 3k in return.

 

 

Edited by GulvkluderGuld

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The problem is, and hence  the imbalance, is that RU DDs (and Bliskawica) have such fast shell travel time and good shell trajectory that they achieve so many hits, even in a close quarters knife fight that favors US DDs that can completely own that engagement as well in many cases, whereas you won't see a US DD being "so lucky" doing so if it meets a RU DD in the open...

 

 

IMO the problem is USN DD are only marginally effective against other DD whereas the USSR ones, especially with their 9% fire chance, can seriously hurt CA and even BB from long range.

 

 

A smart IJN captain can use his detection advantage to keep you spotted for his cruisers, the USSR captain can hang back with his cruisers, what can the USN captain do?

 

 

Thanks to the flight time hitting DD at even fairly close range is tough, hitting CA at 10km is almost impossible and getting any closer is suicide.  What's left?  Spamming BB with HE for 100 DMG per hit?  Trying to survive to the end game and preying you stumble across a lonely CV?

 

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