German Battleships?

[Deamon93]

So, will some of them have torpedoes like Tirpitz? Atleast according to Wikipedia, H-classes were supposed to have torps, but we will see. 

 

Torpedoes were removed, except in Tirpitz. They may or may not have them, who knows.

 

The Bismarck and Scharnhorst classes should have torpedoes, but the earlier designs would not.

 

My current best guess/wish list for the tree is this;

 

Tier 3:  Helgoland

Tier 4:  Kaiser

Tier 5:  Mackensen

Tier 6:  Bayern

Tier 7:  Scharnhorst

Tier 8:  Bismarck

Tier 9: H39

Tier 10: H41

 

This is by no means my "ideal" battleship tech tree, but seems consistent with the German gun stats that have supposedly been data mined from the latest game code.  For example, apparently WG have put in stats for the 13.8" gun and the only class of ships designed to be fitted with that gun were the Mackensens, so they must be in there somewhere and they're Tier 5 material.

 

Don't trust too much datamining, a lot of things were present in the folders but not yet available. There are a lot of examples for that.

 

/give_sms_seydlitz 1

Please, WG.

 

Now, time to get seriously. If the German tree is supposed to be less caliber - higher RoF (knock, knock, Tirpitz), Then I'd see the Nassau at Tier 3.

 

But those are just speculations, hope there are gonna be some leaks

 

Usually WG released info in advance before the line is officially out. When that will happen who knows.

[VonPletz]

 

Germany wasn't exactly known for their cruisers and the Kaiserliche Marine hadn't enough designs to cover the line and save the day. On the other hand the BB line will be made primarily of ships from the glorious WWI days and, perhaps, WG will add the BCs which can have a line entirely made of WWI designs without the sillyness of the O-class(which indeed is pretty much an oversized German cruiser but a bit faster)

 

 

 

Bayern should be pitted against QE so she's a tier VI, with the others bumped down by a tier and with Helgoland axed(since WG decided not to have tier II dreads a whole generation of early designs had to be axed). Above Bayern you can go for late WWI projects(there are some) and from VIII to X you can Bismarck, Bismarck XL(aka H-39) and Bismarck XXL(aka H-41). In case H-41 doesn't fit well against the current tier Xs WG can go for the XXXL(aka H-42) but we shall see.

 

 

 

 

 

Really...So I guess you are discounting the Prinz Eugen that survived the war and had a very distinguished record.  Or the INCREDIABLE service and adventures of the Emden that WOWS gave us a "piece of s%&T!!!" and called it something it most definitely is not what and is , infact, an insult to the sailors of the Emden.

 

Come on!!...German Cruisers were famous for being FAST, Stealth raiders that the Allies could not catch and when they did catch them it took OVERWHELMING numbers to kill them because the ships were made very well and tough. (something NOT reflected in WOWS)

 

All WOWS did was come up with a crap line of ships that 1/2 are imaginary and gave them CRAP armor and just threw in modules that with their thin armor made them a joke.

 

That is my fear that they treat the rest of the German Battleship line the same way....Just like they treated the German Tanks in WOTs.

 

[Comrad_StaIin]

I expect something like a battleship tree and a seperate battlecruiser tree. If we look at the gun calibers its kinda logical how the tree will be build. I'm not sure if the Bayern class can become T6 or it might be too OP. Scharnhorst class seems to fit a line of battlecruisers better with her lighter armour and lower caliber guns.

 

Battleships

T3 Nassau class 12x280mm with placement similar to the kawachi class

T4 Helgoland class 12x305mm with placement similar to the kawachi class

T5 Kaiser class 10x305mm in mixed placement with the front turrets superfiring. Has a 10 gun broadside so an improvement in firepower over the Helgoland

T6 König class 10x305mm with placement similar to the new york class

T7 Bayern class 8x380cm similar to the placement of Colorado/Nagato

T8 Bissmarck Class 8x380cm

T9/T10 Its WG so we will have to wait and see what will happen

 

 

 

semes unrealistic to me what you  have done there

 

Bayern is Tier 6 as we have the Warspite allready as Tier 6

Bismarck is Tier 8 as Tirpitz is too

König is Tier 5 at best

I would throw out Helgoland and place Kaiser there

*laughing* 

they Scharnhorsts had a thicker  belt than the Bismarcks

and are Battleships

[Deamon93]

 

Really...So I guess you are discounting the Prinz Eugen that survived the war and had a very distinguished record.  Or the INCREDIABLE service and adventures of the Emden that WOWS gave us a "piece of s%&T!!!" and called it something it most definitely is not what and is , infact, an insult to the sailors of the Emden.

