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Master_Hentai

Zao wont be good in the new patch when released

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This is how the statistics will look like after the patch 0.5.2. Stats below are from ingame stats.

 

And damage is Based me Maximum damage.

 

Tier 10 Crusiers ZAO HINDENBURG DES MOINES
       
HP POOL 40800 51900 50600
       
       
FIRE RATE (RPM) 4,4 6 10
MAIN BATTERY RANGE 16230 17830 15830
       
       
AP DAMAGE 5400 5900 5000
DPM PER AP SHELL MAX 23760 35400 50000
PER AP SALVO MAX DMG 285120 424800 450000
       
       
       
HE DAMAGE 3400 2300 2800
DPM PER HE SHELL MAX 14960 13800 28000
PER HE SALVO MAX DMG 179520 165000 252000
FIRE CHANCE 19% 11% 14%
       
       
       
MAXIMUM SPEED 34,5 31,5 33
TURN RADIUS 840 800 770
RUDDER SHIFT TIME 10 15,84 11,22
SURFACE DETECTABILITY 12,6 16,02 13,86

 

 

I feel that Zao is going to be Worse to play in the new patch then it already is because:

 

 

Both Des moines and hindenburg has Decent ruddershift. But that can be fixed with Upgrade.

 

 

i hear many people say that Des moines has bad range and bad accuracy but all that can be Fixed with upgrades.
 
 
Hindenburg has good range and good accuracy, can be upgraded to better on both.
 

 

Both Des moines and hindenburg has really good AA cover "stock without modules or Cpt perks" on the other hand with upgrades... wow!... just wow...

 

 

Des moines and Hindenburg has Better Firepower then Zao Due to their reload speed. 

 

 

Des moines and hindenburg has a high arc, An arc isn't as bad as you think because you can shoot over mountains while Zao can't.

 

 

What Des moines and hindenburg lacks in maneuverability they add up in firepower.

 

 

Zao has good HE shell damage, but even though Hindenburg and Des moines has less HE damage, They can make it up for speed. while zao can't.

 

Zao has good fire, but both hinden and des moines can upgrade their, Not as good but almost. and even then Fire chance is only a possibilityits not a 100% chance. 

 

With Zao you almost HAVE to hit because if you miss.. it can be life or death if you meet Either hindenburg or Des moines While these 2 can miss.

 


Zao can upgrade AA support Or dd Detection, Zao wont get the same aa cover as hinderburg or Des moines, on dd Detection they will have the same. " due to same skills and cpt perks"

 

 

Zao can't upgrade its fire power, only range and Accuracy Same as Des moines and hinderburg, if they do the same they will still be better then zao

 


Zao doesn't need a Nerf it needs a mini buff so it can be Compaired to the other 2 ships losing 4.1k hp is like making it REALLY doomed if it get hits by 4 citidels.

 

Zao is going to be a dead ship if this contiunes...

 

Nothing in these 2 ships is Fair towards Zao. Sure it can be Invisible and backstab enemies, sure it has fast ruddershift. and yeah its faster then the others too, but all thoes problems can be Solved during battle if you face the zao... however if you have Really good firepower.. Really good turn radius. i see no set back in both hindenburg or Des moines after this patch.

 

Zao's maneuverability doesn't really help it towards other ships, only towards DD's but even then hardly anything.

 

you can see the Stats Above on all 3 ships, Can you still SAY that Zao has really good firepower? if you can. Well i have no idea what you have been smoking. Please say no to nerf on Zao let it be heard so that wg wont make it happen! 

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Doesn't the Zao have the best stats out of all the current TX cruisers?

 

Best torps?

Good Dispersion?

Not blow up as soon as anyone looks at it?

 

Stats don't always show what a ship is capable of.

 

PS. Is the Des Moines gun arc + travel time similar to the cleveland? If so then I'll just stop at the Balti or NO cause I can't stand that shell travel time.

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Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
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Remember that these statistics don't allways tell the full story, as there are quite a few hidden stats of ships that are very important.

