Nuernburg is a joke. Heck everything in the German tree suffers. Everything.

[VonPletz]

The problem with the German Cruisers is that they are simply out classed by the stupid technicals WOWS gave these ships. They should all be 2 tiers lower than where they are because they can not fight in their same tiers.  For example, if your are in a Hindenburg and see a Des Moines...you better run because the Des Moines will burn you down and you might get 3 volley rounds off before he sinks you.  Especially since they just buffed the Des Moines shell damage again...(gee lets make it more unbeatable) The reason for the buff is because everyone was complaining about the Zao's ability to kill the Des Moines with its more powerful cannons...  They really need to remove the Karlsruhe, Kolberg, and Yorck because these ships are substandard at best.

So in a fight with a Hindenburg vs Zao....say bye bye because you will be treading water real soon watch the bow of your Hindenburg slipping slowly beneath the waves....

 

[damo74]

I'm at koenigsberg, and I don't plan to go any further to avoid disappointment. At least koenigsberg is a keeper.

[Nefczi]

The problem with the German Cruisers is that they are simply out classed by the stupid technicals WOWS gave these ships. They should all be 2 tiers lower than where they are because they can not fight in their same tiers.  For example, if your are in a Hindenburg and see a Des Moines...you better run because the Des Moines will burn you down and you might get 3 volley rounds off before he sinks you.  Especially since they just buffed the Des Moines shell damage again...(gee lets make it more unbeatable) The reason for the buff is because everyone was complaining about the Zao's ability to kill the Des Moines with its more powerful cannons...  They really need to remove the Karlsruhe, Kolberg, and Yorck because these ships are substandard at best.

 

So in a fight with a Hindenburg vs Zao....say bye bye because you will be treading water real soon watch the bow of your Hindenburg slipping slowly beneath the waves....

 

 

 

Could you tell us what is your opinion based on exacly?

 

You didnt play any cruiser past tier 7 so you are not basing your opinion on personal experience. Also from what I seen, statistically Des Moines is the worst performing T10 ship, far behind Zao/Hindenburg, worse than destroyers even(average damage/win rate etc). And Hinderburg is only marginally behind Zao, altho its still small sample size.

 

So could you share where does your knowledge come from, or at least the name of your dealer? 

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

Not for long Nefczi, not for long Go and grind Des, he's coming back.

[HMS_Erebus]

I'm at koenigsberg, and I don't plan to go any further to avoid disappointment. At least koenigsberg is a keeper.

 

Your missing out the Nurn is still a fun ship.

[Gojuadorai]

 

Your missing out the Nurn is still a fun ship.

 

kind of but in all aspects it is  equal or worse than the k-berg with worse matchmaking.

(higher rof isnt realy great and the increased hp are bought with having sluggisher steering)

[VonPletz]

 

 

Could you tell us what is your opinion based on exacly?

 

You didnt play any cruiser past tier 7 so you are not basing your opinion on personal experience. Also from what I seen, statistically Des Moines is the worst performing T10 ship, far behind Zao/Hindenburg, worse than destroyers even(average damage/win rate etc). And Hinderburg is only marginally behind Zao, altho its still small sample size.

 

So could you share where does your knowledge come from, or at least the name of your dealer? 

 

Actually, yes I have played every German Cruiser with my public beta account.  So, I am speaking with experience when I tell you that a DesMoines will burn a Hindenburg to the ground with ease.  Zao is my favorite of the Tier 10 Cruisers...it is an awesome ship and can take on Tier10 BBs very well.

 

Roon is basically a Konigsburg on steriods but without the ROF.  The ship configuration (like Konigsburg) is built for you to be running away because all you can do is be an annoyance and free XP to the other team. It too like the rest of the German Cruisers are not fast an unable to fight a retreat battle for long because the USN and IJN ships are faster and have better Turn ability (shell dodging)  than the sluggish German Cruisers.  So, to answer your questions, yes...I have experience with every ship in this game with the exception of Premiums.

 

[HexenNOR]

Get to Yorck and Nurnberg will be a dreamship ready to carry you to heaven. It's so awful i almost uninstalled the game. I've decided to free xp my way over it, i can barely stand looking at it before i throw up in my mouth.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

"I played X Y Z on test server, so I know everything about the X Y Z" season is now open! 

 

Now, I don't want to be rude, but no, you don't have experience. You tell Des Moines kill planes like theres now tommorow - wrong. He got less DPS then Baltimore tier lower. Only advantage is - if you take AFT perk, you will broke formation with Defensive Fire from bigger distance, but you won't massacre the planes, because of the DF mechanics (buffing the longest range gun). So while you can broke formation from more then 7 km, you wont shoot whole bunch of planes down. More like 2 - 3 from whole wave.

 

Furthermore, unless Hindenburg get the same shell speed and trajetory that Des have - Des actually will lose any fight above 13 - 14 km distance. You won't hit Hindenburg with your full salvoes, while Hind, with nice RoF and impressive AP dmg will just wreck your superstructures. Same with Zao vs Des. 

Secondly, 1 or 2 knot speed difference means nothing when fighting in retreat. You will lose 1 km per 2/3 minutes of chase, and that's 1 vs 1, not counting your team, or any obstacles in the way.

Try and actually grind your way to the ships you talk about. Test servers and so on mean nothing.  