 

Come on!!...German Cruisers were famous for being FAST, Stealth raiders that the Allies could not catch and when they did catch them it took OVERWHELMING numbers to kill them because the ships were made very well and tough. (something NOT reflected in WOWS)

 

All WOWS did was come up with a crap line of ships that 1/2 are imaginary and gave them CRAP armor and just threw in modules that with their thin armor made them a joke.

 

That is my fear that they treat the rest of the German Battleship line the same way....Just like they treated the German Tanks in WOTs.

 

 

Capabilities =/= service record. Prinz Eugen was an oversized cruiser which still had meh protection. Zara as example before getting things stripped out to due the excess weight had 200 mm of belt armor, that's a bit different against the mere 80 of Hipper&co don't you think?

 

Emden luck was the fact she operated in the Indian Ocean and finding a ship like her took forever. Take as example the hunt for Bismarck: the Brits took a while to find her, not because they are bumb or because Germany has stealth technology but because finding something in the middle of nowhere was, and pretty much still is, complicated. Emden was perfectly suited for commerce raiding but in actual combat she wasn't(otherwise why wouldthe Kaiserliche Marine would have bothered refitting most of their newer cruisers with the 150 mm guns instead of the 105 mm guns?)

 

Saying they were fast is a bit vague though, simply because regarding the post WWI cruisers that tends not to be true(compared to contemporary cruisers from other nations that is).

 

Stealthy raiders? If you have a way to find 100% of the times at the first try what you're searching go and apply to any Coast Guard, you would save them a lot of money.

 

Overwhelming numbers? The Brits do like the overkill, so what? They had the numerical advantage so they were able to exploit such advantage against the Germans, both in WWI and in WWII. Granted from Jutland onward nobody has ever gone so overkill than them(the whole Grand fleet crossing the T against the poor Germans, granted they survived because they GTFOed the moment they realized what was up)

 

1/2 imaginary? Let's make a run down, shall we?

II)Dresden: historical

III)Colberg: historical

IV)Karlsruhe: historical

V)Koenigsberg: historical

VI)Nurnberg: historical

VII)Yorck: she was a paper design developed prior Deutschland

VIII)Hipper: historical

IX)Roon: probably fictional

X)Hindenburg: probably fictional

 

So there are nine cruisers here and to get 1/2 you need to have between 4 and 5(depending on how you round up). You have two probably fictional and a historical paper project so the maximum you can achieve is 3(ie 1/3 of the line). If you count the probably fictional only you achieve a bit more than a fifth(2/9=0.22, rounded up). Maths doesn't lie.

 

Crap armor? Find me a German cruiser which had good armor(ie superior to their contemporary counterparts) if you think that isn't the case.

 

The German BBs, at least until tier VI/VII(depending on which ship will end up at tier VII) would play out more or less as the US ones(slow and with good level of protection) but with some differences, especially regarding the primary armament. Saying they will be crap is a bit of an overstretch, especially since the only BB we currently ingame(Tirpitz) isn't crap(although I encountered a lot of people not able to use her properly, not surprising in case of a premium).

 

 

[mtm78]

My German tanks do better then my Russian tanks.. guess it's not the tanks...

[byronicasian]

 

Capabilities =/= service record. Prinz Eugen was an oversized cruiser which still had meh protection. Zara as example before getting things stripped out to due the excess weight had 200 mm of belt armor, that's a bit different against the mere 80 of Hipper&co don't you think?

 

Emden luck was the fact she operated in the Indian Ocean and finding a ship like her took forever. Take as example the hunt for Bismarck: the Brits took a while to find her, not because they are bumb or because Germany has stealth technology but because finding something in the middle of nowhere was, and pretty much still is, complicated. Emden was perfectly suited for commerce raiding but in actual combat she wasn't(otherwise why wouldthe Kaiserliche Marine would have bothered refitting most of their newer cruisers with the 150 mm guns instead of the 105 mm guns?)

