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Crysantos

Statistics galore - State of WoWS (episode #4 - ze Germans / Russians)

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[MUMMY]
[MUMMY]
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Annother enjoyable read, tx very much.

It will be interesting to see what influence more people playing the more uncommon ships has - it's early days.

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[PRAVD]
Weekend Tester
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Nice analysis. 

 

Btw, why the new German and Russian tier 1,2 3 and showing 5 times more players than USN and IJN, even double the number of players compared to IJN and USN combined? It doesn't make sense to me.

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[KRAKN]
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thanks for this crysantos......i hope some time to play together....im wating to see you in battles.

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[-AWF-]
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Nice analysis. 

 

Btw, why the new German and Russian tier 1,2 3 and showing 5 times more players than USN and IJN, even double the number of players compared to IJN and USN combined? It doesn't make sense to me.

 

Nice analysis. 

 

Btw, why the new German and Russian tier 1,2 3 and showing 5 times more players than USN and IJN, even double the number of players compared to IJN and USN combined? It doesn't make sense to me.

 

It is new players since the 24/10 to the 31/10.

 

 

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[ST-EU]
Supertest Coordinator, Alpha Tester
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Nice analysis. 

 

Btw, why the new German and Russian tier 1,2 3 and showing 5 times more players than USN and IJN, even double the number of players compared to IJN and USN combined? It doesn't make sense to me.

 

If it's also playerbase since the last term it is obvious that most players are already done with the low tiers of the longer existing lines and they are only played by people who like and kept them or beginners (of that line).

Contrary many people who are already done with the other lines started to play those new lines and are with that included in the "active player number".

 

As it happens that the Russian t1 is also a Cruiser it is missing out in both charts.

It would be nice to know how it performs compared to the other three t1 ships.

Looking at the link it appears to be on top above the other t1 ships with roughly 9.8k average damage and a 53-ish% WR.

However given that this values include a high number of experienced players to a probably more inexperienced playerbase of the other ships in this term that might even out in the next future when the experienced people are higher up in that line.

Edit: Same could also happen to the Hermelin as she lures inexperienced people into closing in with her low range and making them regret it afterwards.

Edited by Lightbaron

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[PRAVD]
Weekend Tester
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I see, I don't know how I missed that one, brain fart. Thanks von_Boeg and Lightbaron.

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Beta Tester
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Great summary! Thx. So basically Tier IV - Karlsruhe is the only ship worth skipping using free exp. Agree?

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Beta Tester
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Thanks for this great sum up.

Confirms my suspicion about IJN cruisers at T7-T8. US and KM cruisers need a serious buff on those tiers. Torps for US cruisers would be more than welcome :popcorn:

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[BAZI]
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Extremely poor blancing on the higher tiers.

 

The meta always indicated the strongest ships pretty precisely. People are going for Shima instead of Gearing, Zao instead of DM and Midway instead of Hakuryu, simply because these are the stronger ships for the very most of players/playstyles.

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WG Staff
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If it's also playerbase since the last term it is obvious that most players are already done with the low tiers of the longer existing lines and they are only played by people who like and kept them or beginners (of that line).

Contrary many people who are already done with the other lines started to play those new lines and are with that included in the "active player number".

 

As it happens that the Russian t1 is also a Cruiser it is missing out in both charts.

It would be nice to know how it performs compared to the other three t1 ships.

Looking at the link it appears to be on top above the other t1 ships with roughly 9.8k average damage and a 53-ish% WR.

However given that this values include a high number of experienced players to a probably more inexperienced playerbase of the other ships in this term that might even out in the next future when the experienced people are higher up in that line.

Edit: Same could also happen to the Hermelin as she lures inexperienced people into closing in with her low range and making them regret it afterwards.

 

Thanks for pointing that out, I've included it now (in between German CAs and Soviet DDs analysis).

 

In general, yes we need to take into account that a new line draws audience from inexperienced to veterans, while "older" Tier I-III ships mostly attract new players with no experience. We'll have to see how things are going to develop the next weeks but I'm pretty sure we won't see any major changes in general.

 

Great summary! Thx. So basically Tier IV - Karlsruhe is the only ship worth skipping using free exp. Agree?

 

Judging from the stats...the Yorck isn't a great grind, either. But check it out for yourself, maybe it fits your personal style - I always tell people to try things out on their own, what might not work for the majority might be your personal favorite or the opposite.

