We got it all wrong

[Syrchalis]

I think we got it all wrong. CVs weren't as unhealthy and OP back in the day as we thought. The stupid statistics blinded us from seeing what actually was happening. Even the developers probably got their own balance wrong. After a lot of thought I can present to you now, what really happened and why the game is so broken right now.

Note this is all about T8-10.

 

The developers intended the following balance:

 

But that's not how the game worked or works. The balance was never really bad, it just worked differently. We thought it was bad because we couldn't see the above pattern.

 

First of all, let's remove carriers from the image, because their role is a bit more complex than the original picture. What we should get is cruisers countering destroyers, countering battleships, countering cruisers. But there has to be made a very important change. The arrow size!

 

The arrow size means how hard a ship class counters another. I put numbers on it to make it clearer.

 

Let's face it. If a destroyer gets revealed and cruisers are near, they can 2-shot it easily with their accurate guns and fast reload. The destroyer has little hope to torp the agile cruiser and cannot win in a gunfight. They can win the fight sure, but it's unlikely. Now a cruiser has little hope to defeat a battleship. A few good citadel hits and a cruiser can easily get oneshot by a battleship. Lastly, a destroyer should counter a battleship and while in theory this is true, as a battleship has trouble hitting the tiny destroyer and can easily get torpedoed to death we all know how little destroyers actually bother battleships in games. This is because between DDs (the front line) and BBs (the back line) are cruisers (the middle line), which just happen to counter DDs.

 

All of this balance relies mostly on the mistakes of the respective classes.

 

• A DD gets oneshot by a CA if he gets revealed.
• A CA gets oneshot by a BB if he shows his broadside.
• A BB gets oneshot by a DD if he drives in a straight line.

 

The first happens easily and there is little you can do about it. You drive your DD and suddenly a previously invisible enemy DD shows up and BAM you get a CA broadside and you're gone. A ninja torpedo works too. However you have smokescreen to compensate.

Because of DD torpedos and map boarders there are points where a CA has to turn and maybe show his broadside. This happens too and you can't do much about it, yet you can time it so the BB can't fire when you turn. Still sometimes there is just too many BBs from too many directions to avoid showing one of them your broadside. Unlike DDs you have nothing to compensate. You make a mistake, you die.

The BB one is nearly all player skill and can easily be avoided. He can only ever fail if the DD is hidden and no plane, CA or DD reveals him. With DDs being just as invisible to other DDs this does not happen much (see first point).

 

Okay, so that makes BBs the kings if we don't take CVs into consideration. Simply because DDs do not counter them as well as CAs counter DDs and those get countered even harder by BBs.

 

What CVs do, they counter those hardest that get generally countered the least. In other words - they distribute their power so that all classes are countered in the same way.

 

So all get countered by the value "4". Now you may ask - what counters carriers? Well, everyone. If any ship gets into shooting range it destroys a carrier long before it can react. A BB has 20km range and can easily 1-2shot a carrier that gets spotted. With the worst turn values and extreme visibility that does happen more than you want to believe. A CA has a lot of damage and high fire chances, combined with ok range and high speed. A DD can kill a CV by staying undetected and being extremely hard to kill for CVs (especially US ones!).

 

Now about that annoying argument "but the statistics show that carriers do so much more damage than other ships". Yeah, guess what, there is a very very simple reason for that. Let's take T10 ships.

 

A BB has 100.000-150.000 HP (since they can repair).

A CA has 40.000-60.000 HP (they can repair too).

A DD has 20.000 HP.

A CV has 60.000 HP.

 

So, scroll up again and look what counters what the most. DDs are supposed to counter BBs, but do so barely. What counters BB the hardest are - you guessed it - CVs. So to sink 1 BB the CV needs to do 100.000-150.000 damage. A BB that is using his power to shoot CAs (which they counter equally hard) is however only doing 40.000-60.000 damage. That's not even half. Just from their targets it's obvious why CVs damage NUMBERS look higher. They aren't even contributing more than other ships, they just attack the ones with the most HP.

