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SIMS Needs Buffing - WarshipStats/ShipAnalytics Proves It

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Beta Tester
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According to WarshipStats/ShipAnalytics (both for NA and EU), Sims is the least capable ship in the game for her tier (t7), and even if she was at a substantially lower tier.

 

Sims' Average Damage per Battle compares poorly even with tier 4 and tier 3 DDs, her Plane Kill Rate is poor for tier 7 and tier 6, and her Ship Kill Rate and Win Rate are among the worst for any ship, of any tier, in the game.

In fact, there's no role Sims is good for, except Port Decoration!

 

Sims needs buffing, significantly and urgently.

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Beta Tester
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yep en credtid  in come is verry low repair kost is verry hige     torp speed of 9.2 is to low en  the 5.5 is just craprange fore tier 7 its not tier 4 wen you just  torp some 1 that close     en than the wore ting i realy dont like is how hige the shels go  thy just go to mars en back  if you shoot  10 km   70 % miss even bb can dodeg your shots   some ting to cry about :( i realy hope

 

wg wil fix this ship its needs it soo hard  :( :angry:

 

sry vore  my bad English 

im frome the nederlands XD 

 

 

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Weekend Tester
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I certainly agree, it's a bad ship. The last "improvement" with new torpedoes did not fix it at all. 

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Beta Tester
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I will repeat what everybody said and knows....

 

1) Huge shells arc and huge travel time (good luck hitting anything)

2) Very slow torps, (you have to predict where the target will be in the forseable distant future!)

3) Very low torp dmg (once a cruiser knew I was around an island, he came at me nevertheless, I unloaded all my torps on him and.... he lived with enough HP to kill me....)

4) Non-existant AA.... (once a carrier player decides to "park" his plane above you..... good luck....)

5) Turrets get damaged even easier than the rest DDs!

 

Edited by Stugga
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[BRIT6]
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I agree.. I really thought this ship would benefit from the reason changes to torps in the last patch to USN DD's but that was not to be... it got a buff to the rate of fire. The arc on the shots and poor detection range kill this ship. I got rightly shafted on this purchase

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[GRKEN]
Beta Tester
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2) Very slow torps, (you have to predict where the target will be in the forseable distant future!)

3) Very low torp dmg (once a cruiser knew I was around an island, he came at me nevertheless, I unloaded all my torps on him and.... he lived with enough HP to kill me....)

"Upgraded" torps are basically tier 3 torps.

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[RAIN]
Beta Tester
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I agree it could use a buff, but ive had alot of great games in it and its one of my biggest earners for both gold and XP. I think alot of players play it way to aggressive

 

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Beta Tester
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ive had alot of great games in it and its one of my biggest earners for both gold and XP. I think alot of players play it way to aggressive

 

This is about Objective Statistics, Distribution Curves, and a Sample size of well over 150,00 Battles - not Subjective assessments by one or even several players, which are of no significance Statistically.
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[BLOBS]
Beta Tester
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It got buffed allready and was utill  recently better than the Maham.  The shellarc isnt something new for US DDs.

What could be more of a factor might be people that drive  her without an expirienced US DD captain..

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Beta Tester
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What could be more of a factor might be people that drive  her without an expirienced US DD captain..

 

It's a premium ship, meaning, if nothing else, sailing her makes your captain more experienced than any other DD of her tier, unless you mean, buying it out of the box and playing her directly without going through the DD lines (to add up captain XP), but that's not the case, we are all talking about. We are talking about normal situations.. :-/
Edited by Stugga

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[BLOBS]
Beta Tester
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Well only  if you have gone thogh the US line. I didnt touched my Sims before i got to the Nicolas.Especaly for DDS Captain skills greatly improve your surviability. 3 skillpoints at T7 is a uphill battle.

 

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Beta Tester
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It ... was utill  recently better than the Maham (sic).

 

Clearly, you haven't even bothered to check WarshipStats/ShipAnalytics, a cursory glance at which disproves your claim, in every statistical category.

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[BLOBS]
Beta Tester
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Clearly, you haven't even bothered to check WarshipStats/ShipAnalytics, a cursory glance at which disproves your claim, in every statistical category.

 

And my point was ; Manny CBT player who own it dindt started to replay the US DD line at the start of the OBT since they wanted to try something new. Especally since suddelly DDs were much more fragile then they were in CBT. A level 7 DD with short range Torps (the long range didnt exist till recently) in games mostly with Atagos/atlantas/Warspites and later Tirpitzes and fast Leveleing CVs didnt exactly boosted the stats overall. Especallys when its only good grace (inv gun fire) has a rather small window without AFT. Now you have more expoirenced captains but the competions especally is more rqual. Its still a good Crewtrainer. But u cant look at not so much played Prem on its own. its not like an Maham were you sure the player has hundereds of US DD games under its belt automatical.

