Citadel - How?

[Kissyfur]

 

How to do citadel hits? 

I have been watching Ichasegame vids and other vids. So I understand the basics, where to shoot on a ship. They need to show their broadside and I need to aim for the parts under the chimney (biggest part).

Is the information is still accurate in those vids? 

 

I am playing a Wyoming and Myogi and I found it hard to citadel. Ofcourse it should be hard, but I have hardly citadel hits. I like to get better in this. The ammo I use is AP, basically always, as reloading take a huge amount of time. 

 

Is it still aiming for the waterline? I thought this has changed (slightly).

Are you able to citadel a boat higher in tier? ie: Myogi tier4 vs a CA tier5. 

How much is range playing a part? ie shooting myogi/wyoming at max range. How close do I need to be?

Are there recent vids on how to citadel guide?

Other factors play a role?

 

[kfa]

How to do citadel hits? 

I have been watching Ichasegame vids and other vids. So I understand the basics, where to shoot on a ship. They need to show their broadside and I need to aim for the parts under the chimney (biggest part).
Is the information is still accurate in those vids? 

 

I am playing a Wyoming and Myogi and I found it hard to citadel. Ofcourse it should be hard, but I have hardly citadel hits. I like to get better in this. The ammo I use is AP, basically always, as reloading take a huge amount of time. 

 

Is it still aiming for the waterline? I thought this has changed (slightly).
Are you able to citadel a boat higher in tier? ie: Myogi tier4 vs a CA tier5. 
How much is range playing a part? ie shooting myogi/wyoming at max range. How close do I need to be?
Are there recent vids on how to citadel guide?
Other factors play a role?

 

- General rule is to aim at the water line below the gun turrets (front or back doesnt matter), most of the ships have a quite large citadel area there. Battleships can citadel (almost) everything if the angle is right, the Myogi can quite happily citadel a Tier10 Des Moines. On the other hand if the enemy ship is angled, you will only able to do penetrating shots. Wait until she is showing broadside.

- Other thing, at maximum range cruisers can penetrate Battleship citadels with AP ammo. The angle of the shots is so high, its penetrating the (non-existent, very weak) deck armor.

- Destroyers dont have citadel, they can be magazined, but not citadeled, so there is no point shooting them with AP ammo.

- If you find yourself facing a good Battleship player, who never show broadside, always angling her armor and bouncing your shots, start using HE ammo, you cant really do much.

[ScarecrowCZ]

Also in Wyoming vs Myogi case (and Colorado vs Nagato case) aim on casemated secondaries - there is weaker armor around them and you know what is behind em? Secondary ammo racks = citadel

[Kissyfur]

 

- General rule is to aim at the water line below the gun turrets (front or back doesnt matter), most of the ships have a quite large citadel area there. Battleships can citadel (almost) everything if the angle is right, the Myogi can quite happily citadel a Tier10 Des Moines. On the other hand if the enemy ship is angled, you will only able to do penetrating shots. Wait until she is showing broadside.

- Other thing, at maximum range cruisers can penetrate Battleship citadels with AP ammo. The angle of the shots is so high, its penetrating the (non-existent, very weak) deck armor.

- Destroyers dont have citadel, they can be magazined, but not citadeled, so there is no point shooting them with AP ammo.

- If you find yourself facing a good Battleship player, who never show broadside, always angling her armor and bouncing your shots, start using HE ammo, you cant really do much.

 

Going for the magazines under the turrents is better then aiming for the boilerroom?

[desauvage]

there some good  video s on youtube explaining  this  in game

cant acces youtube from work but they are easy to find

[ScarecrowCZ]

 

Going for the magazines under the turrents is better then aiming for the boilerroom?

 

It depends - mags have softer armor but if you miss you will only overpen

[Kissyfur]

So the vid from iChaseGaming on citadel is still accurate?

[fnord_disc]

Mags are generally not worth it because their hitzone is lower in the water. The videos on citadels should still be accurate.

 

Sometimes it's just not possible to citadel someone at certain ranges. It depends. You can't citadel all enemy ships at any range.

[Blixies]

 

Going for the magazines under the turrents is better then aiming for the boilerroom?

 

Nope. Very few non BBs have citadels right under turrets.

 

Aim for the boiler rooms, under the smoke stacks.

