Real problem caused by ninja changes to AP

[WWladCZ]

Cruisers take decent hits to middle of the ship and it either overpens or bounces. Also instances of 8 landed hits doing no damage is much more common now than ever. This would be perfectly fine if accuracy as you get to closer ranges would be better (max range(21km-15kkm) = bad dispersion all over the place, middle(15km-10km) = less but still aperent, minimum(7-5km)= little to no dispersion) but RNG heavily screws with your shots even at closest ranges. This makes BBs the most frustrating thing to drive around in you are slow and big target that has to pray to RNG for good shots and having to pay for every mistake with 30 seconds of reload. Cruisers and DDs can torp you or HE spam you to death while you are reloading and you don't really have counterplay to this since you don't really hit that hard and mostly don't even hit shells that are suposed to be really easy.

So right now Cruisers can play pretty agressive and not having to worry about BBs close range because they can't get citadeled and high damaging salvos are extremely hard to achieve due the RNG screwing up accuracy or just overpening making the landed shells not really that potent. Not even mentioning retarded secondaries which are firing everywhere around the target while it si extremely close to them.

[MrDane]

Lately it seems that either you hit for 80-90% of the cruisers health or for 0.01%. I am guessing heavy RnG to even up the skill gap.

[Admiral_noodle]

At close range they can be citadelled. I did it this morning

0.5.1 fixed that.

But there are more overpens, deliberately, although my Nurnberg keeps happily dying to BBs. As does Murmansk. It's extremely risky to turn side on to a bb, just marginally less risky than before. The debate is probably about the word "marginally".

 

mid tier BBs have the problem at medium range. Dispersion is dominant for these BBs at these kind of ranges. Citadels are unreliable and instead of "ok" damage you'll get nothing... At close range citadels become reliable again. 

[WWladCZ]

Lately it seems that either you hit for 80-90% of the cruisers health or for 0.01%. I am guessing heavy RnG to even up the skill gap.

 

Exactly you are left at mercy of RNG it's as you say total nukedown or almost no damage.

[kamuka]

l2p

[SailingDutchy]

l2p

 

most dumb comment ever 

[Vaderan]

I wonder how you can complain about RNG in a skill based game... *sarcasm off*.

 

I feel you pain, but discussions about frustrating RNG effects, especially on places where nothing but skill should be the deciding factor, but WG wants it that way.

The irony of a HUUUGE RNG factor in a skill-based game (WG´s favourite argument to nerf the secondary batteries into oblivion) on the most skill-important aspect is obvious and ridiculous, but "working as intended"...

 

It might be justified in a game, where the mechanics are all or nothing (citadell or nothing), but since there are so many other aspects which still could ruin a perfectly aimed shot, the massive RNG impact is just too much... but hey, nothing new on this one, WG just constantly keeps ignoring it...

[Admiral_noodle]

I like RNG. It adds to the realism.

 

BUT. And it's a big but. If the armour model has now been fixed and AP is working as it should, dispersion and RNG was balanced *before* the armour fix when spamming a cruiser with AP would accidentally get citadels when it shouldn't have.

 

I do hope WG are looking at balance now. In my opinion RNG at medium range needs a bit of a tweak for mid tier BBs (maybe high tier, but maybe not). 50% luck 50% skill was OK in "old AP" world. Now in certain circumstances it feels like 80% luck. I think the RNG could be tweaked so that wacky max dispersion isn't as likely. Not a huge change but a rebalancing.

 

 

Otherwise Wyoming and New York are useless. New Mexico might be ok but Fuso is struggling too.

[kamuka]

Wyoming is the third highest damage T4 ship .... yeah right .. useless...

 

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20151114ea/average_ship.html#all

 

Good BB players have absolutely no problems killing cruisers and it really shows on higher ranks.

 

As I said: l2p

[WWladCZ]

I like RNG. It adds to the realism.

 

BUT. And it's a big but. If the armour model has now been fixed and AP is working as it should, dispersion and RNG was balanced *before* the armour fix when spamming a cruiser with AP would accidentally get citadels when it shouldn't have.

 

I do hope WG are looking at balance now. In my opinion RNG at medium range needs a bit of a tweak for mid tier BBs (maybe high tier, but maybe not). 50% luck 50% skill was OK in "old AP" world. Now in certain circumstances it feels like 80% luck. I think the RNG could be tweaked so that wacky max dispersion isn't as likely. Not a huge change but a rebalancing.

 

 

Otherwise Wyoming and New York are useless. New Mexico might be ok but Fuso is struggling too.

 

This is exactly what I mean! Couldn't have wrote it better myself!

[Whatever08152]

Was playing Fuso today and oneshotted at least 5 cruisers and scored plenty of citadels every game

 

Cant agree with you - BBs are as powerfull as ever

[mtm78]

I got Imperator after the AP change, and I have just below 60k dmg with a tier 4 BB. I seen the 9 hit zero damage scenario, but I also insta-gibbed many cruisers in return. 