But why do CVs win so much then? Well, BBs are - if we forget about CVs - the strongest class, since DDs fail to counter them as much as they should. Obviously the class the counters the strongest class can carry the game the best. Especially if the countered class cannot attack back. (Which is how CVs work, not saying it's good, but that's why they have such easy time carrying).

 

What is more concerning however - there is twice as many CA players than DD players in high tier. BBs are somewhere between. CVs don't even reach a third of the DD playerbase.

 

I'm not for CV damage buffs. I actually would nerf the damage. And instead go and reduce the wait times considerably, allow CVs to do more attacks per game and make them again more reliable. Right now a good BB player can completely avoid a CV attack easily. I can't even understand why BBs are so afraid of eating a few torpedos from a CV if they do considerable less damage than now with half the flooding chance even? With so many cruisers around, it takes minutes to find even an opening for an attack. And then you have to hope your target is too dumb to react.

 

[KaraMon]

Cv is the best !

 

There is so few of them in t6 games i stopped using advanced aa and use sonar on all cruisers to search toprs from one of 5 enemy dds :p

 

So only logical explanation of this post is to make dumbass players look at images, look at wall of text . Next thing they will think "cv op!" and they start playing it, failing miserably and every other player can profit . Me and my kiev like it.

 

Btw last image is about Midway , not carriers in general.

[Mindfulcrane07]

OP, you do have a lot of good points and i agree with you atleast to a certain extend so have my +1

[captain_sam]

Good post, it all makes sense.

However noone at WG will ever consider your opinion or admit they failed the balancing of the game.

 

[NoirLotus]

CV have extreme visibility ?? At mid tier, they are the most stealthy ships after DDs, and they have a good speed (save for the first ones). The only thing that help to find them is that often they are careless and make their planes return directly to ship, so you just have to follow them ...

[Eternus_Damnatio]

You base your logic on cv's being the hard counter to bb's that is fair enough. However high tier cv players manual dropping so close that cruisers stood no chance and even dd's struggled to evade was just plain wrong.

And still when I see cv players at high tiers they are getting good kills and damage. Had my Tirpitz annihilated yesterday by 2 tb sqns and 2 db sqns the tb's took 3/4 of my health then one db sqn hit setting 3 fires cv player kept back the 2nd db sqn waiting until I had used my damage control then bam another db drop took 12k health and set 4 fires. But hey cv's are over nerfed now eh. Oh and that was the first few minutes of the game the only shot I got off was just before the flames killed me.

I am not going to sit here and say that they could not make the balance better in other ways but it seems cv players think they should be able to waltz into the middle of a fleet and torp/db whoever they want at will and lose next to no planes while doing it.

How would it be fair if a cruisers had 0 chance to avoid incoming fire or a dd 0 chance of escaping the clutches of a cruiser. The fact is cruiser players struggle not because they suck or bb's are op but because they expose their broadsides to bb's way too often and sail in straight lines while doing so. Same thing goes for them whiners that think dd's need nerfing don't sail in a straight line all the time is the response they get same logic applies.

Most of the so called lack of balance comes from players but there are things that needed addressing like manual drop and high tier planes being almost invulnerable cruisers when well angled should be harder to kill by bb's Shimekaze has too many torps 12 would be enough while Hatsuharu doesn't have enough should have 9.

And at this moment I actually believe it is the low tier cv's that need some love they constantly run out of planes too quickly and there is a lack of balance when it comes to US vs IJN with one side outperforming the other most of the time. 

[namib_digger]

No matter whether WG will consider it or not - Syrchalis is offering a description of T8 - 10 battles and game mechanics as they are - not as they maybe. I am still on my way to Tiers VII, struggling with my Ryujo and Bogue to have good games. Remembering the time before CVs were nerfed that hard (Hosho...) and seeing how it is like now it seems WG has simply overcompensated in general. Thats what they do quite often but i have hope that they will re-rebalance it. 

