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German battleship guns datamined

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So apparently some German battleship gun data has been datamined from the last patch. Surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet.

Reddit link: https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/3w339n/germany_bb_seems_coming_soon/

 

So, Deutschland T4, Mackensen T5? Seems likely now given the guns mentioned. Some seem to be missing though.

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My exact reaction

 

a29d98e5.gif

 

So it looks like H39 and H41 will be T9/T10

 

I think Deutschland could be T3, with Scharnhorst on T4?

 

EDIT: I think we actually might see two different lines of BB leading to T5 or something like that?

Edited by Troublemaker_CRO

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So apparently some German battleship gun data has been datamined from the last patch. Surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet.

Reddit link: https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/3w339n/germany_bb_seems_coming_soon/

 

So, Deutschland T4, Mackensen T5? Seems likely now given the guns mentioned. Some seem to be missing though.

 

Deutschland class BB on T4??? But that's a pre-dreadnought on Mikasa level... 

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My exact reaction

 

a29d98e5.gif

 

So it looks like H39 and H41 will be T9/T10

 

I think Deutschland could be T3, with Scharnhorst on T4?

 

EDIT: I think we actually might see two different lines of BB leading to T5 or something like that?

 

Naaa... Me thinks that Nassau will be a T3, but who knows

 

EDIT: As they avoid to duplicate class names, I wonder If they will give us Deutschland class BB, or Deutschland class CA

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I think Deutschland could be T3, with Scharnhorst on T4?

 

EDIT: I think we actually might see two different lines of BB leading to T5 or something like that?

 

T3 will be Helgoland, according the earliest guns are 305mm (there are no guns from the Nassau). So that make Deutschland indeed tier 4. but then again, how will they balance it to the Wyoming?

Scharnhorst will be probably 7, speed and armor clearly indicate that. Depend if we will see the 380 mm guns or only the 280mm.

 

 

Deutschland class BB on T4??? But that's a pre-dreadnought on Mikasa level... 

 

It's not the 1906 Deutschland.

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Wasn't the other one a cruiser class?

 

It could very well end up being the Karlsruhe of the German BB line. At least the Scharnhorst had BB rated armor (belt was like 14in thick or something), just slightly undergunned which can be remedied with the potential 15 in upgrades.  IIRC, you get the faster firing 11 in guns (3.5rpm iirc) vs the D-land also. 

 

The Deutschland though, cruiser rated armor, 28kts. With the original 2.5rpm 11 inch guns and in 2 turret config though..... RIP. I would imagine, WG thought they  couldn't stick it into the cruiser line (with 2.5 rpm), but buffing it would make it too strong for a "cruiser".

 

They'd have to tier it low or buff the RoF/Dispersion or something. 

Edited by byronicasian

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It really doesn't make sense for the Deutschlands to be shoehorned into the really early stages of the battleship tree, as others have pointed out - they are basically worse than the Myogi in practically every respect. You simply can't compare a 10,000 ton escort to a 25,000+ ton capital ship, no matter the age difference between them. It also doesn't make sense to lump an inter war ship with all of the pre-WWI ships. As we all know from the Cleveland, trying to force a ship into a period that it doesn't belong only causes problems. It's also not as if they are lacking in German ships of the right age and displacement to fill out the lower tiers of battleships. If they want to have more fast ships at the lower tiers, then they also have the German WWI battlecruisers to choose from, as Germany has enough battlecruiser designs over a long enough period to have a dedicated battlecruiser line going up to about T6.

 

Really they belong in T7-8 as a cruiser as the beginning of their own panzerschiffe branch (maybe with a preliminary design a tier earlier to flesh out the panzerschiffe line a bit more), alongside the other 10,000 ton treaty cruisers. They have bigger guns with more penetration than the other treaty cruisers and a stronger secondary battery, but a lower RoF, lower speed, fewer guns and comparable armour.

 

Scharnhorst at T7 seems like a distinct possibility, particularly with the option of the planned upgunning to 3x2 38cm guns. I'm pretty sure that, considering how Tirpitz does fine at T8, the 3x2 38cm guns will be a solid force at T7, while the standard 3x3 28cm guns would make them pretty solid cruiser hunters for those that don't want to go battleship hunting.

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agreed Ramirez, or at least that's how I feel before seeing the acutal stats WG will give them. Although one thing that could make the Deutschlands work and also be interesting to play would be to make them very very accurate (as in, close to regular cruiser level accurate, maybe 150m dispersion at around 15km, in contrast to the ridiculous spreads both the Wyoming and Myogi get) - that coupled with the presumably good fire rate of the 11"ers and the knack KM ships have for AP ammo might just make them epic cruiser hunters, and also able to punish other battleships for broadsiding...

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The Scharnhorsts 28cm guns should have pen comparable to the japanese 35cm guns, while having almost twice the rate of fire. She will be fine at least on T7.

 

There is absolutely no place for the Deutschland in a BB tree.

Even at T4 she is outmatched in every way by the Myogi. At T5 the Kongo will stomp her.

So the only place would be T3. There she would get snacked in close combat, but be able to outspeed and outrange the other BBs, making her potentially very powerful in capable hands.

But seriously, that's just bad balancing. Especially when you have two perfect candidates for T3 in the Nassau and Helgoland.

 

Just put the Deutschlands as T7 cruiser and the abomination we currently have there in the trash.

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I'm quite positive that we will see one of the WW1 BCs (Moltke / v.d.Tann / Seydlitz) at T4, not the Deutschland class. The Graf Spee has too much bundling potential! 

