Jump to content
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
Ivan_Smukov

Tier 8 and above - repair costs driving players away

42 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Players
3 posts
708 battles

I like WoWs. Mechanics are awesome, it's fairly realistic, pretty and addictive. Great work on the developer's side. 

 

I find it hard to make myself play anymore, tho. Same as many other people I speak with. 

 

Ever since I reached Amagi, in 49 games (71% won) I averaged ~1400XP, ~80000dmg per game, which I believe are decent stats and by definition should progress me in the game. 

 

What reality brings is repair+restocking costs of about 100k per game which is a little more than you get if you output 80000dmg.(I know other variables are involved, too)

So the game's economy is expecting me to have a brilliant game (little damage recieved, > 120k dmg dealt), to make measly 50k profit. 

 

The result is as soon as people reach Tier VIII, they have to sell all of their fleet to buy the ridiculously overprices upgrades

 and whenever they play, they stay cautiously in the back and team work takes the backseat to self preservation.

 

You know those awesome games where there are 2 ships left on the other team and they run and hide in the corner of the map, waiting for the time to pass, cuz they know they'll lose anyway?

Whoever was put in charge of the game economy needs to take a class or two on customer retention and long term strategy. 

 

Greed is mostly bad, nowadays. People wont pay you 20EUR for a coin pack so they can play with the ship they grinded to for months. There are always other games :)

 

Hope WG gets smart and tweaks it right. Shame to see such a beauty be another one of the greedy failures

 

Cheers

 

  • Cool 16

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
658 posts

dont really care this the WG ,WG is company and all company goal the bigger profit.

so if make lower the t8-10 costs the players dont buy too much prem or prem ship and this is money lose the company.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[JUNK]
Players
849 posts
9,658 battles

dont really care this the WG ,WG is company and all company goal the bigger profit.

so if make lower the t8-10 costs the players dont buy too much prem or prem ship and this is money lose the company.

 

Except for the fact that most people prefer to not go to high tiers, or to stop playing altogether, instead of paying for premium. I know a friend who has bought a few premium ships, must have put 50 euros into the game, but refuses to play anything higher than tier 8, because he finds premium account useless. WG needs profit, sure, but what profit will it be making when there are 5000 players online at peak times?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
658 posts

Except for the fact that most people prefer to not go to high tiers, or to stop playing altogether, instead of paying for premium. I know a friend who has bought a few premium ships, must have put 50 euros into the game, but refuses to play anything higher than tier 8, because he finds premium account useless. WG needs profit, sure, but what profit will it be making when there are 5000 players online at peak times?

 

yes your rigth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
2,286 posts
9,870 battles

dont really care this the WG ,WG is company and all company goal the bigger profit.

so if make lower the t8-10 costs the players dont buy too much prem or prem ship and this is money lose the company.

 

 

the goal isnt/shouldn't be pure profit but the balance between bigger profit/happy community. One of the first things my marketing professor told me is that "a happy customer will pay more" and therefor a happy player will bring more profit to WG.
  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
812 posts
3,454 battles

I'm already feeling the bad credit-reward at T7 with my nagato. I need at least 30k dmg dealt to be positive (and there are still battles in the squishy stock-hull, where some lucky shots can take you out...but it's rare).

In one of the better rounds i did 140k dmg, survived and didn't even made 200k credits. i play without premium, btw.

It is really stupid if you have all the xp to unlock all modules, but can't even afford the B-hull :angry:

(but please don't try to smaller the xp-gain to make it "even", WG..this is the wrong approach)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BRVHT]
Players
251 posts

dont really care this the WG ,WG is company and all company goal the bigger profit.

so if make lower the t8-10 costs the players dont buy too much prem or prem ship and this is money lose the company.