It seems WG was quite unlucky when releasing the game prematurly (my opinion) in september and are now struggling to get the proper balance

Syrchalis made the very good point (and to me it seems applicable to mid tiers as well) that players do not play as WG/DEVs intended the ship classes to be played. Interestingly the heaviest defeats i suffer are happening when the enemies are working team-oriented as intended! Their DDs countering our BBs, their CAs counering our DDs and their BBs counter our CAs - it may be that victories on my side work similarly but i cant tell for sure.

What i am saying is: a team can easyly win when the ships play their roles accordingly - the issue is that most players simply dont consider their roles. I wonder if the roles are different as described by OP or if players simply play ignoring the roles that were intended?

 

 

[Blue_Bug]

I never had any trouble with CV's doing a lot of damage.  But I see the future role of a CV differently. The CV could be a very good enforcer of teamplay. At this point tier 9 and 10 games aren't any fun (Just plain boring). Most BB's at this tier play very defensive and CA's can't do anything without the support of the BB's, so they have to play defensive too.

 

I would like to see the BB's a bit more depended on the CA's. So I would buff the AAA of the CA at tier 9/10. Futher on I would make the CV an even more hard counter of the BB and less counter of the CA and DD.  So the lonely BB's should be the primary target of the CV. BB's should have more reason to apreciate the CA's at high tier.

 

 

 

 

 

[WhoopieMonster]

This game really isn't as straight forward as your diagram makes out. I don't think you can look at the CV v BB relationship in isolation, nor the DD v BB relationship. By buffing/nerfing either of those relationships you will effect how that class interacts with the other classes in the game.

 

I think lowering the damage but increasing the amount of attacks would make life easier for BB players, but much harder for DDs and CAs. If you attack a CA or a DD and miss completely, it is currently quite a costly decision in terms of time. Make your change and all of a sudden that choice doesn't actually matter so much as the turn around time is much quicker.

 

I have only got experiance of up to T8 BB play. But it is very clear as you progress, players become much more aware. At T6 & 7 I could reliably find a CA sailing broadside and delete him in a volley or two. Playing vs T8/9/10 players who rarely sail in a straight line and often engage at 15km+ it is very hard to hit them. I've had games that ended in stalemate with little damage done to either side, I'm aware this is partly the fault of repair costs being extreme. But I don't think CV are the only class that, at high tiers, will find it hard to hit targets.  

 

Edit: Leluk06, there is no one class at high tiers that does its job properly. BBs push, and then complain they have no DD screens and CA protecting them. CAs protect BBs and then complain they don't push. DDs screen then complain they have no support. CVs provide air cover and then complain they are not protected by CAs.. Welcome to high tiers where the only person ever doing what their class should be is you.

 

Like I said earlier any change you make to a class needs to be done so in consideration with all the other classes in the game.

 

Buff TB torp speed to make it easier to hit BBs so they need better air cover? Then it becomes easier to hit all other classes.

 

Reduce BB rudder shift so they can't avoid torps? Then they can't avoid cannon fire, islands, otherships as easily so they will take more overall damage.

[Johnny_Phate]

You base your logic on cv's being the hard counter to bb's that is fair enough. However high tier cv players manual dropping so close that cruisers stood no chance and even dd's struggled to evade was just plain wrong.

And still when I see cv players at high tiers they are getting good kills and damage. Had my Tirpitz annihilated yesterday by 2 db sqns and 2 db sqns the tb's took 3/4 of my health then one db sqn hit setting 3 fires cv player kept back the 2nd db sqn waiting until I had used my damage control then bam another db drop took 12k health and set 4 fires. But hey cv's are over nerfed now eh. Oh and that was the first few minutes of the game the only shot I got off was just before the flames killed me.

