Aircraft Carrier consumable: Defensive AA Fire (On Tier 9/10 CVs)

[GerryHYH]

Hello all,

 

I did play a fair amount of CV games (including Tier 10). I welcome the CV nerfs, as my average earnings per CV game were 600k+ credits (very good games 950k+ !). 

 

That being said, the only buff I strongly believe CV should get, is the Defensive AA ability (which is also realistic considering the amount of AA guns they possess - especially from Tier 7 onwards). 

 

This will discourage the standard, boring, brainless CV vs CV rush. Whichever CV manage to rush the other down successfully in the 1st wave tends to win map control... which normally wins the game.

 

This will hopefully encourage the carriers to use their planes more strategically, i.e. spread out their planes and scout for the team rather than just horde rush the opponent's CV. 

 

Your thoughts? 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT - Counter argument:

 

 

If you give that ability to carriers then i want it for battleships as well.

 

Jax, as we speak, out of your 336 games, you have 0 game as a CV...  As a battleship, I understand your hatred on carriers but it clearly shows you don't understand CV gameplay - defensive AA fire will free up the fighter to escort, protect other ships, scout destroyers or incoming torpedoes or intercept planes, rather than just hovering above my own CV 24/7 Jax.

 

Thing is, battleships suppose to travel as a group (not lemin train style, but as in 2s or 3s), hence you have cruisers escorting you.

 

In a public game, you cannot expect a cruiser to sit around at the back shooting planes unless it's rank or division premade. 

 

As mentioned above, this frees up the fighter/planes, which encourage them to roam and scout - battleships are slow enough, and making the wrong decision to travel to the wrong place (no enemies at that location) can be very costly and time consuming, will take you 4-6 minutes to readjust your position... which mean you're pretty much out of the game. Getting fighter intel on where you travelling helps battleships. 

 

 

 

I want the carrier player to spread out their air squads to scout the map for everyone. This is particularly beneficial to Battleships, so you know where to travel - otherwise it will take forever to readjust your position and you'll be out of the fight since your travelling time is sooo slow.  

[Comrad_StaIin]

yes I want that !

now I can use my CV as AA platform when I'm  out of planes

[Aerroon]

Yes, been saying this for a long time. This would stop the carrier snipes that always happen at the start. Right now with the way fighters can "taunt" each other you don't have anything to defend yourself with. Defensive fire would help them immensely.

[Ascender]

I suggested exactly this at one point during closed beta and I was boo'd by everyone chances of implementation: 0

 

Even though it would solve a lot of problems, I even think it would make high-tier fighter builds more viable.

[praetor_jax]

If you give that ability to carriers then i want it for battleships as well.

 

Edit: OP calls this a counter argument, but its not, its a yap on an idea i dont agree with.

I will also note here that it was not me who tried to turn this into a CV-players vs BB-players brawl.

[Ascender]

If you give that ability to carriers then i want it for battleships as well.

 

If you want to grab at straws like that I wouldn't mind getting battleship armor on carriers as well then. If a cruiser covers a battleship he's in the battle, if he's covering a carrier he's twiddling his thumbs wondering if enemy planes will ever come by - and that is part of the problem. A battleship has far better turning performance than carriers, has far better armor (particularly against torpedoes), far more health, the ability to heal itself, and generally also better AA. You don't need this on battleships.

[TheDivineComedy]

Yes YES better would be total control over secondary weapons  

[gorgutzer]

No ty.U already have ur figthers for defence and u are forced to have always figthers.

[praetor_jax]

 

If you want to grab at straws like that I wouldn't mind getting battleship armor on carriers as well then. If a cruiser covers a battleship he's in the battle, if he's covering a carrier he's twiddling his thumbs wondering if enemy planes will ever come by - and that is part of the problem. A battleship has far better turning performance than carriers, has far better armor (particularly against torpedoes), far more health, the ability to heal itself, and generally also better AA. You don't need this on battleships.

Now you re being silly.

 

Srsly, you have fighters. Also is it really a good idea to make CV impervious to the only weapon that can harm them before their own team dies?

 

On the other hand we should remember that not only every ship with dual purpose guns can increase their AA-output but also that every ship can perform emergency repairs while in action as well as lay down a smokescreen.

Just give every consumable to every ship.