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agreed Ramirez, or at least that's how I feel before seeing the acutal stats WG will give them. Although one thing that could make the Deutschlands work and also be interesting to play would be to make them very very accurate (as in, close to regular cruiser level accurate, maybe 150m dispersion at around 15km, in contrast to the ridiculous spreads both the Wyoming and Myogi get) - that coupled with the presumably good fire rate of the 11"ers and the knack KM ships have for AP ammo might just make them epic cruiser hunters, and also able to punish other battleships for broadsiding...

 

It's not just the balance aspect, it's easy enough to fiddle the numbers to make things relatively balanced no matter where their are in the tech trees, it's more just how the tier lines are roughly in chronological order (admittedly the different lines don't quite follow the same age process, but at least it is fairly consistent within a line). I don't care too much about realism overall, but it would be really jarring to have a nice WWI fleet battle, except for a single errant interwar cruiser. It would mean that the Panzerschiffe will never actually be able to face most of their historical opponents in game, as practically all the ships they faced are or will likely be T7+. It would be like shoehorning the Tsukuba-class armoured cruisers into T9 or T10 because of their large main battery, which I'm sure is achievable with sufficient balance tweaks, when really they should be with Mikasa at T2.

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I wonder what names could be attributed to the Tier 9 and 10 battleships, since I don't think that they will appear as "H39" and "H41".

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I'm pretty sure there are at least two "famous" surnames that start with the letter "H" :trollface:.

 

Though, they might just take the WoT-route and use the designated names.

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I'm pretty sure there are at least two "famous" surnames that start with the letter "H" :trollface:.

 

Though, they might just take the WoT-route and use the designated names.

 

Well, I don't see them using these surnames... :hmm:

 

I think that the issue with this idea is that for tanks is one thing, since one can build thousands of units of a same design; it's a tad more difficult doing the same for a battleship design...

Edited by Historynerd

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So we get:

 

-Tier 3 Helgoland: To bad. No cute Nassaus.

-Tier 4 Deutschland: Terrible armored and only 2x3 28 cm guns... I am not happy with that. Tirpitz seems in addition  to loose her unique trait, since the Deutschlands had several deckmounted torpedo launchers at stern

-Tier 5: Mackensen: So goodbye BC tree... *sigh*. Why?! Thicker armor, equal speed, similar guns... Have fun Kongou!

-Tier 6: Bayern: Solid choice. Very similar to the Warspite/ Queen Elizabeth class.

-Tier 7: Scharnhorst: Very fast indeed, heavy armored. But I have doubts, that the 28cm guns will be viable enough.

-Tier 8: Bismarck (Confirmed)

-Tier 9: H39 As expected.

-Tier 10: H 41 probably. No gun here?

-

-

Edited by 506_Mephisto

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If they but Deutschland as a tier 4 BB other than a tier 6-7 cruiser I will quit playing the game and with that stop throwing money at WG

 

besides that the expected tree looks good with Mackensen beeing a tier 5 n stuff

Edited by kotkiller

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I wonder what names could be attributed to the Tier 9 and 10 battleships, since I don't think that they will appear as "H39" and "H41".

 

There are lot of applicable names even if we exclude nazis and already taken names like Roon and Hindenburg, for example i would like to see:

H39 - "Götz von Berlichingen" (that would probably be hard to pronounce for lot of people) or "Florian Geyer"

H41 - "Friedrich Barbarossa"

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Or maybe we could get an incomplete Panzerschiffe tree since the guns on the Scharnhorst were also meant to be mounted on the P-class. Then again, we could still be missing additional/more stuff so I doubt the tree is completely finalized. 

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There are lot of applicable names even if we exclude nazis and already taken names like Roon and Hindenburg, for example i would like to see:

H39 - "Götz von Berlichingen" (that would probably be hard to pronounce for lot of people) or "Florian Geyer"

H41 - "Friedrich Barbarossa"

But nothing would be more badass, as a ship named after the knight with the iron hand. :)

In addition it could be likely because  Hitler, although inofficially, proposed that specific name. And to be fair, I get headache from people trying to pronounce the names of german Cruisers. It couldn't get worse. ;)

 

Hitler considered naming those ships not after people (and other namesakes) connected to the third reich, to prevent a more severe impact on the morale of the people (Same reason why Deutschland was renamed) if said vessel was sunk, and suggested several german historical figures.

 

Edited by 506_Mephisto

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Battleship Barbarossa sounds awesome, and that's a name most everyone will recognize, like Hindenburg. And then we can have something obscure at T9 to mirror Roon :P

 

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So we get:

 

-Tier 3 Helgoland: To bad. No cute Nassaus.

-Tier 4 Deutschland: Terrible armored and only 2x3 28 cm guns... I am not happy with that. Tirpitz seems in addition  to loose her unique trait, since the Deutschlands had several deckmounted torpedo launchers at stern

-Tier 5: Mackensen: So goodbye BC tree... *sigh*. Why?! Thicker armor, equal speed, similar guns... Have fun Kongou!

-Tier 6: Bayern: Solid choice. Very similar to the Warspite/ Queen Elizabeth class.

-Tier 7: Scharnhorst: Very fast indeed, heavy armored. But I have doubts, that the 28cm guns will be viable enough.

-Tier 8: Bismarck (Confirmed)

-Tier 9: H39 As expected.

-Tier 10: H 41 probably. No gun here?

-

-

Tier 4 - I know how you feel.  However, every tree needs its "Karlsruhe" to encourage people to spend money free XPing past it.  :trollface:

Tier 7 - Scharnhorst HAS to have the bigger guns, at least as an option, if they ultimately put the KGV class at tier 7 in the British Tree. (If KGV goes to Tier 8...well..that's different.)

I'd love to see fair fights between a KGV and the Scharnhorst in WoWS.  The real life battle was unbalanced in favour of the Royal Navy of course (and say this as a Brit)

 

The rest of the tree looks pretty good to my un-expert eyes though. Bring it on! :)

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