I am not going to sit here and say that they could not make the balance better in other ways but it seems cv players think they should be able to waltz into the middle of a fleet and torp/db whoever they want at will and lose next to no planes while doing it.

How would it be fair if a cruisers had 0 chance to avoid incoming fire or a dd 0 chance of escaping the clutches of a cruiser. The fact is cruiser players struggle not because they suck so bad but because they expose their broadsides to bb's way too often and sail in straight lines while doing so. Same thing goes for them whiners that think dd's need nerfing don't sail in a straight line all the time is the response they get same logic applies.

Most of the so called lack of balance comes from players but there are things that needed addressing like manual drop and high tier planes being almost invulnerable cruisers when well angled should be harder to kill by bb's Shimekaze has too many torps 12 would be enough while Hatsuharu doesn't have enough should have 9.

And at this moment I actually believe it is the low tier cv's that need some love they constantly run out of planes too quickly and there is a lack of balance when it comes to US vs IJN with one side outperforming the other most of the time. 

 

This is true. Just go watch some old replays from good CV players murdering DDs as priority targets, then casually wiping cruisers that messed with their aim before proceeding to farm DMG on battleships while praying that someone on their team died so they dont win on points too early... 

[Sub_Eleven]

So, ship launched torpedoes need more damage to counter bb's. I agree. >:3

 

Also, cv drivers are more likely to sink destroyers, as it takes alot less damage to sink one, and awards the same experience as sinking a bb with loads of hitpoints.

[Johnny_Phate]

So, ship launched torpedoes need more damage to counter bb's. I agree. >:3

 

Also, cv drivers are more likely to sink destroyers, as it takes alot less damage to sink one, and awards the same experience as sinking a bb with loads of hitpoints.

 

everything without repair flooding to death not enough?

[Ishiro32]

 

everything without repair flooding to death not enough?

 

nerfed hard in the last patch. Flooding is unreliable, even from US. Also it was never doing enough damage on high tier.

[Kenliero]

CV have extreme visibility ?? At mid tier, they are the most stealthy ships after DDs, and they have a good speed (save for the first ones). The only thing that help to find them is that often they are careless and make their planes return directly to ship, so you just have to follow them ...

Yes, but already in tier 8 Lexi has 17,5km detectionrange, which gets you killed easily when battleships easily shoot past 20km

[Syrchalis]

To answer some posts:

 

IJN CVs were good at sinking DDs, this has changed considerably. Their torps were 42knts fast, now they are 35knts slow - this is the difference between hitting a DD and it having an easy time driving away and dodging even a cross pattern.

Add to that the section changes. DDs got 130% damage from torpedos if hit in the middle, so a 7000 dmg torpedo could still oneshot a DD at T6-7 because of this bonus. This bonus is gone now, so you need 2-3 torpedos.

 

This made DDs insanely hard to kill with IJN and USN CVs compared to before.

 

US CVs have high visibility in their mid tiers (which is T6-8... CV start at T4, so mid tier for CV is a bit different than for other ships) Lexington has worst visibility of all ships. Essex has surprisingly good one and Midway is horrible again.
 To offset the strong AA of US CVs IJN have rather good concealment, especially at lower tiers. It has been nerfed considerably though.

So yes, spotting a CV isn't easy in low tiers, but it gets easier and easier and for T8-10 it's really easy. Midway can be seen from 16km (plane AND ship).

 

I know my diagram isn't perfect. It's not meant to be. A complex game cannot be explained so easily. E.g. I put a "2" for how CVs counter DDs. This is not because a CV can really hurt a DD. In their current state they can't. But they reveal them. That's an important detail, but it's not relevant for the bigger picture right now.

 

WG needs to think about how to make CVs fun to play first, then think how to balance them. Even if too weak, if they are fun people will play them more already.