 

Saying they were fast is a bit vague though, simply because regarding the post WWI cruisers that tends not to be true(compared to contemporary cruisers from other nations that is).

 

Stealthy raiders? If you have a way to find 100% of the times at the first try what you're searching go and apply to any Coast Guard, you would save them a lot of money.

 

Overwhelming numbers? The Brits do like the overkill, so what? They had the numerical advantage so they were able to exploit such advantage against the Germans, both in WWI and in WWII. Granted from Jutland onward nobody has ever gone so overkill than them(the whole Grand fleet crossing the T against the poor Germans, granted they survived because they GTFOed the moment they realized what was up)

 

1/2 imaginary? Let's make a run down, shall we?

II)Dresden: historical

III)Colberg: historical

IV)Karlsruhe: historical

V)Koenigsberg: historical

VI)Nurnberg: historical

VII)Yorck: she was a paper design developed prior Deutschland

VIII)Hipper: historical

IX)Roon: probably fictional

X)Hindenburg: probably fictional

 

So there are nine cruisers here and to get 1/2 you need to have between 4 and 5(depending on how you round up). You have two probably fictional and a historical paper project so the maximum you can achieve is 3(ie 1/3 of the line). If you count the probably fictional only you achieve a bit more than a fifth(2/9=0.22, rounded up). Maths doesn't lie.

 

Crap armor? Find me a German cruiser which had good armor(ie superior to their contemporary counterparts) if you think that isn't the case.

 

The German BBs, at least until tier VI/VII(depending on which ship will end up at tier VII) would play out more or less as the US ones(slow and with good level of protection) but with some differences, especially regarding the primary armament. Saying they will be crap is a bit of an overstretch, especially since the only BB we currently ingame(Tirpitz) isn't crap(although I encountered a lot of people not able to use her properly, not surprising in case of a premium).

 

 

 

I eagerly await VonPletz's unbiased, coherent, and calm response....../s 

 

Also topkek about KM cruisers having" superior protection". Sure took a lot of modern 28cm rounds to mission kill and sink the Blucher of the Adm Hipper class. And by a lot , I mean 2, and by modern I mean from the 1891.

 

The HMS Exeter , took 7 hits from far modern 28cm guns in its engagement with the Graf Spee.  

[1MajorKoenig]

Bummer, they did it again! Apparently postponed until end of August - no Q1...

 

http://thearmoredpat...ered-questions/

 

Damn, I am still hoping for 3 Lines eventually with different play Styles:

 

1) BB (for The first release ) - Slow, excellent armor, good survivability, less powerful main batteries Up to T7, then fast.

 

T3 Nassau

T4 Kaiser

T5 König

T6 Bayern

T7 Scharnhorst

T8 Bismarck

T9 H39

T10 H41

 

2) Battlecruiser - Trade some more firepower for Speed, especially low tier. Still smaller and less guns then US and IJN.

 

T3 Von der Tann

T4 Moltke

T5 Derfflinger (the Iron dog)

T6 Mackensen 

T7 Ersatz Yorck 

T8 L20a

T9 GK10

T10

 

3) Panzerschiffe - more cruiser like game play- good accuracy, ROF, speed and Torps at the cost of armor and HP 

 

T2 SMS Gneisenau

T3 SMS Blücher 

T4 KM Deutschland

 T5 D-Class

 T6 P-Class 

T7 Schlachtkreuzer 1928

T8 O-Class

 

[Deamon93]

The pocket BBs are cruisers, not battleships. They should end up in the cruiser line, assuming WG finds a way to balance them. Moreover for sure O-class isn't a tier VIII: her armor is crap and her firepower is meh. Moreover Scharnhorst could have the same firepower but she is much better protected and she loses just a few knots in terms of speed. Having O above Scharnhorst doesn't make much of a sense.

[1MajorKoenig]

The pocket BBs are cruisers, not battleships. They should end up in the cruiser line, assuming WG finds a way to balance them. Moreover for sure O-class isn't a tier VIII: her armor is crap and her firepower is meh. Moreover Scharnhorst could have the same firepower but she is much better protected and she loses just a few knots in terms of speed. Having O above Scharnhorst doesn't make much of a sense.