 

 

Except that at high tiers even with premium its not worth playing so I don't bother with premium or care about advancing anymore and play mostly with my tier 4 - 6 ships with the occasional outing in N Carolina, Tirpitz or Atago. If the High tiers had better Economy I might find it worthwhile buying premium but at the moment No, im not buying premium and not playing much at all compared to how much I played up till getting the T8 N,Carolina  and realised I wouldn't be going any further without buying my way up with doubloon exchange. so no more money from me
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
130 posts
4,460 battles

You mean tier 8+ repair costs are driving bad players back to low tiers where they belong, until they have learned how to play the game. What's wrong with that? I'm doing fine economically at tier 8+, thank you very much. I estimate that I make 100-200k credits per game in regular tier 8s and 250-500k per game in premiums (Tirpitz). I'm better than average but not a pro. You could do way worse and still make credits.

 

I can't believe people are complaining about having to do 30k damage at tier 7-8 to earn money. 30k is ok, not good, just barely ok at tier 5. If you can't even do your own HP worth of damage per game, you are letting other people do your job for you. Unless you have an unusually high amount of cap points. Why should you earn credits when you're not even pulling your own weight, let alone helping your team win? It just doesn't make sense.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,015 posts
4,182 battles

You mean tier 8+ repair costs are driving bad players back to low tiers where they belong, until they have learned how to play the game. What's wrong with that? I'm doing fine economically at tier 8+, thank you very much. I estimate that I make 100-200k credits per game in regular tier 8s and 250-500k per game in premiums (Tirpitz). I'm better than average but not a pro. You could do way worse and still make credits.

 

I can't believe people are complaining about having to do 30k damage at tier 7-8 to earn money. 30k is ok, not good, just barely ok at tier 5. If you can't even do your own HP worth of damage per game, you are letting other people do your job for you. Unless you have an unusually high amount of cap points. Why should you earn credits when you're not even pulling your own weight, let alone helping your team win? It just doesn't make sense.

 

T8+ repair costs have to go IMHO. Just came back from two missions we lost because our DDs did not want to cap. First one was over in less than 10 minutes with only 3-4 ships sunk on both sides total since everyone hung around our Yamato. On the start of the second battle I told nearest Fubuki to cap C and I will follow and cover him (fully upgraded and unlocked New Orleans). To which he replied that he "doesn't cap". It took enemy team less than 5 minutes to win all caps. After that our Amagi had to enter one only to be slaughtered soon after. Even though we eventually won 2 caps towards the end of the match, it was too late since enemy team accumulated too many points. Its not just these two examples I had today, everyone just hangs in the back and snipes. At least I managed to kill an enemy Hatsuharu and citadel a Mogami in the second match to cover my repair costs...

 

Only when I reached T8 (MM with T10 guys) games I started losing interest in the game. It it much more fun on medium tiers, from 6-7. That is the sweet spot. Because of this, I do not intend to grind higher than T8. With USN CA line at least. The fact is, gameplay starts deteriorating after reaching T8. And I am not the only one saying this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
164 posts
2,835 battles

i have already said this, like, twice, i am not the best player around, but i can manage pretty well in my Tier 8 ships (Mogami, and from North Carolina - Michael Jordan!!!). if i don't play like a total amateur i earn credits playing T8 ships (not the premium ones). not much, but certainly enough. don't know about T9-10, still getting there, but T8 is OK, credit-wise..

 

one thing we must keep in mind - if T8+ were profitable nobody would play lower Tiers, and new players (and those, who just started to research new tech-trees) would be pretty lonely out there. it's a balance thing, and although i may not like it i understand why they did it..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[RN]
Alpha Tester
920 posts

yes CVS and BBS have huge repair/restock and i think its ok because DDs and CL/CAs have low rep/resup costs. so you need to play different typs of ships and not just big badaboom stuff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
130 posts
4,460 battles

 

T8+ repair costs have to go IMHO. Just came back from two missions we lost because our DDs did not want to cap. First one was over in less than 10 minutes with only 3-4 ships sunk on both sides total since everyone hung around our Yamato. On the start of the second battle I told nearest Fubuki to cap C and I will follow and cover him (fully upgraded and unlocked New Orleans). To which he replied that he "doesn't cap". It took enemy team less than 5 minutes to win all caps. After that our Amagi had to enter one only to be slaughtered soon after. Even though we eventually won 2 caps towards the end of the match, it was too late since enemy team accumulated too many points. Its not just these two examples I had today, everyone just hangs in the back and snipes. At least I managed to kill an enemy Hatsuharu and citadel a Mogami in the second match to cover my repair costs...

