Everyone bunching to the sides

[Hsaki]

I usually do more than I am required for the team, like getting kills or getting enemy ships' health low. This used to work and I had a 64% win rate. Now, it dropped to 53-4% in 5 weeks. It's like everyone would go bunch to one side and completely disregard the rest of the map now. I don't know how many games I've played with this consistently happening. I would even warn the team of it, and this kind of thing still happens practically everytime. I understand that pushing into the enemy's side of the map together may be a useful rush tactic, but the problem is, no one pushes. Instead, everyone just sits there at that area and waits for enemy ships to come in the other side and back stab their behinds (and kill the CV while they're at it). Even Counter Strike Silvers/novas won't be this dumb. I don't understand how people fascinated by warships could be so consistently ignorant of strategy and positioning. This clearly even violates weak form efficiency, unless there is some tactic I do not know about that works every time I am not on the team.

[Surmaaja]

I don't think there's much to do about this. Some things I find effective.

 

- Take shorter route to the opposing side. Sometimes when you spot ships some of the blob will disperse and join you eventually. Be at safe distance from the blob so if things get hairy you can retreat to them.

- Try to form a small combined arms patrol of 3-4 ships. I had a nice game yesterday in Wyoming where I managed to pull one Cruiser and a DD with me with another Wyoming joining us later while rest of our team happily sailed across the border. The Wakatake and ST Louis were kinda noobs but as long as I marked the targets we were doing great. Divisions help immensely at this.

- Play DD, you have the potential to distract, slow down and solo small enemy fleets.

- People usually tend to follow the big ships. Trying to get to the vanguard with BB sometimes attracts fellow cruisers to join the action.

 

Personally, I don't worry about this too much. Usually in this situation the ones holding flank and delaying the enemy are the ones who deal the most damage while the border sailors fire one or two shots in the entire game.

[Zathras_Grimm]

Safety in numbers I guess lol. Although I must admit that I have found myself asking why I am holding an area of the map with a couple of friendlies, against a larger number of enemies, whilst the rest of the team seem to be having a town meeting!

 

Usually not one to express a hardline view during a match I did find myself typing for them to push the cap before we were over run at the top. 

 

That's why I would like to see a proper clan system.

[Hsaki]

Surmaaja, on 18 November 2015 - 10:46 AM, said:

I don't think there's much to do about this. Some things I find effective.

 

- Take shorter route to the opposing side. Sometimes when you spot ships some of the blob will disperse and join you eventually. Be at safe distance from the blob so if things get hairy you can retreat to them.

- Try to form a small combined arms patrol of 3-4 ships. I had a nice game yesterday in Wyoming where I managed to pull one Cruiser and a DD with me with another Wyoming joining us later while rest of our team happily sailed across the border. The Wakatake and ST Louis were kinda noobs but as long as I marked the targets we were doing great. Divisions help immensely at this.

- Play DD, you have the potential to distract, slow down and solo small enemy fleets.

- People usually tend to follow the big ships. Trying to get to the vanguard with BB sometimes attracts fellow cruisers to join the action.

 

Personally, I don't worry about this too much. Usually in this situation the ones holding flank and delaying the enemy are the ones who deal the most damage while the border sailors fire one or two shots in the entire game.

It's not that they delay enemies even though. I do not know why, but they always hang around some 15+km away from the enemy ships. Even when you tell them about enemy ships breaking through, all they do is hand there too. And since BBs are too slow in the first place, so much time is wasted when they decided to go the opposite side of where they spawned just because everyone is.

I guess I am just pissed that this kind of thing keeps on repeating. I just want to get the daily win bonus and be done with it, but then I had to lose in such a ridiculous way constantly.
 

[Kirasa]

You are now reaching the higher Tiers, so you see a completly different playstyle. It IS better to stay in larger groups.

Normally you'd have two groups, but one can work on certain maps even better. Like two Brothers Domination. Forget one side, and focus on the other while deffing the base where you started. Get 3 bases and you more or less are on your way to the win. Splitting up to both sides can mean that the smaller group just gets overrun, while doing almost nothing, while the larger group is not large enough to then keep 3 caps. Deffing left and right is harder since the way from one base to the other is too long, while you can def easily north and south at the same time.