 

You are 100% Right here. But only if you compare them 1-to-1 to "proper" BB. Idea  was more to create a different playstyle for this hybrid branch. I was thinking more of a "Hipper" with 6 x 38cm for The O-Class rather than a poorly armed and armored "Bismarck". Might be too much to put into the cruiser branch. 

Possibly hard to balance but a resfreshing alternative to the snorring BBs waiting and Camping.

[Sigimundus]

 

http://thearmoredpatrol.com/2016/01/31/wows-tap-qa-iii-answered-questions/

4) Can we expect German BBs in 2016?

– Yes, for Gamescom 2016. (17.-21.08.2016)

[Deamon93]

 

You are 100% Right here. But only if you compare them 1-to-1 to "proper" BB. Idea  was more to create a different playstyle for this hybrid branch. I was thinking more of a "Hipper" with 6 x 38cm for The O-Class rather than a poorly armed and armored "Bismarck". Might be too much to put into the cruiser branch. 

Possibly hard to balance but a resfreshing alternative to the snorring BBs waiting and Camping.

 

Well tonnage wise they are cruisers(except O-class which is a BC): Deutschland was designed to use in the most effective way the tonnage limitation of 10000 tons. D and P are revised iteration of the original design meant to improve it in terms of protection, firepower and speed. Depending on where Deutschland goes should be more or less easy enough to place the others but the problem is exactly that. I think she may go at tier VI as cruisers with the other ones placed accordingly but that's just an educated guess.

 

O on the other hand has other issues since she is pretty much a BB sized ship with not so great protection and very high speed. I encountered similar ships while making my Italian tree(Italy made similar designs) but I must confess I decided not to work on those due to the fact balancing them would be a pain.

 

Of course I would love to have as many ships as possible so I hope WG will find a way to add them.

 

[1MajorKoenig]

 

Well tonnage wise they are cruisers(except O-class which is a BC): Deutschland was designed to use in the most effective way the tonnage limitation of 10000 tons. D and P are revised iteration of the original design meant to improve it in terms of protection, firepower and speed. Depending on where Deutschland goes should be more or less easy enough to place the others but the problem is exactly that. I think she may go at tier VI as cruisers with the other ones placed accordingly but that's just an educated guess.

 

O on the other hand has other issues since she is pretty much a BB sized ship with not so great protection and very high speed. I encountered similar ships while making my Italian tree(Italy made similar designs) but I must confess I decided not to work on those due to the fact balancing them would be a pain.

 

Of course I would love to have as many ships as possible so I hope WG will find a way to add them.

 

 

Me too! Also I would love to see some variation in game play. To be honest the only difference would be the match making. Do we want to have an O-Class cruiser matched up against a BB or a cruiser. 

 

Other than that you can find good reasons to put them in either category. If you chose cruiser the line should be bumped up 1 or 2 tiers.

 

I still prefer a different BB experience

[Gerudan]

The Bismarck and Scharnhorst classes should have torpedoes, but the earlier designs would not.

 

Actually the older classes had them too. They had underwater torp tubes even on the Nassau class, so that could be something to make the German BBs more diverse from the US ships. 

 

It will also be interesting to see if and what they will do with the Scharnorst class. 28 cm guns isn't exactly great, but if the turning and reload speeds are good and the ships get their real 31 to 32 knots speed, they might make excelent CA and DD hunter. 

[1MajorKoenig]

 

Actually the older classes had them too. They had underwater torp tubes even on the Nassau class, so that could be something to make the German BBs more diverse from the US ships. 

 

It will also be interesting to see if and what they will do with the Scharnorst class. 28 cm guns isn't exactly great, but if the turning and reload speeds are good and the ships get their real 31 to 32 knots speed, they might make excelent CA and DD hunter. 

I don't think we will see torpedos on "regular " BBs. Maybe on a premium Graf Spee or if WG agrees to put in my "Panzerschiffe" branch ;-)

[Deamon93]

Most ships had underwater tubes but thise were removed because they were useless.

[Gerudan]

Most ships had underwater tubes but thise were removed because they were useless.

