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Why is everbody so scared going forward?

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In almost all battles in ranked (equal in lower 5-6 and higher 7-8) is some fobia about close quarter battle.

Nobody assaults, just staying at max range exchanging salvos that have like 1-5% hit rating.

Even if I specifically ask for assistance that we will move as group (BB player) some cruiser or the other BB stays at max.

Can anybody enlighten me?

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In almost all battles in ranked (equal in lower 5-6 and higher 7-8) is some fobia about close quarter battle.

Nobody assaults, just staying at max range exchanging salvos that have like 1-5% hit rating.

Even if I specifically ask for assistance that we will move as group (BB player) some cruiser or the other BB stays at max.

Can anybody enlighten me?

 

I love getting stuck in and getting my hands dirty, but experience has shown me that doing so is also a quick ticket to hell. So I pick and choose my targets to make sure no supporting ship is in range or is too busy with its own battles and then charge in shoot and charge out again. It works most of the time and I've taken down many a battleship that way, but I only play cruisers so its probably a lot different for BB's.
Edited by Antony1953

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If you charge alone you are focused fast as closest ship (logic)

But the problem is that with this mindset you cant make any reasonable charge in fleet because half of it just refuses to go.... And you fail and sink because 3 of 6 other people just have some sort of deadzone at minimal range

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Alpha Tester
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Frankly the problem is that most of the 'players' playing don't have the situational awareness to properly gauge when to commit and to what. Henceforth, they either yolo or kemp at the wrong times.

 

Sadly, a large percentage of those 'players' are perfectly fine with not having that insight, as it would burden their 'fun' to much if they actually played to win a a team based MMO. 

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Everybody's afraid of going first and is hoping others push instead since they don't want to get focus fired by 3+ ships.

Often the others don't even follow if somebody steps up because they think "He is being focus fired and will die soon, then I'm next".

 

Got a 43% survival rate in my Nagato.


Just take a look at the team placement on the minimap of this screenshot:

 XPpAihF.jpg


Got 2 cruisers on the other side of the map not doing anything, 3 BBs still at base 6 minutes in and me having fun with 4 BBs, 3 cruisers and 2 DDs at the same time. Yay!

 

 

It's not nearly as much of a problem on the lower tiers. My survival rates with the Fuso and Kongo are 65% and 70%.
 

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Beta Tester
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When 6 ships engage 6 ships in a perfect communicating game all 6 would fire on the same ship, ofc this doesnt happen, all 12 captains pick whats their best target and go for it,

 

when some aggressive Captain such as yourself goes forward and no one comes with him, all the enemys can see is you in range so now theres no coms necessary all 6 ships will fire on you. 

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Alpha Tester
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Just take a look at the team placement on the minimap of this screenshot:

 

Even your division mate is fleeing. You also shouldn't push in that situation. Against 2-3 enemies, why not, but aginst that blob it's suicide.

 

To OP:

People don't push for few reasons other than cowardice:

1. BB - lone BB is dead BB, that class may be strong, but they MUST have a support. Armor is not helping, when going against numerical advantage BB is getting quickly burned. AP is also quite dangerous, even from cruisers. Worst bane are japanese destroyers, even if they don't actually hit anything. Fighting solo against Minekaze is one of the worst, fun killing thing the BB captain could experience.

2. Cruisers - cruisers under fire balance on a razor's edge - they must find just the right range. Too close and it's citadelfest for the enemy BB's and cruisers. Too far and they are out of range or at least out of their captain aiming skill.

3. DD - when they are spotted, it's usually either knife fight with other DD, which is very risky, or it is close to the enemy fleet. Nobody wants sudden torps so DD are usually focused and killed by everything that can shoot. Japanese DD are special case where they are so UP in everything except torps that they should not want to get spotted ever.

4. All classes - at the first half of the battle, when enemy sails in groups, getting closer than others means getting focusfire from usually 2-4 ships. That is quick ticket do Davy's locker.

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[LOBUZ]
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Tried to push forward for the cap in first two minutes in my Essex once. Didn't work out well so that's why I stay in the back nowadays.

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Alpha Tester
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Tried to push forward for the cap in first two minutes in my Essex once. Didn't work out well so that's why I stay in the back nowadays.

 

Essex such stealth and much turn speed, I would play her as DD as well. 

 

:trollface:

 

Seriously, yesterday again: pushing and tanking in a tier IV BB for a mostly tier VI team, and yet I still find myself alone because the rest forgot their W key existed. I even had to laugh because usually it's the cruisers complaining about camping battleships: BULL CRAP ( well not always ofc ).

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Beta Tester
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In almost all battles in ranked (equal in lower 5-6 and higher 7-8) is some fobia about close quarter battle.

Nobody assaults, just staying at max range exchanging salvos that have like 1-5% hit rating.

Even if I specifically ask for assistance that we will move as group (BB player) some cruiser or the other BB stays at max.

Can anybody enlighten me?

 

Do you even have the faintest idea what ship paint costs these days?