 

[Eternus_Damnatio]

I think it's a good idea as the op states it would make a cv rush more costly.

And make the game more strategic.

[gorgutzer]

This is senseless cuz if a cv can already defend himself alone he wouldnt need a completly fleet to protect him so no teamplay... where is the teamplay there......

[GerryHYH]

If you give that ability to carriers then i want it for battleships as well.

 

Jax, as we speak, out of your 336 games, you have 0 game as a CV... As a battleship, I understand your hatred on carriers but it clearly shows you don't understand CV gameplay - defensive AA fire will free up the fighter to escort, protect other ships, scout destroyers or incoming torpedoes or intercept planes, rather than just hovering above my own CV 24/7 Jax.

 

Thing is, battleships suppose to travel as a group (not lemin train style, but as in 2s or 3s), hence you have cruisers escorting you.

 

In a public game, you cannot expect a cruiser to sit around at the back shooting planes unless it's rank or division premade. 

 

As mentioned above, this frees up the fighter/planes, which encourage them to roam and scout - battleships are slow enough, and making the wrong decision to travel to the wrong place (no enemies at that location) can be very costly and time consuming, will take you 4-6 minutes to readjust your position... which mean you're pretty much out of the game. Getting fighter intel on where you travelling helps battleships. 

 

 

[praetor_jax]

 

Jax, as we speak, out of your 336 games, you have 0 game as a CV... As a battleship, I understand your hatred on carriers but it clearly shows you don't understand CV gameplay - defensive AA fire will free up the fighter to escort, protect other ships, scout destroyers or incoming torpedoes or intercept planes, rather than just hovering above my own CV 24/7 Jax.

 

Thing is, battleships suppose to travel as a group (not lemin train style, but as in 2s or 3s), hence you have cruisers escorting you.

 

In a public game, you cannot expect a cruiser to sit around at the back shooting planes unless it's rank or division premade. 

 

 

 

I ve played CV in CBT and decided they re not my turf (bad at rts etc) and i dont hate CV. To completely fend of an airstrike there are currently two means in this game: use defensive fire (the consumable) or a fighter squadron.

Normal defensive fire can only really weaken the aircraft when they spend way too much time near ships - the attack still works.

Of course i know mostly the targets perspective only - the only two things that ever save me from significant damage from planes are cruiser with active AAA or fighter squadrons.

*or the CV messing up his aim of course.

 

You cant give CV both active defenses against aircraft because then they become next to immune to them.

I dont believe that defending yourself properly means to have your fighters camp your own ship. Maybe you re not using them properly.

[gorgutzer]

 

I ve played CV in CBT and decided they re not my turf (bad at rts etc) and i dont hate CV. To completely fend of an airstrike there are currently two means in this game: use defensive fire (the consumable) or a fighter squadron.

Normal defensive fire can only really weaken the aircraft when they spend way too much time near ships - the attack still works.

Of course i know mostly the targets perspective only - the only two things that ever save me from significant damage from planes are cruiser with active AAA or fighter squadrons.

*or the CV messing up his aim of course.

 

You cant give CV both active defenses against aircraft because then they become next to immune to them.

I dont believe that defending yourself properly means to have your fighters camp your own ship. Maybe you re not using them properly.

 

+1

[RogDodgeUK]

moved to In-Game ships / Carriers

[GerryHYH]

Hi Jax, 

 

Some very fair points you made. But this won't make carriers immune to other CVs, as it's a consumable with time limit, it will run out.

 

The defensive AA fire is to counter 1st horde wave. So rather then having 6 plane squadrons all horde rush into 1 CV (which is very standard from Tier 9/10 game), I want the carrier player to spread out their air squads to scout the map for everyone. This is particularly beneficial to Battleships, so you know where to travel - otherwise it will take forever to readjust your position and you'll be out of the fight since your travelling time is sooo slow.  

[Noobsplatter]

If you give that ability to carriers then i want it for battleships as well.

 

Then I want it for my DD`s so I can lay waste to anything that dares scout me when I am hunting your battleships

[GerryHYH]

 

Then I want it for my DD`s so I can lay waste to anything that dares scout me when I am hunting your battleships

 

We have smoke screen! And US DD (with upgraded Hulls) have defensive fire already!  

