t10 CVs absent for MM

[viceadmiral123]

CV game is same tier enforced MM.

The CV class has become unpopular after recent updates.

It's not uncommon to be waiting for a game for >10m even in prime time.

Fix please.

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

it will not be fixed , i also leaved my haku and skillway no point play with such low income and high repair price ,and yeah 10 min + que time is normal now , its another reason not play

[Kirasa]

CV game is same tier enforced MM.

The CV class has become unpopular after recent updates.

It's not uncommon to be waiting for a game for >10m even in prime time.

Fix please.

 

People wanted CVs nerfed. They got their wish, and have now to live with that decision.

[TomBombardil]

Well the only patch where cv was playable or maby even a little op (just a tiny bit op) was 3.0.x Afther that CV got nerft in to oblivion (or counters to CV got better and easyer, "realy a fight scout that scrables AND kills"). it actaly hurts to have a CV on your team. for more reasons than just the shipslot.

 

The result is mass Yamato's in X-tier.

 

Not to mention the last nerf of no flooding. now even the change of forcing a (flood) repair and hope for a fire folow up is gone.

The change of achieving one or the other is now almost 0.

 

One lone BB with a little skill can kill most of your planes, doge some torps and have a 50/50 of flooding for the 1 or 2 torps that might hit. and than you need the DB to succseed as well? Afther the repair? the change of that (even if he is still alone) is small. but how long will a Targeted BB stay alone afther the first strike?

 

As a CV player. CV are not viable. Hench BB Rule the seas.

 

Wargameing will probably not change this becouse BB are ther posterboy. Plus they want no skill game, so everyone will play and the make money off numbers instead of a well balance game, with dedicated players.

[GulvkluderGuld]

I dont know,this game sounds like the wet dream of any destroyer captain ever born? 

Kinda feeling sorry for all the CV players out there. 
Gonna respec my Colorado away from full AA suite soon due to never having planes to kill.

 

Oh, and start playing my destroyers more !

[viceadmiral123]

Yes, destroyers are becoming more popular now, because of less planes and more score multiplier.

I still play CV, I enjoy it, I win the game for my team. There is just the wait time in MM.

 

And with these league things, even some players that have t10 CVs are absent now.

[IamTroublemaker]

it will not be fixed , i also leaved my haku and skillway no point play with such low income and high repair price ,and yeah 10 min + que time is normal now , its another reason not play

 

Welcome to every other high tier reality?

 

From what I've seen, T10 (& T9) carriers are more than fine. The fact that they were really OP (and you cannot deny it) in both damage, credit and xp gain and then got fixed! To be at least approximately equal to other classes.

A good BB captain cannot avoid torps from a good CV captain, a good CA captain cannot avoid torps from a good CV captain, even a high tier DD cannot avoid torps from a good CV captain. I think that says enough.

 

I've seen some people moan about carriers on this forum, and still play them and still be on top of their respective teams. I got bashed to abyss a few days ago both in my Amagi and Iowa by an Essex and Hakuryu, our whole team actually...

 

Yes, there are still some problems like that plane landing, but those are just (in my eyes) minor problems

 

 

[Fatal_Thoughts]

I have no problem with current strength of cvs, but that fighter circling and landing has to be fixed as its unequal in its effect, it means jap carriers (having more squadrons) are just floating car parks now...

[Grimmblut]

That was the setup I had during my last match with my Midway. Since my CAs covered me while the enemy Hakuryu was not covered, I eventually managed to sink her. Not much to do of course versus those CAs, so it was my only kill. We won the match, my costs amounted to 390k while my income was 320k, leaving me with 70k Credits in the red although we won, although I had a kill and over 100k dmg and although I have a premium account. Playing T10 ships, not just CVs, is not worth it. 

 

 

[Syrchalis]

 

Welcome to every other high tier reality?

 

From what I've seen, T10 (& T9) carriers are more than fine. The fact that they were really OP (and you cannot deny it) in both damage, credit and xp gain and then got fixed! To be at least approximately equal to other classes.

A good BB captain cannot avoid torps from a good CV captain, a good CA captain cannot avoid torps from a good CV captain, even a high tier DD cannot avoid torps from a good CV captain. I think that says enough.

 

I've seen some people moan about carriers on this forum, and still play them and still be on top of their respective teams. I got bashed to abyss a few days ago both in my Amagi and Iowa by an Essex and Hakuryu, our whole team actually...

 

Yes, there are still some problems like that plane landing, but those are just (in my eyes) minor problems

CV income is super low now because its really hard to cap with them but you still have 350.000 repair cost at T10 which is nearly twice as much as any other class.