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Beta Tester, Players
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i just had a match on New dawn, i was in my Fuso and started in the south eastern end of the map,  capped the closest point and move my way north west to support the other caps. other team had a Kongo who started in the north east of the map and by the end was in the north west part, he never once went south of the B line untill i actually went and hunted him down near the north west cap. The entire match he just took max range pot shots and hide behind their CV's. he "Kemp carrier"

 

the only reason why i sunk and he lived is because they has competent CV players. I would have been royaly pissed off if he took the killing blow of my Fuso away from the CV. Happily he did poorly and got 0 kills. Still frustrating to play against.

 

When your in a battle ship, MOVE UP and dont play like your a TD or SPG from tanks.  

Edited by Flashy_NLR

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Beta Tester
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They are afraid of having to pay repair cost... not seeing of course that it doesnt save them to camp in the back since they will get sunk anyway when everybody else has died.

 

But hey, the modern gaming industry has taught the modern player that there is only success and the player can never do anything wrong - thus a game that demands effort is seen as badly designed or unfair.

Yep, ranting again... where is my coffee?

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Also one of the reasons people don't like pushing is when there are alot of enemy DDs (3-5) and the map has lots of ambush points/islands and no carrier to spot anything. They don't want to put themselves anywhere near where torpedo ambushes might occur. Especially so if most of those dds are IJN it seems. 

 

 

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It does get annoying though,when you help with the push and get tunnel visioned firing at a ship in your range,only to find yourself all alone with four ships firing at you because everyone else has done a runner :angry:

 

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[AXIS]
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While it pisses me off, I kind of understand why. Especially in higher tiers.

A BB has a lot of range and could technically hit things more then half way across the map even if they don't actually do that many hits. It will be far outside CA range. So CA's have to choose, camp with the BBs or get concentrated fire from the enemy team because they are the closest targets.

Combined with the high costs of losing a ship it would be natural that you stay away so you can dodge the shells shot at you.

 

Main part of the reason why I switched to DDs and CVs. Those classes can get in close and personal solo while being able to survive the outcome with a lot of skill and a bit of luck.

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There are so many reasons - but at the end of the day, its the BB's that gotta lead the push - ideally the brawlers. But there are a lot of reasons not to and those BB captains need to know when to go and when not to. I like pushing - and I pushed a lot (in the Tier 5-7 US BB's). Tier 8 is a lot different, however.

But Tier 5-7, generally, BB's are afraid to push due to enemy DD's. Cruisers are afraid due to enemy BB's (and general focus fire from everyone) - so imho, for a push to happen, most of the enemy DD's need to be either dead or proved to be at the other end of the map first (doesn't have to be all - there's a reason the brawlers are pretty agile once upgraded - I had a pretty good record of dodging torps in my Colorado)

Then the BB can push. It has to be them because they are slow - they will get left behind if others push.. and the cruisers don't have the durability to go first - especially if they are keeping to BB speed to avoid getting too far ahead.

Sometimes cruisers will push forward a little turn and run back - trying to encourage their BB to push, being ready to push with him - but I think the BB player often misreads this and only sees them running back and so turns and runs with them.

Sometimes Cruisers don't realise how slow a BB is and push too far ahead of them, get themselves killed - and so when a BB gets close enough to push, he has no support so can't.

Sometimes, the BB player just doesn't realise how dangerous he can be up close and thinks its his job to provide long-range fire all game.

Sometimes nobody realise how few the enemy in front of them are.

Sometimes ppl don't want to push cos they don't think they'll get any support.

Sometimes people forget that the enemy are likely to turn and run if you do push and expect the worst.

Sometimes people forget that a push doesn't have to be forever - ie until you ar the enemy are dead.  It makes sense for BB's to push so far, then drop back to repair. If other BB's can take over the spearhead, then the push can continue (although it's VERY rare this happens - mostly they'd rather watch you burn than get their paint scratched), if not - well it depends on what shape the enemy are in.


 

Here's the thing, tho. IF a BB pushes and is taking fire in doing so, friendly ships will often feel comfortable in pushing with him knowing that they are not getting targeted. Then if the enemy sees a number of ships pushing towards them - they often turn and run - reducing their firepower - and making them VERY vulnerable at the point that they turn. This is usually where pushes win the game.


 

T8 I found to be very different.. the NC's armour is very good from the front - but poor from the side. And stock, has no agility whatsoever, so can become torp-bait. It also has pretty good range and forward-facing firepower. This leads to a playstyle of pointing your front to the enemy BB's and shooting. I find that pushing forward means getting citadelled from the side - especially with the range of BB's in that tier - so its only something that's even remotely viable late in the game. So it ends up with me sailing forwards a bit, shooting, and then when getting too close for comfort - reversing!  I don't really lile the way it plays at the mo - hoping the hull upgrade improves the agility enough to let me do more than that.


 

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Because 90% of them are zombies. I've seen people being afraid to push 5v2, run even if we have numbers in our favor and lose battles due to that. Why? I don't know.. BRAAAINZZZ

 

EDIT: If someone is not willing to pay full repair bill so he wouldn't end up with negative income, especially at T7/T8 where its still tolerable. HE IS AN IDIOT. Sadly, it seems that a lot of people don't know that you earn 50% more credits/xp in a win than in a lose and they just end up paying the repair bill and losing instead of getting some income and win :)

Edited by Troublemaker_CRO

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. Sadly, it seems that a lot of people don't know that you earn 50% more credits/xp in a win than in a lose and they just end up paying the repair bill and losing instead of getting some income and win :)

 

This is factually true! I once said this in chat and was called a lot of weird names and explained why I am a noob.