[ilhilh]

I'm predominantly a BB player so my advice is perhaps slightly skewed but given how much you need to lead ships and how inaccurate guns are a lot of the talk about aiming below the guns or below the smoke stacks is irrelevant in my opinion.  Perhaps at close ranges you can expect to be more precise but in most situations it is moot.  Just aim towards the waterline and if your shells are hitting and not hitting too close to the bow or stern then you are going to start collecting citadels sooner or later.

 

p.s. you are in early stage BBs that are distinctly average.  You will find it easier in tier V plus I think...

[EsaTuunanen]

How to do citadel hits? 

I have been watching Ichasegame vids and other vids. So I understand the basics, where to shoot on a ship. They need to show their broadside and I need to aim for the parts under the chimney (biggest part).
Is the information is still accurate in those vids?

Also target distance has effect when shooting similar class target.

At certain distance shell trajectory starts dropping enough that hitting angle to belt armor becomes oblique enough that shells might not penetrate, but neither is their hitting angle yet enough to reliably penetrate deck armor.

 

Gunnery and Armor Penetration has more about that:

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/World_of_Warships

[Exocet6951]

It's also worth noting that destroyers don't have citadels (due to past abuse), and some ships have split citadels, so aiming in the middle does nothing.

[Admiral_Noif]

How to do citadel hits? 

I have been watching Ichasegame vids and other vids. So I understand the basics, where to shoot on a ship. They need to show their broadside and I need to aim for the parts under the chimney (biggest part).
Is the information is still accurate in those vids? 

 

I am playing a Wyoming and Myogi and I found it hard to citadel. Ofcourse it should be hard, but I have hardly citadel hits. I like to get better in this. The ammo I use is AP, basically always, as reloading take a huge amount of time. 

 

Is it still aiming for the waterline? I thought this has changed (slightly).
Are you able to citadel a boat higher in tier? ie: Myogi tier4 vs a CA tier5. 
How much is range playing a part? ie shooting myogi/wyoming at max range. How close do I need to be?
Are there recent vids on how to citadel guide?
Other factors play a role?

Take your time to watch this citadel hit tutorial video:

[GeneralRushHour]

 

- General rule is to aim at the water line below the gun turrets (front or back doesnt matter), most of the ships have a quite large citadel area there. Battleships can citadel (almost) everything if the angle is right, the Myogi can quite happily citadel a Tier10 Des Moines. On the other hand if the enemy ship is angled, you will only able to do penetrating shots. Wait until she is showing broadside.

- Other thing, at maximum range cruisers can penetrate Battleship citadels with AP ammo. The angle of the shots is so high, its penetrating the (non-existent, very weak) deck armor.

- Destroyers dont have citadel, they can be magazined, but not citadeled, so there is no point shooting them with AP ammo.

- If you find yourself facing a good Battleship player, who never show broadside, always angling her armor and bouncing your shots, start using HE ammo, you cant really do much.

 

Worth pointing out that some cruisers can citadel BBs at very close ranges as well.

[Kissyfur]

Thanks for the feedback. 

 

I have played another game in my Myogi and scored a citadel hit (Yeee). However I noticed another thing happened: I scored hits, but no damage. Really.. nothing happened on the HP bar of the enemy ship. Most likely the shots deflected(?). I did not see that happen however. Could be that a 15" laptop screen is not helping to spot this occurance. I do know I almost shoot at max range. 

 

I am curious if this changes when closing in and getting more reliable (heavier) hits. 

[Synth_FG]

If the other ship is angled it's quite possible for your shells to skip off the armoured belt without doing much damage

If playing a BB watch it happen to hits on your own ship 

[Unintentional_submarine]

Thanks for the feedback. 

 

I have played another game in my Myogi and scored a citadel hit (Yeee). However I noticed another thing happened: I scored hits, but no damage. Really.. nothing happened on the HP bar of the enemy ship. Most likely the shots deflected(?). I did not see that happen however. Could be that a 15" laptop screen is not helping to spot this occurance. I do know I almost shoot at max range. 

 

I am curious if this changes when closing in and getting more reliable (heavier) hits. 

 

A reasonably common result. AP shells can certainly be deflected off armour.

[Kissyfur]

If the other ship is angled it's quite possible for your shells to skip off the armoured belt without doing much damage

If playing a BB watch it happen to hits on your own ship 

 

I got a basic understanding when ships are angled. But apparently even slightly angled it increases the chance of deflecting. What hapeened was not just 1 shot, but more around 10 shots, that litterly did not even removed the paint of the enemy vessel. 

