Something is seriously broken with AP shells hitting cruisers

[_DQ_]

Its happening all the time. All the hits i get from battleships are citadel hits. Alignement or range doesnt matter. The case above was not a single salvo. It was 5 or 4 salvos, but all the hits no matter from how far, no matter my angle were citadel hits. This fkin happens all the time when im  in pensacola or myoko. Pure crap.

[IamTroublemaker]

All those 7 hits cant be citadels, it takes 3 citadel hits to destroy T7 or T8 cruiser.

 

You cannot show your broadside and expect not to get citadelled, you also cannot expect just to sail straight and not get hit, as you said from any range. You need to try avoiding salvos instead of just looking at them and remember, battleships are a COUNTER for cruisers.

[_DQ_]

I didnt show broadside. All those hits happaned while i was angled almost perfectly in line with incoming shots. All those hits were just one or two from the salovos that didnt miss me completely while i was evading them. But its just pointless to fight battleships in cruisers,

[Takeda92]

I didnt show broadside. All those hits happaned while i was angled almost perfectly in line with incoming shots. All those hits were just one or two from the salovos that didnt miss me completely while i was evading them. But its just pointless to fight battleships in cruisers,

 

Save your breath. As long as BBs are the kings of easy mode of this game, majority of playerbase are pleased.

 

The decent and reasonable BB players that care about balance are excluded.

[valhalex]

But it happened before the little patch. When I was in my Myoko, citadels happened constantly

[dibarriono]

I didnt show broadside. All those hits happaned while i was angled almost perfectly in line with incoming shots. All those hits were just one or two from the salovos that didnt miss me completely while i was evading them. But its just pointless to fight battleships in cruisers,

It is not the task of a cruiser to fight battleships.

[IamTroublemaker]

I didnt show broadside. All those hits happaned while i was angled almost perfectly in line with incoming shots. All those hits were just one or two from the salovos that didnt miss me completely while i was evading them. But its just pointless to fight battleships in cruisers,

 

It's not pointless, but if you want to fight another battleship, you either need some cover, or another battleship with you so he gets focused instead of you.

I find it quite hard to believe that you got hit 7 times in 2 salvos while being perfectly angled, but ok.

[_DQ_]

Believe me. I was single salvod by a BS becouse i gave them broadside. My fault. But i learnt and adapted.

Im not saying a lonely cruiser should be able to fight a BS. But earlier a skillful sailing could mitigate part of the incoming damage. Not anymore. I got hit by i guess 10% of fired shot. And all those shot hit me at big angle, but it doesnt matter now. Skill is not needed. Just spray, and even if 90% of Your shots from BS miss You are stil good. Thats bad for the game imo. Thats all.

[beercrazy]

that's an average of 4900 per shell and that's presuming that no hits where citadels and when a penetrating shell does 30% damage even if it don't citadel then you aint far off normal damage what you took

 

any chance of a replay so we can see how you where hit and where and also how many citadels you received

 

edit: just checked your stats and you don't play bb at all and while I can understand why you don't play them it would make it easier for you to understand the damage potential and how to avoid being hit and how to deal with bb if you played them for a while and found out the weak and good points about bb

I personally hate carrier play as its boring as hell but I couldn't take it any longer playing bb and cruisers and getting splatted by the carriers so I decided to play em and learnt the tips on how to deal with them

learn your counter in this game and it will help you loads and the best way to learn it is to play it

 

ps carrier play is still boring as hell and I try to avoid it

[Mister_Greek]

You dont specify what BB shot you and what was the Cruiser you were sailing....

 

410 mm guns have a lot of pen and 70 mm of armor aint gonna do crap against a Nagato from Close-Med range,even if you are angled. (Much worse if you are sailing the paper IJN CA)

If it was something less than 410 mm it can still pen you but you require some luck to be able to pen an angled CA

 

[gm3ntor]

Dude it's the Pepsicola. This ship is just shiet. It definitely doesn't belong on tier 7. I do believe that even a St. Louis can take it down in no time with AP shells.

No matter what my angle was, zig-zagging constantly that's what happened. 2 shots from Izumo, 2 from Amagi. *BANG* down. This ship doesn't even worth even 5 mins of my time in every battle. I'll let it just rust in my port till it fking sinks.

[Aerroon]

I didnt show broadside. All those hits happaned while i was angled almost perfectly in line with incoming shots. All those hits were just one or two from the salovos that didnt miss me completely while i was evading them. But its just pointless to fight battleships in cruisers,

 

You do know that something like an Iowa can be citadelled by a Yamato head on, right? Why do you expect your flimsy cruiser armor is going to save you from that?