 

If they want to make all ship classes similar they can start by fixing that. Also CVs cost the most to buy.

[kfa]

CV income is super low now because its really hard to cap with them but you still have 350.000 repair cost at T10 which is nearly twice as much as any other class.

 

If they want to make all ship classes similar they can start by fixing that. Also CVs cost the most to buy.

 

Thats not really true, CVs cost roughly the same as any other ships (20-21M credits) and they have the same repair price as well. My Yamato has a repair of 260k + ammo, it can be quite easiliy 350k at the end. Same for destroyers, topredo spamming is costly.

 

But there is 1 thing i dont like. I am about to buy my Hakuryu and it has 5 freakin modules to unlock, which is like 100.000 more xp to grind and a lot of million credits to buy. It doesnt feel like a proper T10 ship, reward of my efforts...

[viceadmiral123]

To sum it up: if you take some damage with yout t10 CV it's almost impossible to get a positive credit balance in the end of the match. Non-premium successful games award ~250k credits without getting super-efficient drops. Not enough to offset costs of repairs.

[Meneleus]

CV income is super low now because its really hard to cap with them but you still have 350.000 repair cost at T10 which is nearly twice as much as any other class.

 

If they want to make all ship classes similar they can start by fixing that. Also CVs cost the most to buy.

 

To sum it up: if you take some damage with yout t10 CV it's almost impossible to get a positive credit balance in the end of the match. Non-premium successful games award ~250k credits without getting super-efficient drops. Not enough to offset costs of repairs.

 

Did WG not state that playing T10 ships should be cost ineffective? Judging from your reactions it seems you did not experience this problem, meaning something was not working as intended. Make no mistake, a T10 ship is a trophy ship and I can understand people would like to use it regularly.

 

Would you not agree however that the playing field should be as fair as possible? It just appears you totally disregard other T10 players who suffered at the hands, or rather torpedoes, of your aircraft. Where is your concern for their repair bills and consequently their entertainment?

 

I think that, with games like this, the developer is continuously looking for equilibrium. I just have the impression they have not found it yet with carriers and that they are still working on it.

 

Cheers, M

[viceadmiral123]

t10 should not be losing money every game. Sorry for your gloomy visions of how the game economy should work. The current course of "nerf carriers until newbie premium t8 players in t10 games don't have to l2p" is hilarious. I bet people will keep crying about carriers as long as they in the game.

[gorgutzer]

Rigged matchmaking is crap, waiting queues must finish, if thye want to balance cvs balance the teams and put more ships in the team with better cvs.

[Meneleus]

t10 should not be losing money every game. Sorry for your gloomy visions of how the game economy should work. The current course of "nerf carriers until newbie premium t8 players in t10 games don't have to l2p" is hilarious. I bet people will keep crying about carriers as long as they in the game.

 

You don't have to be sorry for me, it is the vision of WG, not mine, tough I understand why they desire to implement it.

 

As for the nerfing of carriers I am not a proponent of that practice per se. The apparent reduction in money gained per match seems legitimate though and does not directly affect gameplay. Profts need to be consistent with the rest of the field would you not agree? And truly, do you think all critique comes from new players using T8 premium ships they do not understand how to use?

 

I restate my question:

Would you not agree however that the playing field should be as fair as possible? It just appears you totally disregard other T10 players who suffered at the hands, or rather torpedoes, of your aircraft. Where is your concern for their repair bills and consequently their entertainment?

 

I think it is a fair thing to ask.

 

Rigged matchmaking is crap, waiting queues must finish, if thye want to balance cvs balance the teams and put more ships in the team with better cvs.

 

I don't think the MM is a lot of fun either for carriers. I sold mine and am not playing them because of that.

 

Cheers, M

 

[Eternus_Damnatio]

Carriers seem balanced now good players still get good damage. Seems the problem is economy based which seem to be especially harsh on cv's.

I am all for the high tier economy being addressed it definitely needs tweaking.