 

Only when I reached T8 (MM with T10 guys) games I started losing interest in the game. It it much more fun on medium tiers, from 6-7. That is the sweet spot. Because of this, I do not intend to grind higher than T8. With USN CA line at least. The fact is, gameplay starts deteriorating after reaching T8. And I am not the only one saying this.

 

So you want to change the economy of the game because you have some bad games?

 

I can honestly tell you that I can only remember ONE game in all my WoWs career where my income was negative. I mean it. You have to earn your credits, not just hope that your team is going to be good. Get stuck in an do damage and the income will be there. You won't win all games but if you at least make the enemy pay for their win, you will have an income.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,015 posts
4,182 battles

 

So you want to change the economy of the game because you have some bad games?

 

I can honestly tell you that I can only remember ONE game in all my WoWs career where my income was negative. I mean it. You have to earn your credits, not just hope that your team is going to be good. Get stuck in an do damage and the income will be there. You won't win all games but if you at least make the enemy pay for their win, you will have an income.

 

I have no problem with making money in WOWS. Never had. I didn't sell my Pepsi to buy NOI still have her fully unlocked and upgraded. Intend to go back to her after I unlock Baltimore which I do not intend to buy. It took 20 mil to suite up NO.

 

The whole gameplay became boring at T8+ for me. At least, from CA perspective since I can't do much there. No CVs around lately to cover my BBs anyway. DDs won't cap, and everyone snipes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
370 posts
839 battles

We can complain on the forums as much as we want, but as long as people keep buying the much hated bundles and premium account this dev team reaches its set target every month and nothing shall change.

 

So please, before you come to the forums and start complaining take a look at yourself if you give WG your money and with that are a part of the problem.

 

Best thing you can do to change things is to hit them in their wallet.

Play the game for free, only low and mid tier and one higher tier to grind to keep yourself sane(don't grind multiple high tiers at once without premium account).

Jump on every opportunity you can to let WG know you like the game but not the amount of money they try to beat out of you. You want to pay but have the feeling you don't get your money's worth at this time.

 

As long as you pay them there is no reason for them to change a single thing.

So just keep playing but stop giving the a single cent.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[NWP]
Beta Tester
1,196 posts
11,934 battles

Just remember that even if it is a 'free' game Wargaming needs to make money. And how do they make money? Sell premium account, premium currency or premium ships.

 

So they designed a game (or games), which let you play for free first, so you can test the game and decide if you like it or not. If you don't like it just move on. If you do like it you will notice that you hit a 'convenience wall' in between tier 7 and 8, i.e. without any of the above you will notice that advancing will become very tedious. This was the stock setting for World of Tanks when it launched in 2011 (I was there form the very beginning) and it also seems to be the stock setting for World of Warships.

 

So what can you do, once you hit this 'convenience wall'?

 

Either...

 

...go for a monthly subscription aka premium account (in my opinion the best solution as it saves the most time, because you will earn extra no matter the ship you use)

...buy one or more high tier premium ships (2nd best solution and it is partially cool to command a 'special' ship)

...convert premium currency into ingame currency (worst solution and not at all recommended, you can as well burn your money)

 

or...

 

...heavily invest time using your low tier ships to support your high tier ships.