[je1419]

Not that I know, but maybe someone can confirm or deny.

It feels to me that CA gets citadeled very easy from BB at longer distance (say 14+ km?), no matter how you angle your CA. My gut feeling is that it's because the penetration comes from above and not from the side. This has to do with the shell arc at longer distances.
I have also experienced this the other way, when I close in on the BB (if I can) at shorter distances (say less than 9km?) the BB has very hard to citadel the CA. It can do damage alright, but it will overpen alot and you will survive longer which in turn leads to you dealing more damage.

At medium distance (guessing 9-14 km) you absolute must angle your CA, it will save your citadel. Period.

[Admiral_noodle]

Not that I know, but maybe someone can confirm or deny.

It feels to me that CA gets citadeled very easy from BB at longer distance (say 14+ km?), no matter how you angle your CA. My gut feeling is that it's because the penetration comes from above and not from the side. This has to do with the shell arc at longer distances.

I have also experienced this the other way, when I close in on the BB (if I can) at shorter distances (say less than 9km?) the BB has very hard to citadel the CA. It can do damage alright, but it will overpen alot and you will survive longer which in turn leads to you dealing more damage.

At medium distance (guessing 9-14 km) you absolute must angle your CA, it will save your citadel. Period.

 

This is probably how it "should" work and why cruisers generally tried to avoid engaging BBs on the ocean. Plunging fire should wreck a cruiser but at very close range the shells will be more likely to overpen. Will be interesting to see how this pans out in game. BBs have to get lucky to hit you at long range in the first place. Angling is important at medium range - if you manage to get close you did quite well but then BB secondaries can make a mess of you as well as main battery

[Picard12]

 

Save your breath. As long as BBs are the kings of easy mode of this game, majority of playerbase are pleased.

 

The decent and reasonable BB players that care about balance are excluded.

That's wrong in many ways, actually. Maybe I should refresh your memory, Wargaming decided for a rock-paper-scissors-system for World of Warships: Battleships counter Cruisers, Cruisers counter Destroyers, Destroyer counter Battleships/Carriers, Carriers counter Battleships. That means a cruiser should not be able to defeat a Battleship in a direct 1v1, as much as a Destroyer should not defeat a Cruiser in a direct 1v1. That is the balance of this game. 30 seconds reload time and horrible dispersion at times make Battleships very RNG-dependant, at times, and definitely not too easy. You do have to train your aim quite well, afterall you have to hit every single salvo or you will get punished alot for the 30 seconds of your reload. Put that together with angling and timing with showing your broadside and you surely don't have a class that would be considered 'easy-mode'. Some people apparently want cruisers to be able to fight Battleships head on, which would simply tip the balance, though, and make Cruisers an overpowered class, pushing away all others in return. Do you want to play World of Cruisers? We've seen a small example of that in the week where Battleship AP was broken, and it was not good.

[Orkel2]

 

Save your breath. As long as BBs are the kings of easy mode of this game, majority of playerbase are pleased.

 

The decent and reasonable BB players that care about balance are excluded.

 

Rock-paper-scissors. Battleships should be able to kill cruisers just as easily as cruisers can kill destroyers, that is pretty easily. The things that are the enemies of battleships, are torpedoes, planes, and big guns from other battleships. A lot of cruisers get torpedoes.

[Takeda92]

Can a destroyer really counter a battleships? A carrier can counter a battleship, but can it counter them if 2-3 battleships sail close together?

A battleship has the potential (and I have to emphasize the potential part) to counter all the other classes while being threatened the least by them. I'm talking about high tiers here, and I'm bringing this up from what the devs are trying to say about the roles of ships around high tiers. Battleships are the main damage dealer that the game revolves around, while carriers are limited to the few that can master them (and even that is being limited patch after patch. Why should they increase the skill needed by carriers when battleships are much easier to play.. they are the only class that don't even get one-shotted. Obviously Midway is OP but that's about it in current patch). Destroyers and cruisers are there just for support. The bad ones are xp pinata early game so battleships can farm the damage, while the good players stay late game and make sure to keep the BBs and CVs safe. If they succeed, their ally BBs and CVs will destroy the enemy. If they fail, they get destroyed. That's your rock-paper-scissor.

My point is: that's fine if that's how they want the game to be played. Some people like playing support and if they get rewarded for it, then even better. But don't tell me that BBs are not at the top of the food chain and that torpedoes, destroyers or even carriers can counter BBs as easily as battleships counter cruisers.. at high tiers.