 

Losing some of your WR can also just be an effect of you going down to your real WR after having a too high one with only few matches in the lower Tiers. Also a normal effect of having more matches and reaching the higher Tiers.

[Kenliero]

Safety in numbers I guess lol. Although I must admit that I have found myself asking why I am holding an area of the map with a couple of friendlies, against a larger number of enemies, whilst the rest of the team seem to be having a town meeting!

This always happens. Nowadays I just always head to center of the map, so that I can help everyone, everywhere.... at the same time...

[Kenliero]

. 

 

[wavijunk]

Had the same thing yesterday on Solomons map in my Storozhevoi.

 

I went down the middle of the 2 islands and fenced with an enemy DD and a Kuma...After I got sunk by an enemy cruiser that sailed up from the bottom gap I looked around at my "team" and they were gathered like a bunch of sheep around the small island at the top of the map...all of them !

 

I admit it's partly my fault for not using the mini map effectively and missing the herd stampede north but I never even considered the team would not contend the Southern approach.

 

Live and learn I suppose.

 

[Hsaki]

You are now reaching the higher Tiers, so you see a completly different playstyle. It IS better to stay in larger groups.

Normally you'd have two groups, but one can work on certain maps even better. Like two Brothers Domination. Forget one side, and focus on the other while deffing the base where you started. Get 3 bases and you more or less are on your way to the win. Splitting up to both sides can mean that the smaller group just gets overrun, while doing almost nothing, while the larger group is not large enough to then keep 3 caps. Deffing left and right is harder since the way from one base to the other is too long, while you can def easily north and south at the same time.

 

Losing some of your WR can also just be an effect of you going down to your real WR after having a too high one with only few matches in the lower Tiers. Also a normal effect of having more matches and reaching the higher Tiers.

I don't think you get what I'm trying to say, since I do agree with most of what you say. The thing about the play style of most players I have come across today (4 games out of 7 today) is that you would have 2 ships going left (hypothetically), and all other ships just bunching on the right side, not pushing. The enemy team can destroy the 2 lone ships on the left ridiculously easily, and even with the majority of ships being on the right, they do not make any progress and remains at the same spot they started out in. 2 times today, I see BBs crawling their way to the opposite side of the map from where they spawn only to lose the game because they just stay there and left the side of their spawn completely unguarded. This is by all means not a good strategy, you either push, or you guard both sides. All gathering on one side just makes you easy to kill and makes the team entirely predictable. Also, considering the empirical evidence of this strategy always failing unless I get 3+ kills, I do not think this works in either lower or upper tiers.

[DARK_SPECTER]

You are now reaching the higher Tiers, so you see a completly different playstyle. It IS better to stay in larger groups.

Normally you'd have two groups, but one can work on certain maps even better. Like two Brothers Domination. Forget one side, and focus on the other while deffing the base where you started. Get 3 bases and you more or less are on your way to the win. Splitting up to both sides can mean that the smaller group just gets overrun, while doing almost nothing, while the larger group is not large enough to then keep 3 caps. Deffing left and right is harder since the way from one base to the other is too long, while you can def easily north and south at the same time.

 

Losing some of your WR can also just be an effect of you going down to your real WR after having a too high one with only few matches in the lower Tiers. Also a normal effect of having more matches and reaching the higher Tiers.

higher tier means major campn i found to boring not fun in higher tiers 

 

[M4R4Z]

 I don't understand how people fascinated by warships could be so consistently ignorant of strategy and positioning. 

Fact is that no fleet ever fought for capturing a spot in the sea.

In ground warfare, capturing some keys positions (hills, bridges, etc)  is vital. In sea warfare, a spot in open sea is just water, and once you "capture" it you cannot keep it, because the fleet must go back to base to refuel. Fleets usually engaged in open sea and just tried to destroy each other.

Frankly I find the base capturing mechanism (in various battle modes) to be too complicated for new players, just now after 700+ battles I am starting to understand it, but I understand it was introduced to avoid long battles and draws..

[zetruenando]

Well 2 things here, when playing a BB, better avoid being caught in a crossfire. Indeed with the awful turret rotation time, this means a fast death so only way to avoid this is to hug a side of the map or top of map but avoid getting isolated in the middle.

Then as some have said previously, it's always best to stick in groups. A good group will push forward and this is generally awarded with a win, A bad group tries to remain out of reach of enemy fire and this results in NO capping and a loss.