 

When I started with Wargaming in 2011 I started as a 'freeloader' too but quickly hit exactly this 'convenience wall' in my tier 7 tank destroyer and had to decide what to do. Comming from years of playing World of Warcraft which up to this day charges monthly subscription and liking the game I decided to invest my money there and never ever looked back. I have a fulltime job and the best thing that I can buy myself is time / convenience. And 10 Euro a month for a game that you play countless hours each day/week/month is money well spend (30k battles in WoT over the course of 4 years).

 

Please note that I am not defending but just explaining WG's business model. I am on your side regarding the harsh settings of this 'convenience' or for some 'inconvenience' wall.

 

Note though that Wargaming had to lower the bar in WoT because they noticed that players simply stopped progressing due to the build in obstacle. Nobody with a sane mind played tier 10 because losses where horrible (even with a premium account and a decent game). However WG had decided that tier 10 was their desired endgame and now nobody was playing it. So what did WG do? Overhaul the complete economy and raise the convenience wall by approximately one tier (maybe more). Nowadays I can make a surplus even when playing tier 10 games (still remember I run premium account) if I have a decent game.

 

So there is light at the end of the tunnel for WoWs too, once they realize that people are deliverately not progressing any more.

 

I am just puzzled why WG launched the game with a business model that has already failed before, but perhaps this is also part of a business scheme that aims to reap as much money as possible early on and only lower the bar at a later date...

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,510 posts
10,542 battles

yes CVS and BBS have huge repair/restock and i think its ok because DDs and CL/CAs have low rep/resup costs. so you need to play different typs of ships and not just big badaboom stuff

 

Huh? Since when has repair cost differed across classes? Don't have the game here, but I think my neat Kiev and big fat Colorado cost about the same to repair (~50k).

 

Also I dont find tier 8 costs prohibitive.

Despite 90k credit repair, I tend to make a profit in my Benson even when it gets completely destroyed.

Didnt unlock tier 9-10 yet so I dont have an opinion on those, but 100k repair costs is acceptable imo. Tier 8+ vessels also make a lot more credits than lower tiers.

Edited by GulvkluderGuld

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[JRM]
Players
660 posts
10,865 battles

As someone said above, if costs for Tier 7+ were cheaper, who than would ever play lower tiers ships and how new players would progress trough tiers without company? When you reach high tier ship and it is too expensive to use it, it is wrong to sell it, you can use it for several battles per day and if things went wrong in them, you then pick one of your lower tier ships and earn some credits for new battles with your high tier ship. High tier battles are different, it is big boys game where players are more cautious.

Edited by albinbino

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[JUNK]
Players
849 posts
9,658 battles

Besides, as we all know, people don't grind multiple lines, and they never get bored of a single ship. I imagine about 90% of the server would have at least 1000 battles in yamato if not for the repairs. That's just human nature. /s

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
14 posts
1,492 battles

 

the goal isnt/shouldn't be pure profit but the balance between bigger profit/happy community. One of the first things my marketing professor told me is that "a happy customer will pay more" and therefor a happy player will bring more profit to WG.

 

No more words, that's all. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Quality Poster
4,345 posts
14,955 battles

When will people realise this is the GAME machainic!!  You want to play the cool high tier ships you have 3 options

 

1, Pay for Prem time

2, Buy Prem (money making) ships to fund the cool high tier ships

3,Play lower tier ships to fund your high tier Cool ships (spend NO Money)

 

Options 1 and 2 give wargamimg the funds to make the game worth developing. This is a proper Free to play machanic. there is no purchase of the media people can completely play every ship/Tank  (non Prem) in the game.  If you dont have Prem time/Ships. Don't expect to play high tier ships exclusivity.

 

Knock on effects of this matric!! People using option 3,something like 75% of WG player base  (at least in world of tanks) keep the lower tiers populated and thus making sure there are enough at lower tiers for the New gamers to play against. This is just about the best completely free to play metric i have ever seen!