[bismark121]

 

I ve played CV in CBT and decided they re not my turf (bad at rts etc) and i dont hate CV. To completely fend of an airstrike there are currently two means in this game: use defensive fire (the consumable) or a fighter squadron.

Normal defensive fire can only really weaken the aircraft when they spend way too much time near ships - the attack still works.

Of course i know mostly the targets perspective only - the only two things that ever save me from significant damage from planes are cruiser with active AAA or fighter squadrons.

*or the CV messing up his aim of course.

 

You cant give CV both active defenses against aircraft because then they become next to immune to them.

I dont believe that defending yourself properly means to have your fighters camp your own ship. Maybe you re not using them properly.

 

so you have no idea what it's like to play them after closed beta and only 6 TOTAL GAMES IN A CV even in closed beta, you have no bloody idea what it's like so keep you're petty bb idiocy out of this thread 

[praetor_jax]

 

so you have no idea what it's like to play them after closed beta and only 6 TOTAL GAMES IN A CV even in closed beta, you have no bloody idea what it's like so keep you're petty bb idiocy out of this thread 

 

Wow, so salty.

 

Did i say i know how to play CV? I said i know that any active ability that reduces the accuracy of an airstrike makes said airstrike a joke that does no damage and that i dont think any class should have both abilities.

[SkybuckFlying]

This is a very stupid and dumb idea. This would make carriers indestructable versus planes. I am a carrier player myself. Carriers already have very strong anti air defense. This buff for the CVs are definetly not needed. At least not on USA/USN side... don't know about japanse... but probably there also not.

 

Think about this... if game ends up being cv vs cv... it would pretty much be a draw game. The 19 people who voted "yes" are funny enough clueless ! ;) =D

[AgarwaenME]

 

Wow, so salty.

 

Did i say i know how to play CV? I said i know that any active ability that reduces the accuracy of an airstrike makes said airstrike a joke that does no damage and that i dont think any class should have both abilities.

 

You do realise that CAs have both fighters and defensive fire? And quite a few BBs can also field a float plane fighter?

[praetor_jax]

Does the catapult fighter reduce accuracy of the aircraft it attacks?

[X_Jester_X]

Hi all,

 

GerryHYH this is actually a really good discussion. I see the point out of CV sight , but i really think that this should be solved differently to keep the teamplay going.

This is actually a first for me to agree with Gorgutzer -  - and it is actually a first time me seeing him adressing whats really needed, the Teamplay that i always adressed .

 

The problem is in randoms that loads of people have not learned the full capability and TASKS of their ships yet. I see this a LOT with the CAs who just dont care and a lot of CVs who just go to the edge "glitching" even now after the patch, although they should stay near the fleet or at least a CA. Even saw Gorgutzer doing it again against Papedipupi yesterday .

 

Gameplay has changed quite a bit in the last months and it really shows how much more Teamplay is important - something we have been doing from the beginning on.

 

Loads of people bragged about me staying in the back protecting my CV a lot in the beginning doing my Job ... calling me a lot of things and for my CV "carrying" me and especially Papedipupi all the time. Papedipupi said it though the whole time - it is teamplay - today even more so than before .... even a US destroyer can help now in the beginning with that Task.

 

I mean you can really see when someone tries to "snipe" a CV when you see no enemy planes in the beginning or go directly flying to the CV. People often loose the overall map awareness (lacking teamplay) and go after their goals. If a CV does its job right, then he spreads his planes in the beginning anyways to scout for intel (especially locating DDs). When they do that CAs need to tone their their awareness and keep an eye on the situation to help with the AA where they can to all ships ... especially US CAs ... or hunt the DDs - my point of view. Even Jap cruisers can do a descent job at this. I am playing them currently and it works fine, although i heard loads of people bragging that their useless at AA ....

 

I really think WG needs to do more in terms of getting teamplay achievements and tasks going that would really help with this issue. I know their working on it and i am anxious on what they will implement on that end.

 

 

 

[Spellfire40]

If you give any more def fire out remove the reserves for CV too and give them unlimited planes.  To Snipe you lose time and when it dont work you pretty much gave the enemy CV enogh time to do damage to other ships to have an impact. Also with the AA diference between US and IJN this would be another make US invencible vs taking fewer Hits in IJN Buff.