I feel that the information should appear in the loading menu, I have the feeling that a lot of the players have no clue that winning per se is a 1.5x more credits and xp.

Of course that wouldn't solve the problem, it's frequent to see large groups turning back in face of a mighty solo ship.

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I was very successful in the first season of ranked being v aggressive in my Fuso and dragging people with me.  Usually they could see the benefits of not losing my ship so they were forced to try and help but the game has changed since then.  DDs are the norm and charging in against 3-5 DDs is a bad idea.  I still want to be aggressive but I cannot be as much as I would like as it is a very quick road to death.

 

To illustrate my point see the screenshot below - the first EVER time I have used HE as a my predominate ammo type in a BB.

 

wows_055.jpg

 

we won but only after I convinced all 5 DDs to focus on 1 flag. I got first blood too :D

Edited by ilhilh

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Just yesterday I was about to lead a charge in my North Carolina, as our flank was clearly superior, even announced it in chat 'follow me, I take the lead' only to find myself under a barrage of enemy cruiser HE spam, while my own cruisers turned tail and stayed out of effective reach. Only due to good shooting (citadels) and much luck (very few fires) I managed to survive with 7k HP out of 66k HP left, having used repair two times. So much for BBs have to initiate the push...

 

Apart from the above example there are a multitude of reasons to stay back, especially if you consider yourself playing against up to 23 other players.

 

From that there are two main reasons, namely enemy accuracy and focus fire.

 

Accuracy: Even bad or low tier players will hit and hurt you when you come too close. Taking the NC as an example, I can easily duel 3 enemy Colorados while on 17km+, however I will be sunk in an instance once I go below 10km. I am not saying that I can win against 3 in an long range engagement, however if played correctly I will not go down fast on those distances, buying my team precious time and probably even being able to do some damage myself. So if I am a better shot than my enemy, be it by better accuracy guns, more range or better lead it is always better (for you, possibly not the team) to stay back and do a ranged duel.

 

Focus fire: Others already said it, the one who leads will draw automatic focus fire due to the above point (accuracy). So before you go in you really have to check about your own support (will they be able to exploit your advance or not) and if you might manage considerably more damage than you receive on your own account, i.e. if my BB goes in versus multiple CAs I better get those juicy citadels fast or I will end a bonfire.

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Even your division mate is fleeing. You also shouldn't push in that situation. Against 2-3 enemies, why not, but aginst that blob it's suicide.

 

Of course it is, although the more enemies I tank the more honor and imaginary internet points I obviously get. :)

I don't blame any of the nearby cruisers for running away, I did the same thing, just took me a while longer since I'm a BB and if you got 9 enemy ships aiming at you you gotta think carefully about when to expose your broadside.

I was putting the focus on the 3 BBs still sitting at base sniping and the 2 cruisers on the other side of the map who took the long way around and were never of any use during the entire match.

 

DDs are the norm and charging in against 3-5 DDs is a bad idea.  I still want to be aggressive but I cannot be as much as I would like as it is a very quick road to death.

 

You are bringing up a good point there. The prevalence of DDs these days has definitely made pushing even rarer and for good reason. If 2-3 DDs are throwing torpedos towards a wall of ships, something is bound to hit.

Even when people decide to bundle up and start to push, they think twice about that decision and usually turn around again once they start seeing 10+ torpedoes coming their way.

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it's frequent to see large groups turning back in face of a mighty solo ship.

 

I hope for no ban for this

Its gipsy logic "He is going to shoot somebody before he is down... and It might be me"

thats why a gipsy group never attacks anyone with gun, specially the police.

 

(this is very old, like 1918, saying from Czech Republic, please dont ban me :)

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In almost all battles in ranked (equal in lower 5-6 and higher 7-8) is some fobia about close quarter battle.

Nobody assaults, just staying at max range exchanging salvos that have like 1-5% hit rating.

Even if I specifically ask for assistance that we will move as group (BB player) some cruiser or the other BB stays at max.

Can anybody enlighten me?

 

I often try to be be agressive in my battleships, but it does not happen often I get proper support even when I explicitly ask for it. I think it is the natural aversion to take risks that prevent many other players from joining in, or perhaps not too many of them speak english.

 

It is very strange, because often enough I collect more XP in the short time I participate in the battle then other BB players who survived the game. On top of that, when others do participate in the push such an attack is often decisive.

 

Cheers, M

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Kinda simple to me. If you push, you are being focused by enemy team. Since BBs have range about 20km, you are being hit by a lot. And another very important aspect - every halfbrained DD player will send torps at you, so you will have to dodge them which usually means showing broadside...which is suicide. I really do think that main problem is huge range of ships which allows to react on every push very easily. Like in first world war - sure you can push, but its pretty hard to not fail.

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