 

In reality, yes. 

 

I don't think they WILL be on the German BBs in game, but it WOULD be a way to make them more interesting. 

 

What else are German BBs bringing to the table? Weaker guns and better armor maybe, but they older ships will likely feel like the US BBs most of the time. 

[1MajorKoenig]

 

In reality, yes. 

 

I don't think they WILL be on the German BBs in game, but it WOULD be a way to make them more interesting. 

 

What else are German BBs bringing to the table? Weaker guns and better armor maybe, but they older ships will likely feel like the US BBs most of the time. 

 

They had exceptional survivability in real live at the cost of smaller main caliber. Tirpitz's opinion was that a ship 's main duty is to stay afloat.

 

I hope WG will model them accordingly. 

 

Btw. decent gun and shell design made up to some extend for the smaller caliber inWW1.

 

My Main Concern is more that WG axes all the pretty WW1 ships in favour of WW2 stuff:-(

[Deamon93]

 

In reality, yes. 

 

I don't think they WILL be on the German BBs in game, but it WOULD be a way to make them more interesting. 

 

What else are German BBs bringing to the table? Weaker guns and better armor maybe, but they older ships will likely feel like the US BBs most of the time. 

 

Having fixed torpedo tubes with crappy range? Perhaps but then again it would be strange since a lot of ships which had them IRL they don't ingame.

 

The WWI designs would more or less feel like the US but with differences, then again we shall see.

 

 

They had exceptional survivability in real live at the cost of smaller main caliber. Tirpitz's opinion was that a ship 's main duty is to stay afloat.

 

I hope WG will model them accordingly. 

 

Btw. decent gun and shell design made up to some extend for the smaller caliber inWW1.

 

My Main Concern is more that WG axes all the pretty WW1 ships in favour of WW2 stuff:-(

 

They could almost make a WWI only BB line if they go for the battlecruisers so there isn't that problem.

[1MajorKoenig]

 

Having fixed torpedo tubes with crappy range? Perhaps but then again it would be strange since a lot of ships which had them IRL they don't ingame.

 

The WWI designs would more or less feel like the US but with differences, then again we shall see.

 

 

They could almost make a WWI only BB line if they go for the battlecruisers so there isn't that problem.

 

Problem would not be "can't" - more "don't want to". WG seems to have a clear preference for WW2 stuff. 

 

They removed T2 for BBs which would have been dreadnought era and from T4 on we pretty much have WW2 style ships (eg. Pagoda style IJN and 1930s upgraded USN ships)

[Deamon93]

 

Problem would not be "can't" - more "don't want to". WG seems to have a clear preference for WW2 stuff. 

 

They removed T2 for BBs which would have been dreadnought era and from T4 on we pretty much have WW2 style ships (eg. Pagoda style IJN and 1930s upgraded USN ships)

 

That change isn't exactly a big deal: they removed a generation of dreads but that's about it. The WWII style is due to the fact the BBs need AA otherwise CVs would eat them alive. Moreover the original hulls are present, the WWII style is there in the upgrades.

[1MajorKoenig]

 

That change isn't exactly a big deal: they removed a generation of dreads but that's about it. The WWII style is due to the fact the BBs need AA otherwise CVs would eat them alive. Moreover the original hulls are present, the WWII style is there in the upgrades.

 

Possibly the reason. But on T2 to T4 planes are not toooo dangerous.

 

I would love to have a "Jutland" kind of battle/tier.

 

T4 Seydlitz vs. Queen Mary / König vs. Iron Duke / etc. 

[Deamon93]

 

Possibly the reason. But on T2 to T4 planes are not toooo dangerous.

 

I would love to have a "Jutland" kind of battle/tier.

 

T4 Seydlitz vs. Queen Mary / König vs. Iron Duke / etc. 

 

True but people whine about Arkansas not having AA in her original form.

 

That could be arranged when both sides are implemented. Of course in a much smaller scale for obvious reasons

[1MajorKoenig]

Yeeeeeaaaaahhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Nassau AND Kaiser will bei Part of the tree and it will be released 2016!!!!

 

WG you made my day!!!

[Getzamatic]

Where did you learn this?

[1MajorKoenig]

It is a teaser "2016" when you open the Client.