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[S0F]
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I'd like to know how many Karlsruhe players are spamming HE as the ship has the worst HE damage at tier 4 for CAs but the best AP at that tier. When I started playing the Karl I used HE a fair bit till I noticed that it had much better AP and when I almost exclusively used AP (even on BBs and DDs) my average damage went up and now sits at 31k+. Is it a coincidence that the CA with the best HE damage (Kuma) also does the best damage?

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[ROGUE]
Players
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Niceand i agree with most of what OP said but i have a single note... more players =/= automaticly best/superior ships.

For example Gearing even if has low player pool (lower then IJN) currently holds better stats yet you say shimekaze is better and stronger... I would say that the player base number is not only connected to how powerfull a ship is but also to how easy it is to use the ships potential. Ofc its easier to spam 15 torps from 10-15k range and wait for dmg then for example balance on visibility range and shoot ships while dodging shots.

For that reason i would say it is why the longer ranged torp dd's are more popular - its relative easy to be effective with it.

Its exacly like in cleaveland... the stats are very similar, yet it has 2-3x the player pool of aoba why? because an idiot can abuse the stupid fire mechanics by spamming, where if you know where cleavelands citadel is, you can hit it as easy as other cruisers.

Stats yes show that Yamato is probably stronger then Montana (well he has superior armor, higher cal by desing ect) and Midway is way OP over Hakiryu and Zao with his invisibility shooting and way shorter shell flying time is stronger then Des Moins, but i wouldnt dare to say for now that Gearing (specially with the incomming buffs if he actually needs them is the question) is inferior to Shimekaze.

 

For cruisers... i would like to see more smarter cruisers players, as from what i see currently noticed, you can see many smarter dd players, many smarter bb players, but the smart cruiser player pool is almost non existant (it was actually existant in open beta, damn in 130 ranked games i've seen like 5-10 smart cruiser player and the rest was afk yachters or idiots) dont know why cruisers currently purposly ignore dd and just chase after bb's but i wouldnt say its the class fault but its the players who dont know what they are doing.

 

There should be more information about what cruiser should do (first focus DD's and not get in 12k under broadsiding to a BB!!!!!!!!!), and maybe make the fire mechanics weaker for more HE dmg and maybe little heals on medium tiers also (so cruisers are not base alone on 2-3 fires from 1 salvo luck or 75 hits in 1 match with HE and not a single fire like i had on Aoba). 

Another way of this would be to allow tier 6+ cruisers to have both hydro-acustic and the AA active in the same time, as pre tier 6 cruisers are mostly dedicated to hunt DD's are carriers are balanced to that tier, but with later tiers carrier start to become OP (even match making is forced around them) and thus cruisers have to sacrifice the hydroacustic for AA consumable, making their DD fighting power considerably lower (and again we are stuck as bb's with equall or superior AA not having the same effective AA - forcing increased spread on enemy planes / late game carriers out of balance).

Currently adds to all these also that cruisers are fairly nimble but they lack the concealment of dd's so they are harder to play if your not vigilant (and most players in low/med tiers are afk yachters = bane of cruisers and lower player pool in higher tiers).

 

It seems that cruisers on later tiers seem to suffer of WG not able to balance carriers and that they are forced to pick 1 side role from 2 they got on tier 6+. This means isntead of allowing them to do what they did on early tiers, the long range spam dd's have free line to do it as they know cruisers will have AA consumable for 99% chances.

Edited by t0ffik1

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WG Staff
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Nice but a note to OP... more players =/= automaticly best/superior ships.

For example Gearing even if has low player pool (lower then IJN) currently holds better stats yet you say shimekaze is better and stronger... I would say that the player base number is not only connected to how powerfull a ship is but also to how easy it is to use the ships potential. Ofc its easier to spam 15 torps from 10-15k range and wait for dmg then for example balance on visibility range and shoot ships while dodging shots.

For that reason i would say it is why the longer ranged torp dd's are more popular - its relative easy to be effective with it.

Its exacly like in cleaveland... the stats are very similar, yet it has 2-3x the player pool of aoba why? because an idiot can abuse the stupid fire mechanics by spamming, where if you know where cleavelands citadel is, you can hit it as easy as other cruisers.

Stats yes show that Yamato is probably stronger then Montana (well he has superior armor, higher cal by desing ect) and Midway is way OP over Hakiryu and Zao with his invisibility shooting and way shorter shell flying time is stronger then Des Moins, but i wouldnt dare to say for now that Gearing (specially with the incomming buffs if he actually needs them is the question) is inferior to Shimekaze.