The reason they aren't fun:

• You have so little moments of actual "fun" and so much waiting
• Cruiser AA ability - it's fine there is a counter and stuff, but the implementation is just annoying as heck. You have to approach a ship, take losses just for a cruiser 7km far away to press one button and all your tactics and strategy go to crap because of how powerful it is. And then you have to wait 4 minutes to try again. Not just that, you probably lost half your planes in reserve too (in lower tiers). The only CV that can lose planes without any worry is Midway, because you can't even start and kill so many planes to run out.
• Giant drop circle - the nerf was completely wrong IMO. A nerf was needed, but making you unable to hit anything that turns faster than a BB and allowing BBs to dodge you nearly completely if they react before torps are in the water made CV unreliable and the 4 minute cooldown on attack outrageous. It also feels horribly inaccurate and tedious to use.

 

I think the game would be a lot better if you could easily land a lot of torps in BBs like when CVs were strong, but the torpedos do MUCH less damage, so the BB isn't fucked without a chance to do something about it. This would allow CVs to attack the target your team needs attacked the most (you can always ask them).

In other words

• weaker attacks
• more attacks
• more reliable attacks

So how is this better? If you attack a BB 3-4 times in a short time with weaker attacks, it has time to turn, get a CA to protect it. If you just attack once with a really strong attack (like right now) it just dies instantly, with no chance for teamwork to happen. Because this was strong, WG made the attacks unreliable as hell and now CV feels like gambling. Either your 3-5 attacks per game hit or they miss. If you're lucky/unlucky is a huge factor.

 

This would automatically fix the cruiser AA ability too, because right now if they use the paid version they can keep a giant area completely save from your attacks. Back when there were 2 CVs per side it was not a problem, but now it's just broken. With many weak attacks you would miss some because of the ability, but some could go through. Depending on how many ships there are of course. If they stay close and protect each other well (with maybe 2-3 cruisers) you would still not be able to attack. But teamwork needs to be rewarded, right?

 

 

 

You base your logic on cv's being the hard counter to bb's that is fair enough. However high tier cv players manual dropping so close that cruisers stood no chance and even dd's struggled to evade was just plain wrong.

And still when I see cv players at high tiers they are getting good kills and damage. Had my Tirpitz annihilated yesterday by 2 tb sqns and 2 db sqns the tb's took 3/4 of my health then one db sqn hit setting 3 fires cv player kept back the 2nd db sqn waiting until I had used my damage control then bam another db drop took 12k health and set 4 fires. But hey cv's are over nerfed now eh. Oh and that was the first few minutes of the game the only shot I got off was just before the flames killed me.

I am not going to sit here and say that they could not make the balance better in other ways but it seems cv players think they should be able to waltz into the middle of a fleet and torp/db whoever they want at will and lose next to no planes while doing it.

How would it be fair if a cruisers had 0 chance to avoid incoming fire or a dd 0 chance of escaping the clutches of a cruiser. The fact is cruiser players struggle not because they suck or bb's are op but because they expose their broadsides to bb's way too often and sail in straight lines while doing so. Same thing goes for them whiners that think dd's need nerfing don't sail in a straight line all the time is the response they get same logic applies.

Most of the so called lack of balance comes from players but there are things that needed addressing like manual drop and high tier planes being almost invulnerable cruisers when well angled should be harder to kill by bb's Shimekaze has too many torps 12 would be enough while Hatsuharu doesn't have enough should have 9.

And at this moment I actually believe it is the low tier cv's that need some love they constantly run out of planes too quickly and there is a lack of balance when it comes to US vs IJN with one side outperforming the other most of the time. 

 

As for this wall of text - you did it wrong. If a CV can nuke 3/4th of your HP as tirpitz you didn't dodge properly. If he can circle you with DBs until you used repair you were alone. Aka perfect conditions for a CV. A shimakaze in perfect conditions can nuke 2 Yamatos from 100% to 0%. Every 3 minutes. CV can't do that ever.

Also the only CVs that can do this much damage with TBs are Essex and Midway, so you were facing at least 1 tier higher ships.  Please don't use worst case scenarios that were caused by mistakes on your side against higher tier ships to explain how "good CVs still are".