[Seikin]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

I have played another game in my Myogi and scored a citadel hit (Yeee). However I noticed another thing happened: I scored hits, but no damage. Really.. nothing happened on the HP bar of the enemy ship. Most likely the shots deflected(?). I did not see that happen however. Could be that a 15" laptop screen is not helping to spot this occurance. I do know I almost shoot at max range.

 

I am curious if this changes when closing in and getting more reliable (heavier) hits.

 

I think the bit I blued there may be the biggest factor. You'll have a much, much better chance at scoring a citadel at close range.. around 8km is good. Especially on a Myogi - its dispersion is pretty bad for the number of guns it has. And fire in salvo's. That seems to do better re. citadels too (or perhaps it just feels that way). But even so, its still common to finish games with no citadels - or just one or 2. Its pretty rare on a BB to get more than 3. in one game.

Lets face it, just one citadel in a BB salvo of 4-5 hits on a cruiser can easily take 60 - 90% of its health away - so having too many of those too often would be a bit overpowered.

Anyway, the best place I learned to citadel was on my Furutaka and Aoba. Good guns, capable of citadelling all cruisers - but a much faster rate of fire than a BB - so good to learn with. I'll often see more citadel hits with those too - just because they fire more quickly (but obviously do less damage than a citadel from a BB).

[Valerius]

when at max range you do not want to target the waterline but rather the deck as the angle of attack for the shells is high enough that they will simply skip off the side of the ship. If you aim at the deck you can get some nice plunging fire citadels though, as deck plating is generally thinner than side armour.

 

As to where to aim that depends entirely on the enemy's ship, speed and heading relative to you. You will figure out rough guestimates as to how far a lead to use against each class of ship to score hits, and thats pretty much all one can do.

But as has been said, try to hit the center of the ship as low as possible (unless the shells fly in a large arch) as that is where most ships have a citadel. The Cleveland has it's citadel a bit further forward of the center and destroyers don't have any citadels as has been mentioned previously.

[SkybuckFlying]

Not gonna read entire thread for now... though... hitting the "not broadship" but the small side of the ship.. does allow the bullit to travel through large parts of the ship and do lots of damage... keep this in mind ;)

[conductiv]

Not gonna read entire thread for now... though... hitting the "not broadship" but the small side of the ship.. does allow the bullit to travel through large parts of the ship and do lots of damage... keep this in mind ;)

 

this is not how shells seem to work in this game,

 

-shells in this game apparently have a fuse, this fuse arms when a certain amount of armor has been penetrated. practically none for HE and a certain number depending on caliber for AP..if there is not enough armor..the shell overpenetrates

-shells have once the fuse is armed a certain triggertime in the range of miliseconds, this determines, in conjunction with the shells speed, how deep the shell penetrates into the armor.

 

if you hit the bow or stern of a ship, the shell is likely to explode before it hits the high damage zones of the ship....shells don't just "keep going" indefinitely.

 

[Xerkics]

I usually aim below the smoke stacks for the citadel hits as a rule of thumb

[Lin3]

ichasegaming is better at aiming than I am.

 

Maybe if I practise a lot more I'll get almost as good as him...

[Myrmix]

if you hit the bow or stern of a ship, the shell is likely to explode before it hits the high damage zones of the ship....shells don't just "keep going" indefinitely.

 

 

I think german cruisers are a fine counterexample. I have seen this often in my Königsberg (very low citadel armor): When I'm very close to a BB (that should not happen, but game doesn't work out always like I want) I have seen much overpens, when i drive broadside to a BB, but solid citadels, when I drive angled or towards him, because the angled armor is thick enough to activate the fuse and AP is gonna blow up my citadel.

 

@Kissfur: If you are interested in more detailed damage mechanics, i can reccomend this thread: http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/18034-basics-damage-mechanics/

It has a lot of information about angling and possible aiming vs enemy ships.

F.i.somethimes it might be even a good idea to aim at very high distances (20+km) with a BB against another BB at the railing to penetrate from above (because AP loses penetration over flightdistance), as long as the projectile trajectory is steep enough.

But mostly, penetration from BB-guns are enough to citadel other BB at waterline.