 

For cruisers... i would like to see more smarter cruisers players, as from what i see currently noticed, you can see many smarter dd players, many smarter bb players, but the smart cruiser player pool is almost non existant (it was actually existant in open beta, damn in 130 ranked games i've seen like 5-10 smart cruiser player and the rest was afk yachters or idiots) dont know why cruisers currently purposly ignore dd and just chase after bb's but i wouldnt say its the class fault but its the players who dont know what they are doing.

There should be more information about what cruiser should do (first focus DD's and not get in 12k under broadsiding to a BB!!!!!!!!!), and maybe make the fire mechanics weaker for more HE dmg and maybe little heals on medium tiers also (so cruisers are not base alone on 2-3 fires from 1 salvo luck or 75 hits in 1 match with HE and not a single fire like i had on Aoba).

Currently its just that cruisers are fairly nimble but they lack the concealment of dd's so they are harder to play if your not vigilant (and most players in low/med tiers are afk yachters = bane of cruisers and lower player pool in higher tiers).

 

Where is the Gearing stronger? The winrate is slightly higher (below 1% difference though), the XP are actually useless on TX and the damage is higher on the Shimakaze - this issue becomes more prominent if we take a look at the top 10% players, where the Gearing loses its winrate advantage over the Shimakaze (4% difference now in favor of Shimakaze), while the IJN DD manages to outclass the USN DD by even more damage than the average player (11k more damage, almost 20% more). With the current game mechanics more damage usually translates simply into better performance and higher winrate. So is the Gearing better / worse? All I can say is that right now, with the current meta of many BBs the Shimakaze is the better suited ship for that, apparently. The Gearing has its perks but its obvious that the IJN DD is more popular and performs better.

 

To be quite frank, wtf are you talking about the non-existant smart cruiser player pool? I know quite a few very decent of them and all of them are currently exhausted playing their CAs when constantly getting dunked by BBs or taken down by a defensive torp carpet of a Shimakaze. My question would be, where do you get that kind of impression, I don't see any real high Tier games on your part besides the 15x Nagato games? Sorry but I fail to see where you'd get that impression or even opinion if not even playing on that Tier to judge about the quality of players there?

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[ROGUE]
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Dmg =/= win rate as you see, so dmg isnt the only aspect to look when balancing out classes if you judge how good ship is only by dmg then your terribly wrong.

And it seems you even fail to check every stats as its 15+128 in nagato alone but well i know ppl like to look at part statistics.

Btw considering your own words... low player pool means stats can be not precise enough - yet you still claim one is much stronger then other only by jugding the notprecise stats in case of DD's... I would wait a little to see more players get them (and US dd line is harder to grind then IJN one has also affect on player pool).

 

And i dont know, maybe you know few good players in cruisers, but i know only one for now and in 128 games ranked like i said i played i saw like 5-10 good cruisers max, thats why even stopped to buy any higher tier ships, as its pointless to go further where the classes are even less balanced. Ofc in higher tiers there will be some other good players, but still i doubt by miracle i will find a gazillion of good cruiser players where i almost didnt noticed any in 700-800 games (and considering im divisioning with other iter 7's im fairly often on fuso or nagato im matched vs tier 8-9's and i still see craploads of afk yachting idiots cruisers in 10-12k range showing broadsides - hah even yesterday i managed ot 100-0 a mogami as he was afk yachting to my nagato on 12k range).

Damn i even had the "pleasure" to face Yamatos in a fuso and nagato ty to the stupid match making divisions.

And if you actually read my post better then you checked my stats (yeah i know its hard to click 2 buttons) you would actually understand what i wrote in my post and why it is that cruisers are in such heavy position currently (yes ill copy paste it to you

 

"It seems that cruisers on later tiers seem to suffer of WG not able to balance carriers and that they are forced to pick 1 side role from 2 they got on tier 6+. This means isntead of allowing them to do what they did on early tiers, the long range spam dd's have free line to do it as they know cruisers will have AA consumable for 99% chances."

 

And no for now on my NA account i didnt notice any shimekazes being op (as carriers on NA server manage to scout for them) - but i know few playes team playing is OP.

 

Edit - btw cruisers are meant to run from bb's dont you think? its enough they have better AA and DD fighitng capabalities, giving them more power would only make everyone use cruisers. I would actually see with pleasure the dmg kept (maybe less balanced around fire and more for HE dmg per shot) but have access in the same time to hydro-acustic and AA consumable and not have to choose, as making cruiser choose one side role from 2 in current state is what makes them for me feel so mediacore = no by beaing a jack of all trades like cruiser you cant be super in them all, where bb's and dd's excell in 1 type for it.