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Losing 4k hp is not that bad. But I wonder why is this needed. Playing cruisers in high tiers is hard enough as it is.

 

think of it in this way, its hp reflects an teir 7s hp

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Beta Tester
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Isn't the Zao "just" losing 4k HP?

 

Yes the zao is JUST losing 4.1k hp. But with all the other stats it hits it harder... its like Lowering a bb's Firepower Its "just" firepower :) it hits the class / ship harder then you think

 

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Doesn't the Zao have the best stats out of all the current TX cruisers?

 

Best torps?

Good Dispersion?

Not blow up as soon as anyone looks at it?

 

Stats don't always show what a ship is capable of.

 

PS. Is the Des Moines gun arc + travel time similar to the cleveland? If so then I'll just stop at the Balti or NO cause I can't stand that shell travel time.

Best torps?

- no

Good Dispersion?

- not very great

 

Stats don't always show what a ship is capable of.

- its the only measurement that currently is used by WG and will reflect on their actions

I agree that in reality when in battle its never the same as textbook.

 

 

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Yes the zao is JUST losing 4.1k hp. But with all the other stats it hits it harder... its like Lowering a bb's Firepower Its "just" firepower :) it hits the class / ship harder then you think

 

I highly doubt the "firepower" of cruisers is their HP, but ok.

It's gonna heal better now tho, if nothing...

 

Best torps?

- no

Good Dispersion?

- not very great

 

Stats don't always show what a ship is capable of.

- its the only measurement that currently is used by WG and will reflect on their actions

I agree that in reality when in battle its never the same as textbook.

 

 

 

It has one of the best torps/dispertion in game...

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PS. Is the Des Moines gun arc + travel time similar to the cleveland? If so then I'll just stop at the Balti or NO cause I can't stand that shell travel time.

 

Des is a weird one. Travel time is better, but arc is quite big. There's not many Des lovers on that forum and after reading all that I had my daubts during Balti. But after 20+ battles (yes I know its not much) an Des i must say one thing. I love this frakkin ship. She's delivering citadels left and right once You get used to aiming. Everything under 10 km just melts. Oh, and i hated Clev, going through her was abysmal chore. And i loved Pepsi, Yeah, I'm weird.

Just dont try to exchange fire with Zao on 14+km, nope, no. It hurt... 

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Des is a weird one. Travel time is better, but arc is quite big. There's not many Des lovers on that forum and after reading all that I had my daubts during Balti. But after 20+ battles (yes I know its not much) an Des i must say one thing. I love this frakkin ship. She's delivering citadels left and right once You get used to aiming. Everything under 10 km just melts. Oh, and i hated Clev, going through her was abysmal chore. And i loved Pepsi, Yeah, I'm weird.

Just dont try to exchange fire with Zao on 14+km, nope, no. It hurt... 

 

Played Baltimore myself in Cbt.. loved it beyond belief ^^  don't know now tho... :) wanted it..

Tho this has nothing to do with the thread is it? xD

 

Edited by Felrec

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http://warships.today/vehicles/eu

 

Set in tier 10, CA/CL, last week, min battles 100.

 

Look at the stats.

 

Now tell me again Zao's firepower sucks.

 

Your analysis is flawed.

 

 

 

"Both Des moines and hindenburg has Decent ruddershift. But that can be fixed with Upgrade."

So can Zao.

 

 

 

"i hear many people say that Des moines has bad range and bad accuracy but all that can be Fixed with upgrades."

So can Zao.

 

"Hindenburg has good range and good accuracy, can be upgraded to better on both."

So can Zao.

 

 

 

"Both Des moines and hindenburg has really good AA cover "stock without modules or Cpt perks" on the other hand with upgrades... wow!... just wow..."

Des Moines AA sucks unless DF is active. Zao can upgrade AA too.

 

 

 

 

 

"Des moines and Hindenburg has Better Firepower then Zao Due to their reload speed. "

Reload is not all that makes a gun. By stats Zao has more firepower.