[Grimmblut]

To sum up a few reasons why there are way fewer CVs in high-tier matches:

 

• They become more and more cost inefficient at hier tiers
• You can easily get into a T10 match with your T8 CV. The T8, T9 and T10 AA will shred your planes though and all you can do is trying to "hunt" DDs, where "hunt" at this level difference is more the likes of scouting.
• Everyone and their grandmother have very strong AA now, including fighters launched by BBs and CAs. Such a single fighter does have the same effect on bomber squads like the AA-skill of cruisers (or nowadays even DDs) or enemy fighter squads. They widen the spread of the bombers, which results in almost always no hits from dive bombers and maybe one or two hits from torpedo squads - if you're lucky.
• The chance to cause flooding by torpedos dropped by aircrafts has been greatly reduced. Attacking a ship with torpedos, then wait for it to repair the flooding and then attack it with dive bombers to cause fire has been almost made obselete with this nerf
• The rule, that every CV must be matched by an enemy CV of the same tier may be the biggest nerf in the history of CV-nerfs. Before, CVs could sometimes ignore the enemy CV (e.g. Essex vs. Hiryu), which would lead to fun matches for both of them. Now it's almost always a CV vs. CV thing, which makes the matches dull and cost inefficient for CVs, since their primary target should be BBs
• The last increase regarding the distance a CV-player has to order his planes to drop has been accompanied by a bug. The increase of the distance applies, but the size of the marker has not increased. That means, even if you order the drop in the correct (visual) distance, your planes may refuse to drop and instead circle back to fly a new approach. That's extremely frustrating and often means the death of your squad before it can drop its load as a result of the extreme close-range AA.
• Some DDs, the hard-counter of CVs, have received the AA-skill of CAs. That makes attacking enemy ships in their range not only way harder, it makes it near to impossible for a CV to defend itself from an approaching DD
• Last but not least, the 0.5.1 patch brought a change in the time it takes for airplanes to land. If your CV is not moving, the time is doubled, if you're CV is moving, it's trippled. It wasn't mentioned in the patch notes, so no one knows whether it's just another bug that came with 0.5.1 or if it is intended.

[jonasnee]

CVs are very hard to use by now, esp the japanese, the Americans can still work due to their torpedos densety and the bombers power, added with their superior fighters.

 

the Japanese carriers on the other hand have craptorpedo squads now (lower density, lower damage and same speed, this is in no way compensated by 2 more aircraft), bomber squads i find more useful now (before my average hit score was 5 bombs and 12-14 torps now its around 10-20 bombs and max 10 torps) but bomb squads are RNG and dont even damage higher tier BB, seriusly i've had games where i hit 3 bombs and get no dmg done but the fire it caused.

 

oh and about the people who said "CVs where OP", maybe but frankly they should be the defacto most powerful ship in the game, atleast for high skill players, they give the most points for killing and are the only ships with dedicated matchmaking, they should rule the game and should be countered only by teamplay, if you get a CV pissed of at you you frankly shouldn't stand much of a chance, unless your a higher tier cruiser or something.

 

even games atm where i survive with some damage taken i need to get 3 kills just to turn a profit.

[olmedreca]

• Last but not least, the 0.5.1 patch brought a change in the time it takes for airplanes to land. If your CV is not moving, the time is doubled, if you're CV is moving, it's trippled. It wasn't mentioned in the patch notes, so no one knows whether it's just another bug that came with 0.5.1 or if it is intended.

This is the main reason why I don't play my Shokaku currently.

[Syrchalis]

To sum up a few reasons why there are way fewer CVs in high-tier matches:

 

• They become more and more cost inefficient at hier tiers
• You can easily get into a T10 match with your T8 CV. The T8, T9 and T10 AA will shred your planes though and all you can do is trying to "hunt" DDs, where "hunt" at this level difference is more the likes of scouting.
• Everyone and their grandmother have very strong AA now, including fighters launched by BBs and CAs. Such a single fighter does have the same effect on bomber squads like the AA-skill of cruisers (or nowadays even DDs) or enemy fighter squads. They widen the spread of the bombers, which results in almost always no hits from dive bombers and maybe one or two hits from torpedo squads - if you're lucky.
• The chance to cause flooding by torpedos dropped by aircrafts has been greatly reduced. Attacking a ship with torpedos, then wait for it to repair the flooding and then attack it with dive bombers to cause fire has been almost made obselete with this nerf
• The rule, that every CV must be matched by an enemy CV of the same tier may be the biggest nerf in the history of CV-nerfs. Before, CVs could sometimes ignore the enemy CV (e.g. Essex vs. Hiryu), which would lead to fun matches for both of them. Now it's almost always a CV vs. CV thing, which makes the matches dull and cost inefficient for CVs, since their primary target should be BBs
• The last increase regarding the distance a CV-player has to order his planes to drop has been accompanied by a bug. The increase of the distance applies, but the size of the marker has not increased. That means, even if you order the drop in the correct (visual) distance, your planes may refuse to drop and instead circle back to fly a new approach. That's extremely frustrating and often means the death of your squad before it can drop its load as a result of the extreme close-range AA.
• Some DDs, the hard-counter of CVs, have received the AA-skill of CAs. That makes attacking enemy ships in their range not only way harder, it makes it near to impossible for a CV to defend itself from an approaching DD
• Last but not least, the 0.5.1 patch brought a change in the time it takes for airplanes to land. If your CV is not moving, the time is doubled, if you're CV is moving, it's trippled. It wasn't mentioned in the patch notes, so no one knows whether it's just another bug that came with 0.5.1 or if it is intended.