Plus, you are apparently again in this way of thinking of the BB mafia. You are a BB, so sinking early means whoever sunk you is broken OP. If you oneshot a cruiser right at the start because he exposed his broadside or a CA oneshots a DD that was revealed and didn't smoke, that's all fine and fair, but if you travel alone as T8 BB against an Essex/Midway you can't possibly die if he throws all he has at you? Really?

 

[rafparis]

 Plus, you are apparently again in this way of thinking of the BB mafia. You are a BB, so sinking early means whoever sunk you is broken OP. If you oneshot a cruiser right at the start because he exposed his broadside or a CA oneshots a DD that was revealed and didn't smoke, that's all fine and fair, but if you travel alone as T8 BB against an Essex/Midway you can't possibly die if he throws all he has at you? Really?

 

so much this... High tier BBs are not hard countered enough. If you play bad, you should die fast.

[WhoopieMonster]

Again syrchalis, making it easier to hit a BB with a torpedo bomber will in turn make it easier for you to hit CAs, DDs and other CVs. I don't think you are taking this into consideration. You cannot look at CV vs BB in isolation because it is so very rarely a CV vs BB. Any change to any class, hard counter or not will have an impact to how said class interacts with every other class in the game. I can only speak from what I have seen, and in my experiance a badly sailed BB will get deleted just as quickly as a poorly sailed CA. Bad players stick out in high tier games and are often the first to die regardless of class, excluding CVs.

[rafparis]

Again syrchalis, making it easier to hit a BB with a torpedo bomber will in turn make it easier for you to hit CAs, DDs and other CVs. I don't think you are taking this into consideration. You cannot look at CV vs BB in isolation because it is so very rarely a CV vs BB. Any change to any class, hard counter or not will have an impact to how said class interacts with every other class in the game. I can only speak from what I have seen, and in my experiance a badly sailed BB will get deleted just as quickly as a poorly sailed CA. Bad players stick out in high tier games and are often the first to die regardless of class, excluding CVs.

 

bad BB play is much more forgivable than bad CA/DD play especially at higher tier.

[OverPenokio]

+1 OP, allthough by far not all was new to me and since I am a DD player all the way I have noticed that the main problems CV's are for me is their spotting skills so CAs can shoot at me. BBs don't really are a huge problem also atm. The main thread to DDs is a combination of the CV scouting and CA's. So it is a combination that kills me. 

Again, good points overall. Thanks.

 

Cheers, Gilles.

 

[allufewig]

I agree on some points. Not so much on others. And some are just pure comedy (CVs were not really OP back then. Hah, nice one!)

 

Point still is CVs counter BBs and DDs incredibly hard. The latter by just sending planes over the maps. The recent rise of DDs is surely influenced by the decline of carriers. (The other main factor being BBs simply outperforming cruisers)
 

Imho DDs are countered as hard as BBs by the carriers. The problem? It doesnt work the other way round! Not even Close. Try chasing a spotted carrier in your IJN DD. Wont work. Try gunning down a T7+ CV in your gun-DD. Wont work until the very end of the game unless then youre screwed. It would take 2 minutes of continuous fire anyway. BBs twoshotting CVs with their extremely high health? Seriously, it doesnt work often. Again, until it is lategame the situation doesnt usually even arise.
 

Carriers have all the survival. And if we had stats about what class actually kills the most carriers it would be other carriers or maybe CL/CAs. The DD-CV and BB-CV-relation is a bit broken, with BBs and DDs being on the receiving ends for the overwhelmingly largest part of a game. 
 

Besides, carriers seem rather balanced to me since 4.1 (bar Midway and Essex maybe). The Problem might be another one now: Theyre not fun anymore, now that the steamrolling of the enemy doesnt work as smoothly anymore. This is something WG should have an eye on, regardless of the state of "balancing according to numbers".