 

 

 

 

 

"Des moines and hindenburg has a high arc, An arc isn't as bad as you think because you can shoot over mountains while Zao can't."

Very situational, requires a lot of skill to pull of and enemy can simply sail away, forcing you to leave cover. Zao's flat arc will be better 80% of the time.

 

 

 

 

 

"What Des moines and hindenburg lacks in maneuverability they add up in firepower."

No

 

 

 

 

"Zao has good HE shell damage, but even though Hindenburg and Des moines has less HE damage, They can make it up for speed. while zao can't."

Damage is not all that makes a gun

 

 

"Zao has good fire, but both hinden and des moines can upgrade their, Not as good but almost. and even then Fire chance is only a possibilityits not a 100% chance. "

So can Zao. Am I repeating myself here?

 

 

"With Zao you almost HAVE to hit because if you miss.. it can be life or death if you meet Either hindenburg or Des moines While these 2 can miss."

That is true for every single cruiser in the game, assuming captains are equally skilled.

 

 

 

"Zao can upgrade AA support Or dd Detection, Zao wont get the same aa cover as hinderburg or Des moines, on dd Detection they will have the same. " due to same skills and cpt perks""

Only job cruisers have to do as far as planes go is panicking them. Battleships shoot them down. Zao and Hindenburg do that equally well, and DM is slightly better at it (covers more range).

 

 

 

 

"Zao can't upgrade its fire power, only range and Accuracy Same as Des moines and hinderburg, if they do the same they will still be better then zao"

Every ship can upgrade everything in some way or the other

 

 

 

"Zao doesn't need a Nerf it needs a mini buff so it can be Compaired to the other 2 ships losing 4.1k hp is like making it REALLY doomed if it get hits by 4 citidels."

Can't comment if it needs a nerf, thats for devs to decide. Zao's playstyle is to not get seen/hit and health is 't THAT important.

Every ship is doomed if it gets hit by 4 cits.

 

 

"Zao is going to be a dead ship if this contiunes..."

No

 

 

My work here is done.

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http://warships.today/vehicles/eu

 

Set in tier 10, CA/CL, last week, min battles 100.

 

Look at the stats.

 

Now tell me again Zao's firepower sucks.

 

Your analysis is flawed.

 

 

 

"Both Des moines and hindenburg has Decent ruddershift. But that can be fixed with Upgrade."

So can Zao.

 

 

 

"i hear many people say that Des moines has bad range and bad accuracy but all that can be Fixed with upgrades."

So can Zao.

 

"Hindenburg has good range and good accuracy, can be upgraded to better on both."

So can Zao.

 

 

 

"Both Des moines and hindenburg has really good AA cover "stock without modules or Cpt perks" on the other hand with upgrades... wow!... just wow..."

Des Moines AA sucks unless DF is active. Zao can upgrade AA too.

 

 

 

 

 

"Des moines and Hindenburg has Better Firepower then Zao Due to their reload speed. "

Reload is not all that makes a gun. By stats Zao has more firepower.

 

 

 

 

 

"Des moines and hindenburg has a high arc, An arc isn't as bad as you think because you can shoot over mountains while Zao can't."

Very situational, requires a lot of skill to pull of and enemy can simply sail away, forcing you to leave cover. Zao's flat arc will be better 80% of the time.

 

 

 

 

 

"What Des moines and hindenburg lacks in maneuverability they add up in firepower."

No

 

 

 

 

"Zao has good HE shell damage, but even though Hindenburg and Des moines has less HE damage, They can make it up for speed. while zao can't."

Damage is not all that makes a gun

 

 

"Zao has good fire, but both hinden and des moines can upgrade their, Not as good but almost. and even then Fire chance is only a possibilityits not a 100% chance. "

So can Zao. Am I repeating myself here?

 

 

"With Zao you almost HAVE to hit because if you miss.. it can be life or death if you meet Either hindenburg or Des moines While these 2 can miss."

