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Stugga

HE dmg is a joke now

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Carriers nerfed, HE dmg nerfed, no wonder it's all about BBs and DDs now.

 

I just had a game, split map, I ended up having to deal with a New Mexico with my Omaha from my side. 132 hits, 24k dmg from HE and 35k dmg from fires. 132 hits for 24k dmg that's about an average of 180 dmg per hit. That's right. I read the stats of Omaha 1800 max. HE dmg. I wonder what's the minimum in order to get an average of 180? Is it -1600? Cuz only with such a minus min dmg you get an average of 180 dmg per hit. (or anyway, what's the armor bonus and how much HE dmg has been nerfed?)

 

Needless to say, he just healed up the fire and proceeded to kill me, once he was done with some other ships he was dealing with. (Mind you I was fully angled (vertically) and he was doing almost citadel dmg with his salvos, very strange).

 

It's a sure fact that cruisers are absolutely no match for the BBs. HE dmg so nerfed that there's no way you put a dent on them. You are just food, XP and credits. No wonder it's all about BBs and DDs now.

 

Balance is completely broken.

Edited by Stugga

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Beta Tester
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Next patch BB rudder shift time will be nerfed, and the Target Acquisition module will increase the spotting distance (basicly it is against torpedos and destroyers).

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Beta Tester
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Next patch BB rudder shift time will be nerfed, and the Target Acquisition module will increase the spotting distance (basicly it is against torpedos and destroyers).

 

I have read that. I fail to see how this will help cruisers though (except those having torps) and esp. how this has to do with the nerfed HE dmg.
Edited by Stugga

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Beta Tester
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I have read that. I fail to see how this will help cruisers though (except those having torps) and esp. how this has to do with the nerfed HE dmg.

 

Can you explain how and when did it get nerfed? If I remember correctly people started saying they got less HE damage after 5.1?

I was having battles of my life with Mogami after it and haven't noticed any difference on Murmansk, Gremy or Kiev either...

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Beta Tester
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Can you explain how and when did it get nerfed? If I remember correctly people started saying they got less HE damage after 5.1?

I was having battles of my life with Mogami after it and haven't noticed any difference on Murmansk, Gremy or Kiev either...

 

HE wasn't nerfed. IF ANYTHING was changed at all I suspect it would be that BB armor was fixed so now you can't just fire a 203 HE shell into the belt armor of a BB and do 1k damage regardless, you have to actually land your shots somewhat effectively, and since A LOT OF PEOPLE CANNOT DO THAT *cough cough* they whine instead. I still get plenty of 6k+ damage HE volleys when playing Ibuki when I land a good volley, just like I did in the past with Myokos on things like Colorados and Clevelands the Ibuki does on Iowas, Mogamis and Baltimores.
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Beta Tester
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HE wasn't nerfed. IF ANYTHING was changed at all I suspect it would be that BB armor was fixed so now you can't just fire a 203 HE shell into the belt armor of a BB and do 1k damage regardless, you have to actually land your shots somewhat effectively, and since A LOT OF PEOPLE CANNOT DO THAT *cough cough* they whine instead. I still get plenty of 6k+ damage HE volleys when playing Ibuki when I land a good volley, just like I did in the past with Myokos on things like Colorados and Clevelands the Ibuki does on Iowas, Mogamis and Baltimores.

 

I have myoko, I see that I do decent dmg with it with my HE most of the times. My opinion is that there's a critical point that from that point and downwards HE dmg gets almost completelly nullified by armor. So my tier V Omaha, meeting tier VI New Mexico (which is notorious for its armor) had those results. Hence I posted it, to point out there are still gaps in HE dmg balance and at medium tiers nerf is there.

 

Saying "I don't know where to aim"... Well, I got 55% win rate, even though I play all ships and I've been playing mostly stock ships so far (I ain't seal clubbing), I was beta tester, surely, I know where to aim by now mate.

 

edit: I wouldn't be surprised if there is a hidden modifier of tier difference before applying dmg and that if you are lower tier shooting at a higher tier you get less dmg than you should, rather than this be completely dependant on the caliber of your gun.  (something similar to the fire chance between different tiers).

 

I've noticed that in my tier 6 farragut took me about twice the shots to kill a fubuki I was 1v1 than it took me with a Sims, tier 7. Same guns, only difference is the tier.

 

Maybe I'm seeing ghosts, maybe there's something there, I dunno, but something feels wrong.

Edited by Stugga

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Carriers nerfed, HE dmg nerfed, no wonder it's all about BBs and DDs now.