When will WG implement teams in this game so that we can for once play in a truly coordinated and efficient manner with mates that know their roles?

[Surmaaja]

Well 2 things here, when playing a BB, better avoid being caught in a crossfire. Indeed with the awful turret rotation time, this means a fast death so only way to avoid this is to hug a side of the map or top of map but avoid getting isolated in the middle.

Then as some have said previously, it's always best to stick in groups. A good group will push forward and this is generally awarded with a win, A bad group tries to remain out of reach of enemy fire and this results in NO capping and a loss.

When will WG implement teams in this game so that we can for once play in a truly coordinated and efficient manner with mates that know their roles?

 

People are too afraid to take damage in battleships. Taking shorter route doesn't mean you should go solo, just be at safe distance with the rest of your team.

Taking the border route is just a sign of bad game sense. There are plenty of safe routes for battleships in any map but people are just lazy and go for the easiest one while taking zero risks, even if that means losing the game.

 

I believe other classes are more reliant on grouping up than battleships so that's why people tend to clump up. As long as you have someone to spot the DDs you are good to go.

[Seikin]

Its just Herd mentality...  Huddle together, and hope you're not the guy on the edge when the wolves come.

 

 

Me, I'd rather be running with the wolves.

[anonym_gCiyicUsNYGl]

235 matches is quite small, the sample isn't enough to validate your winrate. After 400-500 battles, you'll have a good representation of your winrate.

 

Your highest tier ship is the Aoba so all you have to do is cover AA and help your fellow BBs.

[nooberg]

Sailing along the border is a very good tactical maneuver. 

Allow me to explain.

 

First - in a digitaly created game world nothing exists beyond the edge of the map, beyond the border. So if you at the border, dangers can come from only one side. Your back is safe, no need to even look in that direction. No planes gonna torp you from there, no DD's gonna sneak up you from there, no BB's gonna citadel you from there. So you point your guns towards the only danerous side and snipe away in bliss for the rest of the round.

Also, this is the game where your ships turns SLOW and your guns even slower. Quiclly changing your aim and facing to react to sudden threats in not an option for most of the ships, excepts some DD's .

 

The other option, say, going right in the middle leaves you dangeroysly exposed from all sides, open for a pincer movement from the enemy. Even if you sail in a big group. The shells can hit you from any direction and you can't keep you ship angled towards all enemies. You face that BB over there, oh look, there is another one to this side and you are full broadside to him. Even if you are not the closest ship to him - smart players shoot for easy targets, not for the closest ones. You can try facing him but now you are broadside to the first one. You are royaly screwed is the point I'm trying to make here.

 

So the best tactical option is to all head to one side of the map, start making your way slowly towarsd the enemy base in a circular motion, always keeping your back to the border. If both fleets choose the same side this results in a big clash, If one chooses left and the other right - you have a chase around the clock. Other variants are infferior - if the fleet is split the small part is gonna be destroyed quickly. 

 

Some might say - but this is a almost surefire way to lose the game. So what ? Winning / Losing in the current game rules are irrelevant. The game only rewards you for doing damage and players only want to make XP / Credits. They play exactly the way the game rules tells them to. 

 

Radical idea for a solution.

Why not make the map without borders, warp around map - like in ye olde Asteroids game - if you exit left your ship appears on the right, exit top appear bottom. 
Madness and chaos ensues

But it might be fun.

[Kenliero]

Nooberg, your logic is complete fail. If (according to you)the game is about damage and credits, then your "campertactics" are wrong, because your damage and credits are pathetic.

[Surmaaja]

snip

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

 

The point is you don't do maximum amount of damage because you are sailing at the border. Most of the times there are not as many potential targets. If the enemy team spreads out or sails along the other border you aren't going to fire a single shot in the match, because there is no way you can respond to the incoming threat in big [edited]slow battleship at the edge of the world. The game ends when opponent swarms your base and you end up having a team with full health warships happily sailing around the map like in a goddamn yacht club.

[nooberg]

 

Where did I say I follow that tactic ?

I'm more of a YOLO type of player, hence the damage and credits. I'm having fun, than you very much statistics guy.

 

Campertactics is boring, but game rules encourage it and the big herds of players near the borders are solid evidence. 