Edited by t0ffik1

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WG Staff
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Dmg =/= win rate as you see, so dmg isnt the only aspect to look when balancing out classes if you judge how good ship is only by dmg then your terribly wrong.

And it seems you even fail to check every stats as its 15+128 in nagato alone but well i know ppl like to look at part statistics.

Btw considering your own words... low player pool means stats can be not precise enough - yet you still claim one is much stronger then other only by jugding the notprecise stats in case of DD's... I would wait a little to see more players get them (and US dd line is harder to grind then IJN one has also affect on player pool).

 

And i dont know, maybe you know few good players in cruisers, but i know only one for now and in 128 games ranked like i said i played i saw like 5-10 good cruisers max, thats why even stopped to buy any higher tier ships, as its pointless to go further where the classes are even less balanced. Ofc in higher tiers there will be some other good players, but still i doubt by miracle i will find a gazillion of good cruiser players where i almost didnt noticed any in 700-800 games (and considering im divisioning with other iter 7's im fairly often on fuso or nagato im matched vs tier 8-9's and i still see craploads of afk yachting idiots cruisers in 10-12k range showing broadsides - hah even yesterday i managed ot 100-0 a mogami as he was afk yachting to my nagato on 12k range).

And if you actually read my post better then you checked my stats (yeah i know its hard to click 2 buttons) you would actually understand what i wrote in my post and why it is that cruisers are in such heavy position currently (yes ill copy paste it to you

 

"It seems that cruisers on later tiers seem to suffer of WG not able to balance carriers and that they are forced to pick 1 side role from 2 they got on tier 6+. This means isntead of allowing them to do what they did on early tiers, the long range spam dd's have free line to do it as they know cruisers will have AA consumable for 99% chances."

 

And no for now on my NA account i didnt notice any shimekazes being op (as carriers on NA server manage to scout for them) - but i know few playes team playing is OP.

 

Dude, keep it calm and nice in here. To make this short, somebody who blames the lack of skill of every CA captain for their miserable state isn't somebody I can or want to constructively discuss with - you are entitled to your opinion as everybody else, but please post it somewhere else.

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Players
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Up to the Yorck on the German line and stopped right there. The ship is atrocious turrets are slower than a BB turns like an oil tanker and the shell arc is ridiculous. To compound this the guns only ever get minimum damage from anything over 10km. And as soon as the range closes your turrets are a serious liability and modules get taken out too easy.
Konigsberg is the only ship I enjoyed from the line but still suffers from way too much module damage. And the Omaha is way better.


As for current ships the Des Moines AA is pretty poor compared to the Balti more longer range guns with low dps that don't seem to scratch t9/10 planes. Also turrets are way too weak.


Midway well just a joke right now manual drop is ridiculous as it is across all CV's. The Midway being the biggest issue though as you just send two grouped TB sqns manual drop on anything with their tight spread and it's dead or good as. No chance for any avoidance.


Shimekaze 20km wall of torp spam is just plain stupid in the context of the game.
They can spam torps further than their supposed counter the cruisers can even fire. And because of this you can end up in situations where winning is not even possible as the Shime can just skirt round capping points while spamming torps. With no chance of being spotted. And the law of averages state you will be hit sooner or later.


The Yamato can pen the Montana at pretty much any angle while only needing a small angle itself to deflect pretty much everything bar lucky hits.

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Alpha Tester
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Devs mentioned already that there won't be utter balance on tier X. Eg: they already said that IJN CA(s) will be the best, same with USN CV(s)

 

And I bet they plan to make STRONK soviet paper BBs to be the best just to enable the usual USA vs USSR cold war stuff.

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WG Staff
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To be honest, I don't have a problem with a certain imbalance within a modest scope - it's the rather big gap between ships that makes it unfair and results in a more and more one-sided meta in the long run.

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WG Staff
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btw. due to the lack of playerbase at higher Tiers I'll only add the top 10% players tomorrow, top are going to follow when we have enough data ☺

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WG Staff
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When does the stats update?

 

Sorry, got a busy weekend - I've included the top 10% stats in the first post. Enjoy - the next episode will be... when I think we need to take a look at things - not sure with the 0.5.1 armor derp and its aftermath.

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[THROW]
Supertester, Players, Sailing Hamster, Privateer
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Armor derp possibly fixed today, moaaaar stats!

 

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