 

I just had a game, split map, I ended up having to deal with a New Mexico with my Omaha from my side. 132 hits, 24k dmg from HE and 35k dmg from fires. 132 hits for 24k dmg that's about an average of 180 dmg per hit. That's right. I read the stats of Omaha 1800 max. HE dmg. I wonder what's the minimum in order to get an average of 180? Is it -1600? Cuz only with such a minus min dmg you get an average of 180 dmg per hit. (or anyway, what's the armor bonus and how much HE dmg has been nerfed?)

 

Needless to say, he just healed up the fire and proceeded to kill me, once he was done with some other ships he was dealing with. (Mind you I was fully angled (vertically) and he was doing almost citadel dmg with his salvos, very strange).

 

It's a sure fact that cruisers are absolutely no match for the BBs. HE dmg so nerfed that there's no way you put a dent on them. You are just food, XP and credits. No wonder it's all about BBs and DDs now.

 

Balance is completely broken.

 

It is not nerfed. you have to hit the right spot, which is the superstructure to do max HE damage. 
Edited by ghostbuster_

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Beta Tester
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It is not nerfed. you have to hit the right spot, which is the superstructure to do max HE damage. 

 

We've said that already....

 

I was (at least) aiming the vulnerable spots. At 10-12km you don't expect to always hit where you aim, esp if they wiggle a little, which comes to issue nr 2. If hitting the vulnerable parts (superstructure etc) is so "iffy", then 1) shouldn't they up the min dmg for when it hits to compensate for all the "vulnerable parts misses (but still hits with min dmg)) or 2) shouldn't they up the min. dmg to the non-vulnerable parts?

 

Anyway, I think there's no more point of continueing this thread. WG already said in other recent threads HE dmg atm works as intended (that only does decent dmg at the vulnerable parts). So if they are happy with it.... what's to say...

 

Off to play my BBs..

 

Edited by Stugga

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We've said that already....

 

I was (at least) aiming the vulnerable spots. At 10-12km you don't expect to always hit where you aim, esp if they wiggle a little, which comes to issue nr 2. If hitting the vulnerable parts (superstructure etc) is so "iffy", then 1) shouldn't they up the min dmg for when it hits to compensate for all the "vulnerable parts misses (but still hits with min dmg)) or 2) shouldn't they up the min. dmg to the non-vulnerable parts?

 

of course not. If you hit wrong parts you do low damage its that simple. If you come with such a suggestion i would say lets make the overpen damage up too. Because people cant always hit the citadel. 

Just try to aim better and i would suggest you not to shoot he all the time because you are a cruiser. If the bb shows broadside to you, just set him on fire and start to shoot ap.

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i would suggest you not to shoot he all the time because you are a cruiser. If the bb shows broadside to you, just set him on fire and start to shoot ap.

 

I was at kitting range (10-12km). That means and considering omaha's shells' arc, using AP was out of the question.

 

Anyway...all I'm saying, if hitting the vulnerable parts from 10-12km (the min, range a cruiser plays against a BB without risking cidatel'd to death) is quite iffy, then there's a problem with cruisers' effectiveness Vs BBs.

 

 

edit: Anyway, as I said, no problem, I have New Mexico too, as well as Kongo, I will just join the bandwagon

Edited by Stugga

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I was at kitting range (10-12km). That means and considering omaha's shells' arc, using AP was out of the question.

 

Anyway...all I'm saying, if hitting the vulnerable parts from 10-12km (the min, range a cruiser plays against a BB without risking cidatel'd to death) is quite iffy, then there's a problem with cruisers' effectiveness Vs BBs.

 

 

edit: Anyway, as I said, no problem, I have New Mexico too, as well as Kongo, I will just join the bandwagon

 

CAs can deal with bbs very well. A zao can kill a yamato alone or a des moin can easly make them suffer.  And im also playing some cas and i didnt have any problems too. 

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Oh please. I'm getting a bit irritated by those messages! It's quite simple: every shipline has their strenghts and weaknesses. The whole bottom line is this: give up your small ego sense of getting the most "red icons" of ships you sink and start thinking as a team. And more: it's a game for crying out loud! If it would be a true simulation everybody would have quit! Look at the historical navy battles: sinking a ship hasen't happened THAT much! In game there's no issue of rocking of waves, wind and limited ammo issues. If so, all battles would end up in a draw! We want action so we get it. Yeah, a 1 on 1 encounter with a BB and a cruiser will end up bad for the cruiser: the BB's are meant to take hits. Today however I was in my Warspite. THE BB known to take a hell of a punishment and still keep floating. I was surrounded by 3 cruisers. Those captains played excellent: shelling me with HE's over and over. Even seen a floating BBQ? Here it was. OK, they didn't get it for free: I shot back like hell but I was wrecked anyway. My point is; yeah, I'm a BB fan, yeah I can heal damage. But I can only take 2 shots every minute!! And I miss more than I hit. and most of the BB's do: I've seen it.