 

Obviously, at low tiers you can say there's some kind of rick-paper-scissor and that battleships (the whole 2 or 3 tiers of them at that low tier) are countered effectively by destroyers and carriers.

[beercrazy]

Can a destroyer really counter a battleships? A carrier can counter a battleship, but can it counter them if 2-3 battleships sail close together?

A battleship has the potential (and I have to emphasize the potential part) to counter all the other classes while being threatened the least by them. I'm talking about high tiers here, and I'm bringing this up from what the devs are trying to say about the roles of ships around high tiers. Battleships are the main damage dealer that the game revolves around, while carriers are limited to the few that can master them (and even that is being limited patch after patch. Why should they increase the skill needed by carriers when battleships are much easier to play.. they are the only class that don't even get one-shotted. Obviously Midway is OP but that's about it in current patch). Destroyers and cruisers are there just for support. The bad ones are xp pinata early game so battleships can farm the damage, while the good players stay late game and make sure to keep the BBs and CVs safe. If they succeed, their ally BBs and CVs will destroy the enemy. If they fail, they get destroyed. That's your rock-paper-scissor.

My point is: that's fine if that's how they want the game to be played. Some people like playing support and if they get rewarded for it, then even better. But don't tell me that BBs are not at the top of the food chain and that torpedoes, destroyers or even carriers can counter BBs as easily as battleships counter cruisers.. at high tiers.

 

Obviously, at low tiers you can say there's some kind of rick-paper-scissor and that battleships (the whole 2 or 3 tiers of them at that low tier) are countered effectively by destroyers and carriers.

 

come on pal lets be honest your a bb hater

can a cv counter a bb yup your right it can but then you moan about can a cv counter 3 bb ffs pal its not ment to same as a bb isn't ment to counter 3 cruisers at the same time

I know this isn't a perfect situation we have with dd and cv counter bb and bb counter cruiser ect ect but its what we have and we need to work it to the best we can and all this bb hate wont get us anywhere same as all the cv hate will not stop wg implementing cv in the game

 

 

look at what happened when bb ap got nerfed to high heaven in the last week and then very few people played bb the cv had nothing to splat so they stopped playing and the dd hated trying to kill cruisers which at the end of the day are ment to kill dd so we had a game of world of cruisers and I actualy had a game where it was 1 bb on enemy and all the rest was cruisers on both teams

 

 

[MarcusFuriusCamillus]

Can a destroyer really counter a battleships? A carrier can counter a battleship, but can it counter them if 2-3 battleships sail close together?

A battleship has the potential (and I have to emphasize the potential part) to counter all the other classes while being threatened the least by them. I'm talking about high tiers here, and I'm bringing this up from what the devs are trying to say about the roles of ships around high tiers. Battleships are the main damage dealer that the game revolves around, while carriers are limited to the few that can master them (and even that is being limited patch after patch. Why should they increase the skill needed by carriers when battleships are much easier to play.. they are the only class that don't even get one-shotted. Obviously Midway is OP but that's about it in current patch). Destroyers and cruisers are there just for support. The bad ones are xp pinata early game so battleships can farm the damage, while the good players stay late game and make sure to keep the BBs and CVs safe. If they succeed, their ally BBs and CVs will destroy the enemy. If they fail, they get destroyed. That's your rock-paper-scissor.

My point is: that's fine if that's how they want the game to be played. Some people like playing support and if they get rewarded for it, then even better. But don't tell me that BBs are not at the top of the food chain and that torpedoes, destroyers or even carriers can counter BBs as easily as battleships counter cruisers.. at high tiers.

 

Obviously, at low tiers you can say there's some kind of rick-paper-scissor and that battleships (the whole 2 or 3 tiers of them at that low tier) are countered effectively by destroyers and carriers.

Cruisers can basically dodge entire salvoes as long as they keep their distance, I can toss a spread at a BB up close and he'll eat it whole without having a chance.

BBs are countered by teamwork, Just like every other class in this game.

 

Besides cruisers deal more damage reliably than a BB, and a DD getting wrecked by a BB is doing something wrong.

[Takeda92]

 

come on pal lets be honest your a bb hater

can a cv counter a bb yup your right it can but then you moan about can a cv counter 3 bb ffs pal its not ment to same as a bb isn't ment to counter 3 cruisers at the same time

I know this isn't a perfect situation we have with dd and cv counter bb and bb counter cruiser ect ect but its what we have and we need to work it to the best we can and all this bb hate wont get us anywhere same as all the cv hate will not stop wg implementing cv in the game

 

 

look at what happened when bb ap got nerfed to high heaven in the last week and then very few people played bb the cv had nothing to splat so they stopped playing and the dd hated trying to kill cruisers which at the end of the day are ment to kill dd so we had a game of world of cruisers and I actualy had a game where it was 1 bb on enemy and all the rest was cruisers on both teams

 

 

 

I'll be honest, I am a hater, but not for BBs, for the players that think they should be number 1 because they are in a BB. Every time someone complain about a battleship they tell them to l2p.. yet they themselves refuse to l2p and ask for nerf to torps, carriers and HE.