 

If BB's are weak now, I wonder how much dmg I would have done before the AP change 

[SomeoneYouKnow2]

I feel the opposite. BBs have never been as powerful as they are right now. I'm playing the Arkansas alot lately and abusing the heck out of it one-shotting cruisers from max range sometimes. I can only imagine what I would do in the Imperator...

 

Likewise it's really no different with the NM/Fuso. All these ships are like shotguns. Dispersion doesn't matter much when you have 12 barrels and the targets are made of paper.

[mtm78]

I feel the opposite. BBs have never been as powerful as they are right now. I'm playing the Arkansas alot lately and abusing the heck out of it one-shotting cruisers from max range sometimes. I can only imagine what I would do in the Imperator...

 

Likewise it's really no different with the NM/Fuso. All these ships are like shotguns. Dispersion doesn't matter much when you have 12 barrels and the targets are made of paper.

 

Since you do more with Arkensaus then I do with Impregnator, I would be very very scared if you got an Impregnator ( and where on the enemy team ) 

[WWladCZ]

I feel the opposite. BBs have never been as powerful as they are right now. I'm playing the Arkansas alot lately and abusing the heck out of it one-shotting cruisers from max range sometimes. I can only imagine what I would do in the Imperator...

 

Likewise it's really no different with the NM/Fuso. All these ships are like shotguns. Dispersion doesn't matter much when you have 12 barrels and the targets are made of paper.

 

Right now it is more abou quantity of shots rather than quality. NM, NY, Wyo, Imperator, Fuso will be always good due the sheer number of shells you can put out. But Ships who rely more on hitting with superhigh caliber guns suffer alot. Like North Carolina for example the shells are inaccurate and damage doesn't really make up for it.

[Blue_Bug]

On close range you should shoot CA's just below the watherline, or at an angle.  In other cases you have a chance that it will over penetrate. 

 

[kamuka]

Yeah, poor NC .. also only the third highest damage ship on its tier...

[MrB0mbast1c]

IMHO AP balance is just right now... erm ARMOR seems to be working now.

[Admiral_noodle]

Don't get me wrong. BBs aren't weak! They just feel a bit more random that they did before. Before they were TOO powerful and would reliably annihilate a cruiser side on at medium range.

 

Now it's a little to binary. Either you annihilate the cruiser or do 1-2k damage in over pens. Balance wise and stat wise that's "better" but it would be nicer to have a bit more consistency when cruisers close. Otherwise it feels a bit disappointing when you get 5 hits for virtually nothing, but other times you see the same cruiser vanish instantly.

 

More playing for me needed to see if it's just that I'm aiming wrong now. And maybe I am looking back at 0.5.3 with rose tinted glasses

[ilhilh]

I think on balance BB performance is about where it was pre 0.5.1 - sure there are a lot of 1300 dmg over pens and I do question whether as many of these should be able to hit the ship's armour, bounce off the citadel and then punch through the far side without doing anything but I'm not a ballistics expert so perhaps it would have been common?  But although I don't see too many mid-damage hits it is as easy as ever to citadel cruisers even if it takes 3 salvos... but it always used to be like that anyway!

[GulvkluderGuld]

Lately it seems that either you hit for 80-90% of the cruisers health or for 0.01%. I am guessing heavy RnG to even up the skill gap.

 

Agree with this. And range doesnt seem to matter much.

 

After 5.1.1 I seem to either get multiple cit-pens and completely oneshotting the CA or just nothing. 

Had a ranked game with 2 kills and 5 cit-pens out of 6 shots hitting - none of them closer than 12 kms.

Overall I do find cit-pens to be more reliable if you know where to shoot. 

[Boo7n3ck]

Have to totally agree, 17 shots from a nagato into a Nurnberg (I even changed targets after each salvo as thought yip that's him done only to find he was still alive ), after he and another 2 cruisers he spammed me to death, I said in open chat "Nurnberg your one lucky sod, RNG proper screwed me there"

[Adwaenyth]

With 410mm shells you actually could have ovepenetrated him when he did show you his side. I've found 203/210mm much more reliable in scoring citadel hits on lightly armoured CAs than BB guns - especially at long range.

[mrak1979]

Trouble is btw chair and keyboard:-)

[Kartoffelmos]

So right now Cruisers can play pretty agressive and not having to worry about BBs close range because they can't get citadeled and high damaging salvos are extremely hard to achieve due the RNG screwing up accuracy or just overpening making the landed shells not really that potent. Not even mentioning retarded secondaries which are firing everywhere around the target while it si extremely close to them.

 

At lower tiers, possibly. At higher tiers, no.

What you call "AP ninja nerf" was actually a bug-fix where shells that bounced (or rather, should have bounced) off the citadel roof would normally deal full damage. Now, the shells will behave like they should and you need to hit the actual citadel in order to deal massive damage. Well, that or just simply avoid overpenetrating shots.

 

So yeah, I don't really see the issue. It's not like battleships are underperforming or anything...