5.1 nerf to high tier USN CV

[rafparis]

 US torpedo planes' launch zone for manual mode has been increased on the attack circle. This distance increases with the carrier's tier and plane speed. Due to this change, torpedo spreads are now wider. It will be harder to attack the enemy by dropping torpedoes right under the broadside of their ship. This change will most noticeably affect higher tier ships

Taken from 5.1 patchnotes from the US server (should be soon on EU).

Soooo... the higher the tier, the furthest you will drop your torps.... as if they werent enough easy to slip through now. The worst thing is the parallel spread of the torps, any ship except BB and CV can easily turn at the last moment and pass between torps, recievieng 0 dmg, or at most eating one torp...

Nerf everything, because L2P is too difficult for certain peoples... I was too in the camp of "nerf CVs", but after 2000 battles, and playing them too, i can tell you it;s not "easy mode" and "you just have to click". (to tier 8 anyway).

[Kirasa]

Taken from 5.1 patchnotes from the US server (should be soon on EU).

Soooo... the higher the tier, the furthest you will drop your torps.... as if they werent enough easy to slip through now. The worst thing is the parallel spread of the torps, any ship except BB and CV can easily turn at the last moment and pass between torps, recievieng 0 dmg, or at most eating one torp...

Nerf everything, because L2P is too difficult for certain peoples... I was too in the camp of "nerf CVs", but after 2000 battles, and playing them too, i can tell you it;s not "easy mode" and "you just have to click". (to tier 8 anyway).

 

That's the much needed and wanted nerf for Midway, even requested by CV players.

[Siegwald]

OP is butthurt much I suppose?

[IamTroublemaker]

CVs at high tiers have highest avg dmg, highest avg xp, highest k/d ratio afaik, so yeah, at least a slight nerf was needed imo

[Hauptbahnhof]

CVs at high tiers have highest avg dmg, highest avg xp, highest k/d ratio afaik, so yeah, at least a slight nerf was needed imo

 

Highest Damage is because they play average much longer each match ( due to surviving longer ). If a CV survive average 15min and DD survive 7.5min the CV need to do 2x the damage to be able to get the same XP over time played.

 

Highest K/D ratio is intended I am sure. CVs should not be on the frontlines getting shot at... It's part of how they play ( just like DDs / Cruisers often take more risks then Battleships due to going in for caps, and thus have worse K/D ratios generally speaking ).

 

Highest Average XP is due to the stupid XP rewards for planes shot down ( 40 planes = same xp as killing a Carrier ), so it rewards high tiers and Carriers much much more then AA ships. Especially after the forced matchmaking where you always get CVs on both teams.

 

But I guess they intend to reduce high tier Carriers to only being able to shoot down each-others planes now and get all XP from that?

 

 

 

[Gatt]

It will be harder to drop torps right under the broadside of the (enemy) ship

 

 

You dont say! How long time did it took to WG to understand that? They must have hired a rocket scientist at WG.

[Echelon2k]

 

Highest Damage is because they play average much longer each match ( due to surviving longer ). If a CV survive average 15min and DD survive 7.5min the CV need to do 2x the damage to be able to get the same XP over time played.

 

Highest K/D ratio is intended I am sure. CVs should not be on the frontlines getting shot at... It's part of how they play ( just like DDs / Cruisers often take more risks then Battleships due to going in for caps, and thus have worse K/D ratios generally speaking ).

 

Highest Average XP is due to the stupid XP rewards for planes shot down ( 40 planes = same xp as killing a Carrier ), so it rewards high tiers and Carriers much much more then AA ships. Especially after the forced matchmaking where you always get CVs on both teams.

 

But I guess they intend to reduce high tier Carriers to only being able to shoot down each-others planes now and get all XP from that?

 

 

Almost all of that is true. Carriers should - on average - do better XP and creditwise than the other classes BUT it should require alot of skill and situational awareness to do that. And this change will only really affect the jetplanes imo. So in time we will see good players adapt and drop from two directions instead of grouping their planes together and just annihalte a BB by dropping next to them in a near unavoidable manner.

[HatsuzukiKaiNi]

If a battleship evades all but one torpedo from a Midway then the Midway messed the drop up.