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Beta Tester
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And my point was ; Manny CBT player who own it dindt started to replay the US DD line at the start of the OBT since they wanted to try something new. Especally since suddelly DDs were much more fragile then they were in CBT. A level 7 DD with short range Torps (the long range didnt exist till recently) in games mostly with Atagos/atlantas/Warspites and later Tirpitzes and fast Leveleing CVs didnt exactly boosted the stats overall. Especallys when its only good grace (inv gun fire) has a rather small window without AFT. Now you have more expoirenced captains but the competions especally is more rqual. Its still a good Crewtrainer. But u cant look at not so much played Prem on its own. its not like an Maham were you sure the player has hundereds of US DD games under its belt automatical.

 

I've cited solid, highly-significant, publicly-available, Statistical data, whereas your entire argument is built on assumptions, conjecture, speculation and contradictions.

 

First you said the vast majority of battles in Sims must have been played with untrained crews and before it was buffed, now you say it's primarily been used since it was "buffed", as a crew trainer for highly-skilled US DD crews - you can't have it both ways. Your initial premise is simply ludicrous; your second premise suggests that, even with a highly-skilled crew and recent "buffs", Sims is still a turd; and neither of your premises is supported by one iota of evidence.

 

You claim that Sims is a great Credit and XP earner, yet almost all Credits and XP are earned based on Damage Caused, and the Statistics prove that Sims is simply not capable of causing significant damage, sinking ships or shooting down airplanes, or even surviving, on anything like a consistent basis. Therefore your claim can be dismissed as unsupported and subjective speculation.

 

Your claim that we "can't look at not so much played Prem on its own" (sic), is wrong in two respects:

Firstly, well over 150,000 battles in the Sims is a highly significant Sample size, statistically, and disproves your assertion that it's "not so much played".

Secondly, WarshipStats/ShipAnalytics enables us easily to compare Sims with other tier 7 and lower tier DDs (and other ship types), both Premium and non-Premium, and to show that it compares very poorly in all respects even with tier 4 DDs - so we're not looking at Sims "on its own", as you assert.

 

Either bring significant evidence to support your many, and contradictory, claims and assertions, or stop trolling this thread.

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[TORCH]
[TORCH]
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US DD's are my favorite and my mains but i have to disagree on this because there is nothing wrong with it. You cant expect an advantage in a PvP game just because its premium that makes it Pay to Win, it plays pretty much the exact same as the Mahan and i dont see anyone complaining about that ship, because again there is nothing wrong with it. Sims needs love from a EXPERIENCED player not a PATCH, it doesnt need one...

 

The problem with premiums is anyone with a wallet can buy it, but you dont buy experience with that wallet, you earn that by time spent and playing. As such is the general problem when it comes to premiums.

 

I will repeat what everybody said and knows....

 

1) Huge shells arc and huge travel time (good luck hitting anything) Same as every US DD. Fast Firing/Turning Turrets for high arcs of fire, Ru DD + IJN DD have slow turrets with low arcs.

2) Very slow torps, (you have to predict where the target will be in the forseable distant future!) Same as every US DD pretty much because they are hybrids long range = slow torps, short range = fast torps its either 1 or the other.

3) Very low torp dmg (once a cruiser knew I was around an island, he came at me nevertheless, I unloaded all my torps on him and.... he lived with enough HP to kill me....) Probably more luck than lack of damage it happensYou also fire 8 of them instead of  3 like IJN, same as the Mahan. Ru DD= short range fast torps because they are generally gunboats not torp boats.

4) Non-existant AA.... (once a carrier player decides to "park" his plane above you..... good luck....) Same as every DD they are not cruisers, with the exception of Ru DD's have good AA, but regardless any CV that wants to light you up, will. Such is the life of a DD.

5) Turrets get damaged even easier than the rest DDs! Ofc, try playing Ru DD's though, overall turrets will die quick anyways its again, a DD, turrets have no armor. Every DD' turrets are weak and can blow quickly if unlucky.

 

This just proves my point at the start of my post, before you start quoting facts learn to play the class high tier DD game play is different. Premiums......  Not saying every premium player is the same, they are not, it varies from person to person everyone has different skills and traits, strengths and weakness's but with premiums especially in a specialist class bring inexperienced players and all of what you have said is what an inexperienced player would say because they are in a class they have little experience or no experience in playing. 

 

Edited by Shade_UK

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Beta Tester
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it plays pretty much the exact same as the Mahan 

 

 

I reiterate: WarshipStats/ShipAnalytics PROVES that the Sims is significantly worse than the Mahan, in every performance category.

 

Kindly keep your obvious, and irrelevant, prejudice against players who buy and use Premium ships (which are an integral part of the game, and an important factor in WG's profitability - without which there wouldn't be a game) out of this Premium ship-related thread.