 

Also, 3 cruisers might win against 1 BB, but the BB can still hit and damage the cruisers, maybe sink one. The carrier won't even gets its planes near the BBs. Also BBs weren't nerfed to "high heavens" The average damage dropped only to 3-10k and some BBs didn't notice any change in average damage. But players made such a big deal out of it. 

[LT_Nimitz]

Its happening all the time. All the hits i get from battleships are citadel hits. Alignement or range doesnt matter. The case above was not a single salvo. It was 5 or 4 salvos, but all the hits no matter from how far, no matter my angle were citadel hits. This fkin happens all the time when im  in pensacola or myoko. Pure crap.

 

You should see what happens to the Mogami when you unlock it! It will be like going with a paddle boat against The Yamato. I played mostly cruisers since Beta and has been fun. Since last updates they seems made out of paper against BBs. I don't play this game anymore as much as I did before as I am enjoying it less. The Mogami was heavily nerfed just after couple of days I had unlocked it and it took so much time to do that. Now after all the time unlocking it when I play I fund myself only playing with the Myoko. Fix the ships WG! A Tier 8 needs to feel like a superior Ship from the one of the tier before not much worse and Fix that damage done by BBs with AP as it is just wrong. One salvo with couple of citadel hit I am a goner?? Cruisers lovers with higher tiers unlocked will probably dedicate less time on this game now. I know I do.

[SomeoneYouKnow2]

I play all types of ships to some degree, but cruisers and battleships mostly. I can honestly say that.... cruisers have a VERY hard time against a competent battleship player (like me). If they are within ~17km at ANY angle depending on tier, no matter how much they maneuver, they WILL get hit eventually and often hit HARD.

 

When I'm in a battleship and see my target (cruiser) maneuver at a larger distance, I observe the target for maybe 10-15 seconds extra to get the feel for the maneuver pattern. Once I have determined the pattern and seen that the target has committed to a turn I fire my turrets one at a time, with a slight spread to cover the likely area the target will be in. And sure enough more often than not I score hits and sometimes citadels.

 

I've done this to lots of cruisers, and I've had it happen occasionally to myself when playing cruiser as well. As a cruiser if you're up against a battleship that knows what he's doing you're screwed. The short respite was with 0.5.1.0 was less than a week when you could broadside a battleship and sometimes get away with it.

 

I personally wouldn't mind seeing AP penetrations nerfed a bit when striking targets that are angling towards the incoming fire. This applies to both battleships and cruisers. Large caliber battleships (like Nagato/Colorado vs same/lower tier or Yamato vs same/lower tier) can also deliver devastating strikes at any angle towards other battleships. This is less of a problem for battleships of course since they have a larger HP pool and the repair party, but for cruisers it's devastating.

 

The only thing saving cruisers right now is the general ineptitude of the majority of battleship players up to mid tiers.....

[OVanBruce]

BBs on higher tiers feel like cruisers on steroids: They are agile, they have the same turning circles than some cruisers. And this is while having much more HP and armor.

 

But yeah, most BB skippers are mouthbreathers so they keep asking for more and more on each patch. Meanwhile the good BB players enjoy the party at higher tiers on a CV less environment.

[red_eye1980]

I just wish they brought it back to prior 0.5.1. As I said in another thread, I got killed single salvo in a CA from pretty much max health 3 out of 4 battles yesterday (only played 4, picked up ijn dds after that) . That would happen very rarely before 0.5.1 even when showing broadside. Citadelled yes but not killed by a single salvo. and 3 out of 4 battles? come on

[Cronos]

 

I'll be honest, I am a hater, but not for BBs, for the players that think they should be number 1 because they are in a BB. Every time someone complain about a battleship they tell them to l2p.. yet they themselves refuse to l2p and ask for nerf to torps, carriers and HE.

 

Also, 3 cruisers might win against 1 BB, but the BB can still hit and damage the cruisers, maybe sink one. The carrier won't even gets its planes near the BBs. Also BBs weren't nerfed to "high heavens" The average damage dropped only to 3-10k and some BBs didn't notice any change in average damage. But players made such a big deal out of it. 

this

 

I'm just sobbing here in my mid tier CV :'(