[Mister_Greek]

Yes,CV's are intented to perform better than the rest of the classes,especially on Avg Dmg and Exp but not by that much.

 

Midway (and Essex to a lesser extent) clearly outperforms the IJN counterpart.Basically they outperform anything,even by WG standards.

 

As Kirasa said,that nerf was requested by many CV players especially after the recent IJN CV nerf.

 

Whoever thought that the USN CV will get away with that is clearly delusional.

 

I expect more nerfs to USN CV in the upcoming months to tell you the truth...

 

 

 

 

[viceadmiral123]

If a battleship evades all but one torpedo from a Midway then the Midway messed the drop up.

 

Battleships don't evade torpedoes. Midway drops slightly off target to play with your nerves.  Midway doesn't miss. Midway always wins. Keep the nerfs coming until average players with t8 premiums stop losing money per game against t10 carriers. Maybe in 6-7 more patches.

[Klimons]

This is a nerf to all USN CVs, not just Essex and Midway. Lexington doesnt have fast TBs in the first place, and with bigger drop circle it will be easy to avoid most torps ... And good luck hitting a cruiser with low-mid tier TBs.

[Kirasa]

This is a nerf to all USN CVs, not just Essex and Midway. Lexington doesnt have fast TBs in the first place, and with bigger drop circle it will be easy to avoid most torps ... And good luck hitting a cruiser with low-mid tier TBs.

 

Since her planes are slow you won't see much of a change...

[Klimons]

 

Since her planes are slow you won't see much of a change...

 

I hope not, will see when 5.1 goes live Fighter vs fighter gameplay doesnt look good either ... I think lowering speed of high tier bombers to ~130 knots would be better.

[Andreevson]

CVs at high tiers have highest avg dmg, highest avg xp, highest k/d ratio afaik, so yeah, at least a slight nerf was needed imo

 

Slight is understating it. A solid nerf was needed.

 

Now we only need to (slightly) buff the higher tier cruisers and DDs and we may have a balance of sorts.

[rafparis]

welp, the problem of USN carriers is only that at tier 9&10 you get two torpedo bombers, then you can make an anvill attack, guaranteing one full salvo eaten almost everytime.

For lower tier CVs, its much more difficult to land a spread from a single TB, they are easily avoiden.

[anonym_gCiyicUsNYGl]

Lmao the skillway will NEVER be nerfed this year.

 

keep dreaming everyone and yes, i dislike the skillway a lot.

[Takeda92]

They said Lexy will get buffed in 0.5.2 anyway and same patch all carrier torpedoes will be nerfed to be more skill requiring.

[sherasign]

#Hakuryu4laif

[Cronos]

Easy step to balance CVs without touching them:

 

Buff aircraft kill reward +100%

 

See how everyone starts playing in a team

 

Profit 

 

 

 

Or they need to redo the whole CV mechanic from scratch  - i dont think that this patch will change anything, because smart ppl already avoided TBs and dumb ppl will not be saved by this change. As a soon midway captain (just 5mill credits more to grind) i dont give 2 fuks about it

[Ishiro32]

welp, the problem of USN carriers is only that at tier 9&10 you get two torpedo bombers, then you can make an anvill attack, guaranteing one full salvo eaten almost everytime.

For lower tier CVs, its much more difficult to land a spread from a single TB, they are easily avoiden.

 

There is one big issue with tier IX and X carriers. Massive power spike.

 

Thing people forget is that plane speed is one of the most important characteristic of each carrier. It increases the number of runs you can make in one game, it decreases the time you have to be in heavy AAA, it makes positioning for the run much much easier and your drops are faster since circles were always the same radius. To sum up, your planes are more deadly and are easier to use. This was the reason why Saipan in Beta was most OP carrier in game, even though it had paper planes. This is also the reason why you have suddenly so many "pro" midway players. 

 

The biggest asset midway has is not her second TB wing, but huge TB speed buff it receives. Granted you need to increase speed to scale it to bigger maps, but this is the reason why people call her skillway. Fast TBs are simply too easy to use and perform well. 

 

Change mentioned should nerf slighly midway and essex while not impacting lower tiers at all.