[Ascender]

Good topic. I do wish to add though that each class is also excessively effective at countering itself, with exception of Battleships which often require multiple very well placed volleys to actually kill one another so they were always destined to have less damage but typically more impactful damage as more of their damage would be dealt to cruisers since they provide better rewards and are typically found at shorter ranges. As an avid USN DD captain I can tell you I can end a game with barely any damage done but end up at the top of the scoreboard because all of this damage was done to other DDs.

[OVanBruce]

I would like to see the BB's a bit more depended on the CA's. So I would buff the AAA of the CA at tier 9/10. Futher on I would make the CV an even more hard counter of the BB and less counter of the CA and DD.  So the lonely BB's should be the primary target of the CV. BB's should have more reason to apreciate the CA's at high tier.

 

Gosh, are you me? 

 

This is what I and other players who've sadly left this game were discussing some months ago. CVs were too much of a counter for all classes so something had to be done to ensure CAs and DDs were unattractive targets while making a BB an attractive prey even with cover.

 

Instead now is so easy to minimize damage from a carrier.  I precisely spent this morning playing with Lexington and it's now so dull and boring.

[Syrchalis]

Again syrchalis, making it easier to hit a BB with a torpedo bomber will in turn make it easier for you to hit CAs, DDs and other CVs. I don't think you are taking this into consideration. You cannot look at CV vs BB in isolation because it is so very rarely a CV vs BB. Any change to any class, hard counter or not will have an impact to how said class interacts with every other class in the game. I can only speak from what I have seen, and in my experiance a badly sailed BB will get deleted just as quickly as a poorly sailed CA. Bad players stick out in high tier games and are often the first to die regardless of class, excluding CVs.

 

Yes I'm aware of that. But I can promise you that hitting a DD or CA is still a lot harder than a BB. It was back then. The mid section damage nerf to DDs already made them A LOT more difficult to kill as CV. And CAs are a horrible target due to AA ability. Also there is nothing stopping WG from making CV torpedos deal less damage to smaller ships, if it's a huge issue.

 

The thing is, since CV can attack what they want, they will attack the biggest threat to the team, which are BBs. They always were. And now more than ever.

 

As for spotting DDs - Russian DDs have very tiny plane spotting distances, surely WGs way to experiement with that. It's something I've been suggesting months ago. If you make the plane spotting distance 2-3km small, it's very hard to "accidently" reveal a DD.

 

If one wants to count DD spotting for CV balance two things must happen.

1. It has to give a reward
2. DDs need to be buffed, so they are actually worth spotting

[Kenliero]

One thing that people don't think, is that since every ship has their "personal fighter". Spotting with fighters is not possible anymore. You can not send your bombers to Tirpitz and leave fighters to spot DD. You must have your bombers escorted 100% of the time simply to counter these "personal fighters', leaving no DD spotters. Not only that, but the "bug" that you can not attack that personal fighter until the liftoff sequence is finished, is really annoying, because now, if you time the liftoff of your personal fighter, you can counter torpedoattack 100% of the time, and there is nothing carrierplayer can do about it, because he can not attack this personal fighter, until it is too late and your torpedoattack is already screwed, because of the large attack cone, caused by this personal fighter...

[Vogel]

 

I'm not for CV damage buffs. I actually would nerf the damage. And instead go and reduce the wait times considerably, allow CVs to do more attacks per game and make them again more reliable. Right now a good BB player can completely avoid a CV attack easily. I can't even understand why BBs are so afraid of eating a few torpedos from a CV if they do considerable less damage than now with half the flooding chance even? With so many cruisers around, it takes minutes to find even an opening for an attack. And then you have to hope your target is too dumb to react.

 

 

You would *gasp* make CVs a support class? What genius intellect 

 

They should have been that way from the start, instead of the primary damage dealer that we had earlier. And if DDs should be more common at high tiers, then either the number of plane squadrons flying around has to be deceased, or air spotting range for DDs need to be toned down.