 

Well as a veteran CV player, I say half of that is true.

 

• All ships become cost inefficient at higher tiers. The problem is that CVs were in particular nerfed in a previous patch in income. Then they nerfed damage income further, and shifted that income onto capping. CVs have insane base repair costs and insane costs when sunk. Those three together make it that bad. All they need to do is undo that first patch that nerfed CVs in particular, because they don't deal more damage than other classes anymore and they don't cap at all really
• Getting matched against higher ships as CV sucks and I think after they already made the matchmaking this boring they might as well make it so that CVs are always the highest tier in their game or at max 1 below, just so they can actually do something.
• AA was not really changed, the problem is the high amount of cruisers and dds lately, that make shitty targets and have the flawed AA ability, which is essentially a shell-deflector in a 7km radius, just for CVs
• Plane AI regarding drops has always been crap, but with bigger circles, no matter if they are displayed correctly, it gets worse
• CVs should be somewhat helpless against a DD. If you have a chance to survive, that's okay, but you shouldn't be expected to, because that's your weakness. Having distinct weaknesses makes for a fun game.
• The landing thing is crap and I honestly don't understand why WG even did that

[Kirasa]

It's most likely intended to test the waters with it. Lets hope they see that no one playes CVs anymore so that they change all that stupid crap back.

 

As for the mirror MM: The demand was there for it even from CV players, yes, to see if it works and can bring balance into the CV play.

 

Obviously it does NOT work. And yeah, matches with 1vs2 CVs were fun, and even against higher Tiers - unless the higher Tier was a T10 CV. That was the only exception.

You could at least see who knows how to play a CV if he won vs a higher Tier or more enemy CVs.

 

 

It was also a major mistake from WG to remove the strike decks the same patch they introduced mirror MM. They should have never touched the IJN strike decks.

[Syrchalis]

I think WG should discourage sniping carriers. To do so they could make all planes slower (so flying to the far away CV costs considerable time) or buff CV AA or give CVs the AA consumable. Taking out the other CV is the absolute main objective and due to their HORRIBLE turnrate is also rather easy. Especially IJN CVs are food for planes. A Hakuryu can barely shoot down 1-2 Midway planes with it's AA.

 

I really think that this sniping issue is a huge part of why high tier CV play is so horribly boring. Either you wreck the other CV or you lose immediately. Or you both fail horribly in your attempts and go out with no xp/creds. It also leads to CA having to stay far back with CV and doing nothing for half the game which isn't fun (but effective at winning).

 

1vs1 CV matches also suck for this reason, 2vs2 was at least somewhat interesting, even though it isn't much fun either.

 

I really believe CVs could be balanced better without mirror matchmaking if you give the team without CV or lower tier CV not "better" ships but more ships. Better ships have the problem that side with the CV has little fun than because they have to fight ships they have little chance against. With just less ships they have a good chance in a fight, it's just your side will run out of ships sooner so the CV has to balance that out.

[viceadmiral123]

The current spawns for ships on maps makes it hard to snipe CVs. With proper AA coverage from team members it's hard to bring down a carrier in a single wave. The lack of friendly AA cover is a completely different matter. I've had games where the enemy CV has been trying to kill me the whole game (eventually succeeding or not), and in the meantime I win the game for my own team and disregarding him.

[cherry2blost]

To be honest, from a non CV player, the main issue is more to do with the fact that most people who have high tier carriers rushed up the line, gained tier 9 or 10 and were guaranteed being placed aginst mostly 2 tier lower ships or just newbies in premiums, the newbies have learnt a little and now the masses are heading up the tiers, meaning that there are now more higher tier ships, hence the massive, and lets all be honest, it was massive benefit that the T10 CV had in being top tier in every game has now gone, problem is you all over performed so much during that period that WG have 'balanced' accordingly, hence the massive nerfs we see now.... So to paraphrase, you seem to have had a purple patch, but it's now biting you in the backside.........