 

Sims owners must have bought the ship in order to access the CBT (it seems I have to remind you that it hasn't been available since before the end of the CBT), therefore they are likely to be, on average, very experienced players who've been playing WoWS for many months and are likely, by now, to have highly-skilled crews. If they can't make Sims work, no-one can.

 

Your and Spellfire40's suggestion that CBT players bought the Sims then left it on the shelf, while they gained all their experience in Cruisers, Battleships, Carriers, but never US DDs (except when they took out their Sims to have a lousy battle - well over 150,000 times!), is frankly ludicrous.

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Beta Tester
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Shade UK are you out of your freaking mind? You say that bullsh*t and ppl who don't know may read it and think you got a point?

 

1) Huge shells arc and huge travel time (good luck hitting anything) Same as every US DD. Fast Firing/Turning Turrets for high arcs of fire, Ru DD + IJN DD have slow turrets with low arcs. /// <===  The shell trajectory is not same as other US DDs! I got BOTH Mahan and Sims and Mahan is better! Farragut was better too! (and I'm sure Benson will be better too! lol)

2) Very slow torps, (you have to predict where the target will be in the forseable distant future!) Same as every US DD pretty much because they are hybrids long range = slow torps, short range = fast torps its either 1 or the other. /// <=== Not same as every US DD!! Sims' torps = 49 knots, Mahan's etc 55 knots! (Are you pulling those "facts" out of your a55???)

3) Very low torp dmg (once a cruiser knew I was around an island, he came at me nevertheless, I unloaded all my torps on him and.... he lived with enough HP to kill me....) Probably more luck than lack of damage it happensYou also fire 8 of them instead of  3 like IJN, same as the Mahan. Ru DD= short range fast torps because they are generally gunboats not torp boats. /// <=== It was not (just) RNG! Sims has the lowest dmg torps of similar tiers!! Example, 8,5k dmg for Sims torps and 11,6k dmg for Mahan! and don't tell me but Sims reloads torps faster cuz Mahan has one more torp tube!

4) Non-existant AA.... (once a carrier player decides to "park" his plane above you..... good luck....) Same as every DD they are not cruisers, with the exception of Ru DD's have good AA, but regardless any CV that wants to light you up, will. Such is the life of a DD. /// <== With other US DDs! (cuz it's mostly the US SIMILAR DDs we compare their AA with), have much better AA and anyway MOST IMPORTANTLY, enough AA to FEND OFF the enemy plane a carrier player can park on you to perma spot you. You can't do that with the Sims!! -- Note: If other nations' DDs have less AA firepower that's not a DD comparison but a faction/nation ships' characteristics! (US has better AA, IJN and Ger does not!! so don't compare AAs with different nations!)

5) Turrets get damaged even easier than the rest DDs! Ofc, try playing Ru DD's though, overall turrets will die quick anyways its again, a DD, turrets have no armor. Every DD' turrets are weak and can blow quickly if unlucky. /// <== The only thing I admit I can not comment because I do not play higher tier RU DD (up to tier 5 atm) but as I said its turrets get more easilly damaged than other US DDs

 

This just proves my point at the start of my post, before you start quoting facts learn to play the class high tier DD game play is different. Premiums......  Not saying every premium player is the same, they are not, it varies from person to person everyone has different skills and traits, strengths and weakness's but with premiums especially in a specialist class bring inexperienced players and all of what you have said is what an inexperienced player would say because they are in a class they have little experience or no experience in playing. /// <== This just proves that your "facts" are out of your a55!! lol

 

 

Sims plays exactly the same as Mahan you said.... That's a big LOL. Sims' plays entirely differently or rather one way only!.... It takes advantage of its faster speed and gun rotation and plays purely as a gunboat while using your torps only (or rather mainly) for zone control because their dmg is laughable and you rarely hit due to very slow torp speed while Mahan can play half its game also as a stealth torp DD cuz its torp dmg is very decent plus it can hit more reliably due to the increased torp speed!.. Also, Mahan is not afraid to be perma spotted by enemy plane(s) flying above it so it can venture solo while you *should* keep Sims not very far away from nearby cruiser or BB support in order to retreat to them in case some carrier player wants to perma spot you. With Mahan, you can go for gun dmg or torp dmg or capping points or w/e, with Sims your main goal (if you want to a) win b) contribute to the team to your best of your ships' ability) is to contest cap points and support your friendly flotilla (teammates).! - That's not "they play exactly the same way" mate!! Not at all by far!!

Note: The reason you don't hit as reliably with Sims torps is not their "detection reaction time" which is similar but because the torps are so slow that the "target" eventually rarely is where he is "supposed to be" after aaaallll this time it takes your SLOW torps to get there!!