That is true for every single cruiser in the game, assuming captains are equally skilled.

 

 

 

"Zao can upgrade AA support Or dd Detection, Zao wont get the same aa cover as hinderburg or Des moines, on dd Detection they will have the same. " due to same skills and cpt perks""

Only job cruisers have to do as far as planes go is panicking them. Battleships shoot them down. Zao and Hindenburg do that equally well, and DM is slightly better at it (covers more range).

 

 

 

 

"Zao can't upgrade its fire power, only range and Accuracy Same as Des moines and hinderburg, if they do the same they will still be better then zao"

Every ship can upgrade everything in some way or the other

 

 

 

"Zao doesn't need a Nerf it needs a mini buff so it can be Compaired to the other 2 ships losing 4.1k hp is like making it REALLY doomed if it get hits by 4 citidels."

Can't comment if it needs a nerf, thats for devs to decide. Zao's playstyle is to not get seen/hit and health is 't THAT important.

Every ship is doomed if it gets hit by 4 cits.

 

 

"Zao is going to be a dead ship if this contiunes..."

No

 

 

My work here is done.

 

giphy.gif
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Even without the 4k hp nerf.. the stats you just posted are the same. The survivability of the ship should stay the same with the new hp regen ability. 

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tier 10 cruiser with 40k hp

164880 less maximum damage compared to the "worst tier 10 cruiser" (Des Moines) when it comes to AP per salvo?

Wargaming trying to kill their small userbase?

 

Edited by Wavecave
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Doesn't the Zao have the best stats out of all the current TX cruisers?

 

Best torps?

Good Dispersion?

Not blow up as soon as anyone looks at it?

 

Stats don't always show what a ship is capable of.

 

PS. Is the Des Moines gun arc + travel time similar to the cleveland? If so then I'll just stop at the Balti or NO cause I can't stand that shell travel time.

 

Yeah man the whole point of playing IJN cruisers, especially with Zao, is to torp the enemy or get close to them which breaks your detectability.

don't forget that Zao is a tier 10 cruiser so you'll be playing against the most preferred tier 10 ship which is the Yamato and one salvo from her will break your ship in either one or two salvos.

 

it's quite sad how people take statistics literally smh

Edited by Wavecave

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Des is a weird one. Travel time is better, but arc is quite big. There's not many Des lovers on that forum and after reading all that I had my daubts during Balti. But after 20+ battles (yes I know its not much) an Des i must say one thing. I love this frakkin ship. She's delivering citadels left and right once You get used to aiming. Everything under 10 km just melts. Oh, and i hated Clev, going through her was abysmal chore. And i loved Pepsi, Yeah, I'm weird.

Just dont try to exchange fire with Zao on 14+km, nope, no. It hurt... 

 

Yeah, a friend of mine recently got the Des Moines and he absolutely loves it. Getting a ton of citadel hits and he doesn't have any problems with the arc either. Doesn't seem nearly as bad as people are suggesting on the forum from what I have seen in the replays.

He got 78,7K average damage with it.

Has the Des Moines been buffed in recent times or do people on the forum just not know how to play that thing?

 

About the Zao nerf: Considering the Zao is performing notably better than the Des Moines and Hindenburg according to server statistics, I would say the nerf seems reasonable.

I don't have one myself, though.

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At one point DM had a horrible shell travel time similar or even worse than that of BBs shooting at maximum range.

I have no idea how she is playing now but when I played her in the past I never really was able to like her. Even in her "glorious time" she was nothing compared to the Senjo for me.

Now Senjo recieved many nerfs in the past. 20km torps became low-range torps and 10rpm became 4.6, then 4.9 and after that 4.4. But what she never lost was her stealth shooting and first strike ability comparable only to RU and US DDs.

The low shell arc is a big advantage against Cruisers as it is easier to get citadel hits at medium to long range while the high chance of fire and HE damage for each shell helps against BBs even with the low rof.