 

There are other great Free(ish) machanics out there like Elite_Dangerous and Guild Wars 2 that are free to play AFTER you have bought the game. They are not true free to play

Edited by T0byJug
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,015 posts
4,182 battles

Besides, as we all know, people don't grind multiple lines, and they never get bored of a single ship. I imagine about 90% of the server would have at least 1000 battles in yamato if not for the repairs. That's just human nature. /s

 

Almost everyone I know / play with grinds 3-4 lines. Some even all of them. I have 3 and am still waiting to pull the trigger on IJN CVs (hopefully 0.5.2 buffs them back to pre 0.5.1).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Quality Poster
4,345 posts
14,955 battles

 

the goal isnt/shouldn't be pure profit but the balance between bigger profit/happy community. One of the first things my marketing professor told me is that "a happy customer will pay more" and therefor a happy player will bring more profit to WG.

 

In a normal market you Professor is correct! But when you add Free to the pot..People heads turn Dumb!  and expect everything for Free. so will never be happy! IF they change the matric where Tier 8+ can be played easily with no Prem Ships/Time people will play for free so wargaming will make no money! Then they will have to make Prem ships desirable by making them better than normal ships Or make Prem time give you preferential match making in order to encourage people to pay! Well that is PLAY to WIN and do any of us want that?

 

Ok i have only reached Teir 7 and yes i have many prem ships and have been prem player since on ships. I have no issue with Credist.(have over 50Mil) but saying that i love ships! I am not the player other people have categorised as the normal player. I am grinding DD(T7)/CA(T7)/CV(T6) and BB(T6 but 7 unlocked) in Americans, Japs DD(T7)/CA(T6)/BB(T5) Russian DD(T6) and German CA(T5) so thats 9 of the possible 10 lines in game (waiting for port slot sale in order to start JAp CV's)

 

View PostT_H_0_R, on 11 December 2015 - 08:41 AM, said:

 

Almost everyone I know / play with grinds 3-4 lines. Some even all of them. I have 3 and am still waiting to pull the trigger on IJN CVs (hopefully 0.5.2 buffs them back to pre 0.5.1).

 

 I play 9 of the possible 10 lines and if you count the Polish and British Prems as a line(in absence of there nation ) 11 of 12

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by T0byJug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
4,154 posts
9,221 battles

High repair pricess keep bad players out of high tiers. Without premium if you are above average player you should at least not lose any money in t10 ship. Win or lose does not really matter , With premium you should make a bit of profit , when you are good player you should make solid money in it .

Edited by KaraMon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
473 posts
3,725 battles

I like WoWs. Mechanics are awesome, it's fairly realistic, pretty and addictive. Great work on the developer's side.

 

I find it hard to make myself play anymore, tho. Same as many other people I speak with.

 

Ever since I reached Amagi, in 49 games (71% won) I averaged ~1400XP, ~80000dmg per game, which I believe are decent stats and by definition should progress me in the game.

 

What reality brings is repair+restocking costs of about 100k per game which is a little more than you get if you output 80000dmg.(I know other variables are involved, too)

So the game's economy is expecting me to have a brilliant game (little damage recieved, > 120k dmg dealt), to make measly 50k profit.

 

The result is as soon as people reach Tier VIII, they have to sell all of their fleet to buy the ridiculously overprices upgrades

 and whenever they play, they stay cautiously in the back and team work takes the backseat to self preservation.

 

You know those awesome games where there are 2 ships left on the other team and they run and hide in the corner of the map, waiting for the time to pass, cuz they know they'll lose anyway?

Whoever was put in charge of the game economy needs to take a class or two on customer retention and long term strategy.

 

Greed is mostly bad, nowadays. People wont pay you 20EUR for a coin pack so they can play with the ship they grinded to for months. There are always other games :)

 

Hope WG gets smart and tweaks it right. Shame to see such a beauty be another one of the greedy failures

 

Cheers

 

 

 

Great first post, sir! Have a +1. :medal:

 

I would have liked to say "welcome to the forums", but I suspect you won't be lurking around here much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×