One one hand had we have:

Finishing the game with a loss, in a full healt ship, having done very little damage - the game goes - here is a little xp and credits for your time. 

On the other - winning the game, MVP, sinked 3 ship, tons of damage, carried the team , but, of the tragedy - your ships was destroyed in the process - the game goes - BAD PLAYER, BAD, and slaps you across the face with huge repair bill. 

 

Most of the Free to play games I have tried reward players with ingame currency for a win. And so people are inclined to do their best to win.

Just imagine DOTA 2 with the same model - people will play nothing but hard carries, and will happily camp the jungle while the enemy team destroys the base. 

 

 

[Surmaaja]

Where did I say I follow that tactic ?

 

 

I apologise if you understood my post that way. I was referring to general idea as I think most border sailors seem to think the way you presented.

[Seikin]

I think the problem with that, Nooberg - is that while many of your points are true - there are also a number of other factors to consider too.  To have a protected 'blindside' - you don't need to be against the border ,you just need to be map-aware and know that its either way too far for the enemy to get there, or you have friendlies there. So you can push without being right at the edge (ofc pushing right down the middle is opening up to a world of pain). 

In relation to BB's - they are made for taking damage and are slow - and I find that you get two types of BB players - those that understand this and so head towards the fight with the hope of achieving a push (with friendlies following him) - while soaking a lot of the incoming damage (because he can handle it) - while ensuring that he will get into combat (as opposed to getting stuck at the edge out of range and too slow to chase it) - and ensuring he gets close enough to score a few good citadels.

And you get those who prefer to stay back - at a set range (usually almost max range) usually side-on and trying not to get hurt.  I find that these tend to be the kind of BB players that hug the edge...  Then when you get that 'big clash' - these are usually the same players that are first to turn and run once the incoming fire appears..  And when the BB's run, the rest of the team often starts doing the same - so instead of having a nice line pushing up the edge of the map, you end up with a bunch of ships circling in a corner as they take fire, turn away, realise they're out of range to fire back (or facing the wrong way) so turn back etc..   This achieves nothing other than letting the opposition cap everything then surround you.

 

[nooberg]

Right on point Seikin.

 

Sadly, the BB captains of the first, brave type are rare and exotic sight. I make sure to support them when I see one in game. 

[Cheradanine]

Hi,

I think part of the issue is that people are still learning. Whole lot of players joined when Beta went properly live so we are all quite new to this.

Personally, I must admit to having looked at my IJN Battleships (Kongo atm) and said to myself "wow, look at the range on that. I better long range snipe". Which seemed a fair choice to begin with. Horrible games ensued. Few hits, few kills etc. What I missed of course was the ship's speed and ability to chase down enemies when working at the vanguard of a group.

So now it seems I am one of the "magical rare" (someone elses words, not mine!) battleship players who actually leads a line. And yes, I do tell my team "pushing east onto A, feel free to follow" or whatever, and normally get a few "Affirmative!" messages in response and a little group chasing along behind me. Normally die (and still often near edge of map, sorry), but have soaked many 10s of 1000s of hp dmg for my team and actually smashed up a few enemies as well. And more importantly set an enemy flank on the back foot with my allies chasing them.

Patience and friendly advice certainly will go further than calling those people in the blob "noobs" or "idiots".

 

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

A lot of good advice on this thread, especially concerning the danger of relying on sniping.

 

One exception to the rule is when you are captain of a German cruiser in a 1-on-1 battle with another CA/BB.

 

We are always told "Know your ship. Maximize its strengths. Minimise its weaknesses".

 

The Königsberg has great, long range guns which hit very hard with AP shells. However it is EXTREMELY fragile. You have to snipe in this ship, but you get results with it.

 

However with a Murmansk or Kuma, just get involved with the mix of the action, and try to support your destroyers or battleships as the battle demands.

[Surmaaja]

Good points, and I too am confident things will get better. At some point these people surely must realize how much more they could do to improve their performance unless they are completely delusional (at which point there's nothing you can do to convince them otherwise). After realizing how crap I was doing in my Myogi I managed to improve my performance significantly when I got Kongo. I think she is a really great ship to experiment tactics like these described in this thread because you still have the speed to potentially get out of sticky situations if you are left unsupported or realize you messed up your way of approach.