My whole point is: if you do not enjoy this, in my eyes wonderful game, then by all means: go back to your Mario Bro's and start harvesting your bunnies, hearts and applepies or start with the other WOW (warcraft) and never lose and be bored to death! I see the wonder in this game and the sense of humor: "jeez, how could I have been so stupid? next time I won't make the same mistake again!"

 

So please: stop complaining and be a negative pain in the a**. Get the hell off: there are lots of girl games in which you never lose and collect endless amounts of flowers and sweeties or take your loss like a man (M/F)  and start giving critisism which actually contribute to something! Or put it otherwise: I may be a noob in your eyes. But better being a noob who learns from his mistakes than being the whining b*ch that you are!

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Beta Tester
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CAs can deal with bbs very well. A zao can kill a yamato alone or a des moin can easly make them suffer.  And im also playing some cas and i didnt have any problems too. 

 

We've said above already that higher tier CAs dmg is ok. We did give example with myoko etc, so I guess you mentioning zao and DM is mute point. The problem (if at all) was mainly for lower caliber HE dmg. Anyway, it was already said that WG is ok with it so nothing more to add...

 

Oh please. I'm getting a bit irritated by those messages! It's quite simple: every shipline has their strenghts and weaknesses. The whole bottom line is this: give up your small ego sense of getting the most "red icons" of ships you sink and start thinking as a team. And more: it's a game for crying out loud! If it would be a true simulation everybody would have quit! Look at the historical navy battles: sinking a ship hasen't happened THAT much! In game there's no issue of rocking of waves, wind and limited ammo issues. If so, all battles would end up in a draw! We want action so we get it. Yeah, a 1 on 1 encounter with a BB and a cruiser will end up bad for the cruiser: the BB's are meant to take hits. Today however I was in my Warspite. THE BB known to take a hell of a punishment and still keep floating. I was surrounded by 3 cruisers. Those captains played excellent: shelling me with HE's over and over. Even seen a floating BBQ? Here it was. OK, they didn't get it for free: I shot back like hell but I was wrecked anyway. My point is; yeah, I'm a BB fan, yeah I can heal damage. But I can only take 2 shots every minute!! And I miss more than I hit. and most of the BB's do: I've seen it.

My whole point is: if you do not enjoy this, in my eyes wonderful game, then by all means: go back to your Mario Bro's and start harvesting your bunnies, hearts and applepies or start with the other WOW (warcraft) and never lose and be bored to death! I see the wonder in this game and the sense of humor: "jeez, how could I have been so stupid? next time I won't make the same mistake again!"

 

So please: stop complaining and be a negative pain in the a**. Get the hell off: there are lots of girl games in which you never lose and collect endless amounts of flowers and sweeties or take your loss like a man (M/F)  and start giving critisism which actually contribute to something! Or put it otherwise: I may be a noob in your eyes. But better being a noob who learns from his mistakes than being the whining b*ch that you are!

 

What part of "I play all ships, all nations", (unlike you who is BB fun) did you not understand?

 

Above all, the point is balanced gameplay. You want to see less CA/CLs being played in medium tiers? - You mentioned Warspite. The only reason you went down in fires is that there were 3 cruisers so they could add up those fires, had it been one...

 

And ofc, I don't expect as you said a cruiser to prevail over a BB in 1 v 1, but to be totally nullified by 180 average dmg... is another issue.

 

Anyway, as I said, I'm not crying or whining, I got BBs too, nps. Who cares about balance anyway?

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Alpha Tester
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i love very very low HE damage :) maybe the cruisers soon stop HE spam fest and the game will be fine, if fix the economy.

me to play cruisers and me just AP use if DD close me then switch HE but rest of only AP and the 203mm guns make normal damage and i think 40-50k damage is nice to a cruiser

second if you shoot HE againts bigger ship then DD you only just want to troll that player

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I've been firing a good mix of HE and AP from my 203mm guns on my Myoko and generally my HE does a lot more damage per hit over the length of the game, AP is just too random at the moment, so many shells just doing the 10% damage against other cruisers and citadel hits seem to be determined by how many goats you sacrificed that morning :sceptic: I think there would be a lot less HE spam from cruisers if they made AP more reliable, hell I've even noticed a hell of a lot of Battleship captains seem to be firing mostly HE these days!

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i love very very low HE damage :) maybe the cruisers soon stop HE spam fest and the game will be fine, if fix the economy.

me to play cruisers and me just AP use if DD close me then switch HE but rest of only AP and the 203mm guns make normal damage and i think 40-50k damage is nice to a cruiser

second if you shoot HE againts bigger ship then DD you only just want to troll that player

 

No offence but due to the low calibre guns of CA's you need to use HE for both BB's and DD's. Only reserve AP when you have a CA's broadside staring at you.