 

I'm sorry to pull the stats out on you mate, but you got a 52% overall win rate, I got 56%. You do NOT play SIMS!!! (unless you play it a few games in some friends' account) and your win rate with Mahan is 53%, whereas I got 61% WR with Mahan (and twice the battles in it) and 59% WR with Sims, so clearly I'm doing something better in both those ships than you and maybe I know them better than you!! --- And if you don't play Sims indeed, I don't even know what to say about it and why you posted!

 

 

edit: And to the other posters that said, "but I see Sims is getting quite the XP in post battle results", that's only because 1) recent buffs to XP from capping/defending bases and most importantly 2) they have given Sims (as in every ship in order to balance them) a much bigger multiplier to XP gains to compensate of how much underperforming this ship is. You can not compare XP, you should compare win rates, average dmg, etc! from which as other poster above said is clearly evident how underperforming this ships is!!

 

And as other poster said above, I had bought Sims in order to get in closed beta, I was among the top 5% of the most battles participated during CBT, I played quite a few games with it, I know the ship and how to play it and I know how to play the other DDs as well. I can tell the difference and heck yeah, my crew is way more experienced than most others'. I'm gonna get her concealment too soon!  So when I say this ship underperforms, f*ck yeah, it does!  - Simply put, it underperforms so much I wish I had bought a Gremmy instead and save me quite a few euros as well !!! - It surely does not justity the amount of Euros I gave and it makes far less credits as a tier 7 premium ship than any other similar premium ship! A tier 7 premium ship with an average of 100k credits or so as profits per game, that I can get with a normal tier 5 ship! It has the credit making ability of a tier 5 and the repair bills of a tier 7!! Other premium tier 7s get 200-250k+ per game profits (tier 8s (only 1 tier above!!) make 300-400k+ plus!!)), and even Murmansk/Marblehead at tier 5 as well as Gremmy make more profits than it! What else to say!!!????????????

Edited by Stugga
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Players
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I have to agree with the OP that going by the stats alone the Sims is stand out bad with average damage on a par with a T3 ship, a horrifying win rate and one of the worst K/D ratios in the game.


 

I'm not sure that the stats are giving us the full story.

 

The Sims compares well with the T6 Farragut (not a great ship but...), It's guns are basically the same but with an insane turn speed, the torpedoes are a small disadvantage but the Sims makes up for it with more HP and vastly superior speed and manoeuvrability.

 

The T7 Mahan has more HP than the Farragut and the questionable option of the 55kt long range torpedoes but is otherwise the same.


 

On the face of it there isn't anything obviously wrong with the Sims, at least compared to the other poorly performing USN DD at T6/7.


 

I think what's actually happening is that players without 150+ games in USN DD are buying this and finding themselves in T7 games without the skill to use that ship against T7 opponents.


 

So, if anything, all the USN DD from T6-8 need a buff.
 

Edited by Capra76

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Beta Tester
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I think what's actually happening is that players without 150+ games in USN DD are buying this and finding themselves in T7 games without the skill to use that ship against T7 opponents.

 

 

Your diagnosis cannot possibly be correct.

 

As I pointed out above, Sims was only available to buy during the CBT, so the only players who have it are Closed Beta Testers, who, on average, have been playing for much longer than the vast majority of WoWS players.

 

These CBT players can, therefore, be expected to make up the majority of tier 7-10 players of all ship types, and almost certainly to have contibuted significantly to the statistics for US DDs of tiers 4-7, all of which are significantly better than the Sims' statistics.

 

As I said, if they can't make the Sims work well, no-one can be expected to.

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Your diagnosis cannot possibly be correct.

 

As I pointed out above, Sims was only available to buy during the CBT, so the only players who have it are Closed Beta Testers, who, on average, have been playing for much longer than the vast majority of WoWS players.

 

These CBT players can, therefore, be expected to make up the majority of tier 7-10 players of all ship types, and almost certainly to have contibuted significantly to the statistics for US DDs of tiers 4-7, all of which are significantly better than the Sims' statistics.

 

As I said, if they can't make the Sims work well, no-one can be expected to.

 

 

 

 

Ok, my bad.

 

 

But I still think we're missing something, there isn't anything obvious in the ship's specs that explain its utterly appalling stats.

 

 

The T6-T8 USN DD's are s***, but I can't see a reason why the Sims is even more s***.

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Beta Tester
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But I still think we're missing something, there isn't anything obvious in the ship's specs that explain its utterly appalling stats.

 

The T6-T8 USN DD's are s***, but I can't see a reason why the Sims is even more s***.

 

I agree we're missing something, and I think only WG themselves, with their ability to Data Mine their extremely extensive and detailed player, battle and ship stats, are in a position to provide, or at least approach, an answer.

 

I think your analysis of the US Tech Tree tier 6-8 DDs is very enlightening. Maybe it would be worth starting another thread on the subject of buffing them, too.

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Alpha Tester
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That would need to be a separate thread, in the Cruisers subforum.

 

More like that would need a miracle :D

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