 

Senjo might not be what she was in the past but she is still a really good Cruiser. The nerf to HP should bring the other 2 t10 Cruiser closer too her level while for her it is ballanced out with the buff to the repair skill. Don't forget hier, that not only BBs can citadel her but also CAs. If the devs don't like the changes they will revert them again but before that they need to gather data on how they affect gameplay.

 

@TO: Those dpm per salvo/shell sound nice and all but in ingame reality are pretty useless against the Senjo.

Senjo lives with her invisibility. If you know how to make best use of it the dpm of other ships doesn't matter because you can't damage what you can't see.

Damage is only important when she get's spotted and then it's not a matter of dpm either but of damage of the one/two salvo(s) the enemy can shoot at you until you disappear again.

 

Of course you can play her different and there are people out there who can bring her torpedoes to good use or excell at mid range fights but in the past the "stay hidden and burn down the enemy" style of her proved to be really effective in the early and mid-game, making her save her limited HP for the end-game.

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And once again, for what? Not even the baBBies that kept complaining about having a cruiser that could outplay then without having to suicide ever mentioned Zao's HP as their problem. The whole buff to HP regen is nice but pointless in Zao: The ship rarely gets citadeled if you keep your wits up, I just smell on this a change to please tomatoes while players that know their ship get penalized with an uncalled nerf. Zao isn't inmune toHE too, under heavy HE presure and with no way of getting unspotted this nerf also means one less HE salvo you can take, which can be vital

 

The [edited]ship is not OP, it doesn't melt BBs without breaking a sweat, it's torps are even more situational than lower tiers CAs thanks to the short range and high speed and not al HE salvos are devastating 10k hits. The ship citadel capabilities also got hit hard with the citadel roof fix.

 

Zao will still be a great ship and the best tier X cruiser but the solution for cruiser balance in higher tiers is not nerfing the Zao but buffing the other cruisers so they can match the Zao while making then a force to be reckoned with in the battlefield. Specially Hindenburg, haven't seen a ship that can be outmatched so much by its tier pairs and this is unexcusable on tier X where every 1k health you lose means thousand of credits in your bill.

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Threads like this are based on DM info that is subject to change. 0.5.2 was not been finalised yet and will be subject to a public test prior to release. You really should wait for the final patch notes after the PT before commenting on changes. This is exactly why this info  is not released by WG, because it is a work in progress and some changes may not make it through to the final version. 

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[GRKEN]
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At one point DM had a horrible shell travel time similar or even worse than that of BBs shooting at maximum range.

I have no idea how she is playing now but when I played her in the past I never really was able to like her. Even in her "glorious time" she was nothing compared to the Senjo for me.

Interesting statistics in here...

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20151205/eu_week/average_ship.html

Just compare Zao's damage to Montana.

 

Who ever can hit the other from farther distance has the advantage.

 

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Even without the 4k hp nerf.. the stats you just posted are the same. The survivability of the ship should stay the same with the new hp regen ability. 

Yes the stats will be the same, But due to the nerf with the hp. its another negetive aspect, Sure the Zao atm can stand its ground to a degree. but if it loses hp well it will become a oneshot kill... and it doesn't help that it almost has the same hp as the tier 7.

aside from that. Hp reg. So? all 3 gets it not just zao so its not a difference for zao. compaire to the other 2

Edited by Felrec

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Interesting statistics in here...

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20151205/eu_week/average_ship.html

Just compare Zao's damage to Montana.

 

Who ever can hit the other from farther distance has the advantage.

 

 

Shhhhhh. Montana doesn't need a buff according to all the BB haters and people who haven't even come close to that ship...

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I highly doubt the "firepower" of cruisers is their HP, but ok.

It's gonna heal better now tho, if nothing...

 

 

It has one of the best torps/dispertion in game...

Firepower ain't the hp on the crusiers. but it does the same as lowering the dpm for a bb... you simply die faster and yeah its going to heal better... HAHAha but so are the other 2... thats the whole point All 3 gets the same buff while Zao gets a nerf on the sideline...

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