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We've said above already that higher tier CAs dmg is ok. We did give example with myoko etc, so I guess you mentioning zao and DM is mute point. The problem (if at all) was mainly for lower caliber HE dmg. Anyway, it was already said that WG is ok with it so nothing more to add...

 

yeah i got it you were playing your omaha and i also play my murmansk. They have the same guns and I have never had any problems with HE. 

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yeah i got it you were playing your omaha and i also play my murmansk. They have the same guns and I have never had any problems with HE. 

 

Maybe you haven't noticed it. If you happen to have a game where you were almost mostly firing at BBs, check the nr of your hits and check your total HE dmg, do the math and get the average, see if you are satisfied.

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I've been firing a good mix of HE and AP from my 203mm guns on my Myoko and generally my HE does a lot more damage per hit over the length of the game

 

Yes, as we said, higher caliber HE dmg (203mm guns) is ok.

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Hi all,

 

There is serious problem with HE on lower caliber guns... it is well documented...

 

Please check this:

 

"Regarding the AP shell issue with BB's and HE shell issue with certain guns"

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/36548-regarding-the-ap-shell-issue-with-bbs-and-he-shell-issue-with-certain-guns/

 

"Serious problem with HE from smaller caliber guns (extremely low damage caused)..."

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/36954-serious-problem-with-he-from-smaller-caliber-guns-extremely-low-damage-caused/

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

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The thing is if you fire HE at BBs you're not going to get the same consistent damage you get when firing them at CA/CLs and DDs. This is working as intended.

Focus on other ships first and only engage BBs when no other targets are available. You can still set them on fire well enough and you can easily whittle them down if you have help.

 

As previously said, BBs will get mobility nerfs in the next patch to keep them in line as a whole. While this doesn't do much for your specific situation, it makes sure that BBs don't become too powerful in general.

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The thing is if you fire HE at BBs you're not going to get the same consistent damage you get when firing them at CA/CLs and DDs. This is working as intended.

Focus on other ships first and only engage BBs when no other targets are available. You can still set them on fire well enough and you can easily whittle them down if you have help.

 

As previously said, BBs will get mobility nerfs in the next patch to keep them in line as a whole. While this doesn't do much for your specific situation, it makes sure that BBs don't become too powerful in general.

 

To nerf BBs, DDs and CAs is not necessary (also no buff needed.). They should buff the CVs  to have back the CVs in battles and fix that [edited] MM.  
Edited by RogDodgeUK
This post has been edited by a member of the Moderation Team, due to inappropriate content. RogDodgeUK

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Hi all,

 

I have combined all screenshots and all YouTube videos of HE extremely low effectiveness after v0.5.1 into this one single post...

 

 

EdiJo Cleveland:

 

BcA2M4o.png

 

 

Zuxx Nurnberg:

 

shot_15_11_15_01_08_35_0585.jpg

 

 

Aerroon's Mogami video regarding ineffectiveness of HE shells:
 

 

Aerroon.jpg

 

 

Flamu's Gearing video regarding ineffectiveness of HE shells:

 

 

Wo_Ws.png

 

 

"Flamu" posted another Gearing video:

 

 

7Sgea32.png

 

 

So... do you guys see a clean pattern now?

 

 

The HE damage averages very close to 10% of maximum possible HE damage!

 

 

I think that it is very likely that the WG accidentally introduced the overpenetration for HE when they fixed the AP in the v0.5.1 (and there should never be overpenetration for HE)!!!

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

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[S03G]
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Trying to hold the left flank versus NC, Fuso and Colorado, in my Nürnberg, with two supporting BBs.

 

Got the torps in and ran dodging, to max range with <1/3 of my hps left, obviously my gunfire from then on did little to help the team, at least I was very lucky to get the fires right after he repaired.....

 

Given that German ships have poor HE, when you try AP and it does little to pursuing BBs, you try HE and pray for luck.

 

Without those fires.. well...

2edbbs3.jpg

 

 

Edited by Sintares

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Hi all,

 

I have combined all screenshots and all YouTube videos of HE extremely low effectiveness after v0.5.1 into this one single post...

 

EdiJo Cleveland:

 

Zuxx Nurnberg:

 

Aerroon's Mogami video regarding ineffectiveness of HE shells:
 

 

Flamu's Gearing video regarding ineffectiveness of HE shells:

 

 

"Flamu" posted another Gearing video:

 

 

So... do you guys see a clean pattern now?

 

The HE damage averages very close to 10% of maximum possible HE damage!

 

I think that it is very likely that the WG accidentally introduced the overpenetration for HE when they fixed the AP in the v0.5.1 (and there should never be overpenetration for HE)!!!

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

When cherry picking results you should be very careful about throwing around statistics related words like "average".

 

More likely is that most of these hits are doing 0 damage because someone is hosing down armored ships with 127 mm HE rounds.

Edited by Nechrom

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