I do expect some more changes to carriers to come with 0.5.2 

[Yamato_Musashi]

I think the changes aren't needed at all and will try to explain my opinion...

 

- I played a lot Izumo in past weeks (means many Essex and a few Midways) and yes, sometimes they nearly wrecked me... craphappens. BUT: in this situations there were NO cruiser by me, NO fighters and I have NO AA upgrades... if there was just a cruiser or fighter I got from 4 - 6 hits. Means around 25k - 30k. And more then 3 minutes till next attack. Dont seems much damage to me, especially because I HAVEN'T IMPROVED AA. And this is the point: I normally look at my opponents and allied ships looking for their AA. I NEVER saw a Yamato or Montana with improved AA. They all had stock values... so if you guess they are OP why you don't take some Upgrades? Imo 2 BB's close to each other with improved AA will wreck even Essex or Midway planes... too many players think they have to survive and air strike in solo. But if planes get you without any AA support, its not the mistake of the enemy carrier, instead he chose the "right" target... This about BB playing...

 

- Another point is that: now try to get a DD... with wider circle... Imo carrier wont attack DDs anymore... but I haven't enough experience on it...

- Last but not least: the patch notes not only nerved US CVs, but IJN as well. They will have slower torps, that means they will do MUCH less damage (more time for avoiding)... try to get a destroyer now with IJN... looks impossible to me, now even cruiser are at same speed level. On the other side weaker IJN will mean you have need weaker US carrier (again)...

 

Finally I will try to compare the actual situation to the initial one (I guess it was at release). There were at least 2 cruisers protecting carriers and every BB and cruiser had AA-Upgrades... now its right the other way... really wondering why CV performs better?

Another point: I played a lot Iwaki: I would say something like 80% (or even more) of CVs are using autodrop... and there are even Tier 7 or 9 using it... they do nearly no damage... I'm trying to explain the situation for "new" carriers... very difficult for them. The guys that are wrecking enemy BBs are the experienced ones. But they have all A LOT OF experience. So this will only leading to less CV players imo.

 

And about the "power spike": I dont now if its right, but I think excellent carriers (tier X) are dealing around 140k average damage. On other hand the average damage of excellent BBs (at tier X) should be around 110-120k). But in one fight there is mostly only 1 carrier and at least 4 BBs. Weaker CVs will mean nobody cares about losing a carrier and this isn't how the game should work I guess...

 

... THX for reading... 

 

UPDATE:

Just had a fight yesterday in Izumo with my mate in Taiho. Situation: Taiho Ranger on our side, Taiho Hiriu on other side. We had 3 fighters, enemy with 5 fighter squadrons. My Teammate managed to deal around 220k damage... its his fault or the fault of the other carriers? 

[Hauptbahnhof]

Easy step to balance CVs without touching them:

 

Buff aircraft kill reward +100%

 

See how carriers now get even more inflated XP since they kill 3-5 times as many planes as other ships do

 

Profit

 

Fixed it for you.

[Unintentional_submarine]

 

Fixed it for you.

 

Yup. Usually carriers kill the most planes for a number of reasons. They are quite often targeted themselves (at a relative higher frequency than other ships), and at the high tiers their AA is actually very good (ok Haku only has acceptable AA, but it still kills a fair few planes). They have fighters, which are better than AA since they can dictate when to engage. It isn't uncommon for T8+ carriers to kill 40-50 enemy planes, it is however not that common for battleships or cruisers doing the same (they certainly can of course, we have most likely all managed to do it at least a few times). I would say that in 90% of the games, carriers sit at the top of the plane kills.

 

Admittedly, if people began to work together more, this would probably drop a bit, but carriers would still be the ones to benefit the most.

 

Plane kill benefits are not a suitable throttle for this. Besides, a Midway contains more than 3 times her own worth in XP in planes. That's a lot.

[viceadmiral123]

inb4 everyone keeps crying for CV nerf after the nerf

[Shaka_D]

Great change to the torp drop and spread. Just yesterday my colorado was nuked by USN torp planes who literally dropped the torps right off my port side giving me zero chance to even try turn. The torps travelled for 2 seconds and then hit. This range was way too short so it desperately needed an adjustment and I'm very glad WG have changed it for 5.1