[Nefczi]

 

Actually, yes I have played every German Cruiser with my public beta account.  So, I am speaking with experience when I tell you that a DesMoines will burn a Hindenburg to the ground with ease.  Zao is my favorite of the Tier 10 Cruisers...it is an awesome ship and can take on Tier10 BBs very well.

 

Roon is basically a Konigsburg on steriods but without the ROF.  The ship configuration (like Konigsburg) is built for you to be running away because all you can do is be an annoyance and free XP to the other team. It too like the rest of the German Cruisers are not fast an unable to fight a retreat battle for long because the USN and IJN ships are faster and have better Turn ability (shell dodging)  than the sluggish German Cruisers.  So, to answer your questions, yes...I have experience with every ship in this game with the exception of Premiums.

 

 

I also played those ships on test server, so I guess that makes me as much "specialist" as you ;)

 

 But you dont seem to realize how different test server is from live server. There is totally diferent gameplay dynamic, especially if it comes to to higher tiers. There is a lot of "noobs" that dont have a ship above tier 5 on live server and on test nobody cares about stuff like repair costs. Those things affect the gameplay greatly.  On live server the high tier battles look totally diferent, its usually a long range sniping fest, while on test there is a lot more brawling and offensive or even suicidal play. 

 

So becouse of the huge diference in gameplay, You have to be carefull with basing your opinions solely on "experence" from test server, especially such strong opinions, where you posing as some kind of specialist in the matter. 

 

Des Moines should beat Hindenburg in a close rane combat, with its superior rate of fire, altho I wouldnt underestimate the power of Hindenburg guns with AP at close distances. But at longer distances Des Moines simply doesnt stand a chance. Not sure if you noticed poor shell travel time and high arc of DM guns/shells? You simply wont be able to hit reliably at longer distances, while Hindenburg can hit stuff easly at long range with its high velocity, low arc accurate guns.

 

Thats probably why Hindenburg is performing noticably better than Des Moine statistically. Des Moines may look like a beast on test server bocouse there is a lot of offensive play and brawling, but its clearly loseing a lot of its effectiveness on live server becouse of current long range sniping meta, where Hindenburg overally seems to be stronger ship. Hindenburg is a second best performing cruiser in game right now, only slightly behind Zao,while Des Moines has the worst performance among all tier 10 ships, even slightly worse than destroyers.  

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

I understand that 5.1 upgraded the max damage of (at least some) German AP shells.  I believe that on Königsberg it went from 3000 to 3900, which is not a bad rise at all.

 

Has anyone noticed the improvement? 

[Unintentional_submarine]

I understand that 5.1 upgraded the max damage of (at least some) German AP shells.  I believe that on Königsberg it went from 3000 to 3900, which is not a bad rise at all.

 

Has anyone noticed the improvement? 

 

No that came with their release.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

The improvement was made with release of the GE CA. Prior to the release GE CA were a bit lacking, so after release they were buffed in certain aspects - including AP damage. So the value you mentioned (3900) is from the "beginning".

[edit] ninjed!

[Lieutenant_Hubert_Gruber]

After the last patch and the feck *p, my Hipper is the king of the sea!

 

A battleship at 15 km, No problem! I just sail right at him and torp the poor guy, while each of his salvos just scratch my paint! APing cruisers, hunting DDs, I am just cruising in god mode!

 

But honestly, It is no fun. I hope they fix the BB's AP citadel issue soon. 

 

On topic.  I enjoyed the Nürn a lot. Good ship and funny little brawler. Just wait behind an island and catch an enemy cruiser at 5-6km, then AP the guy to the bottom of the sea  

[Mehmeds]

Who coulda guessed, that russian company would make german ships crap?

[VonPletz]

 

I also played those ships on test server, so I guess that makes me as much "specialist" as you ;)

 

 But you dont seem to realize how different test server is from live server. There is totally diferent gameplay dynamic, especially if it comes to to higher tiers. There is a lot of "noobs" that dont have a ship above tier 5 on live server and on test nobody cares about stuff like repair costs. Those things affect the gameplay greatly.  On live server the high tier battles look totally diferent, its usually a long range sniping fest, while on test there is a lot more brawling and offensive or even suicidal play. 

 

So becouse of the huge diference in gameplay, You have to be carefull with basing your opinions solely on "experence" from test server, especially such strong opinions, where you posing as some kind of specialist in the matter. 

 

Des Moines should beat Hindenburg in a close rane combat, with its superior rate of fire, altho I wouldnt underestimate the power of Hindenburg guns with AP at close distances. But at longer distances Des Moines simply doesnt stand a chance. Not sure if you noticed poor shell travel time and high arc of DM guns/shells? You simply wont be able to hit reliably at longer distances, while Hindenburg can hit stuff easly at long range with its high velocity, low arc accurate guns.

 

Thats probably why Hindenburg is performing noticably better than Des Moine statistically. Des Moines may look like a beast on test server bocouse there is a lot of offensive play and brawling, but its clearly loseing a lot of its effectiveness on live server becouse of current long range sniping meta, where Hindenburg overally seems to be stronger ship. Hindenburg is a second best performing cruiser in game right now, only slightly behind Zao,while Des Moines has the worst performance among all tier 10 ships, even slightly worse than destroyers.  

 

Don't claim to be a SPecialist...I can rely what I have found and what I have played against German ships.  And From Experience, they do not stand up against their own peers!

 

As to range and accuracy....It does not mean anything if your shots bounce (which with German Cruiser it is much more common) and more importantly...you don't do the damage to kill them before they kill you.  With the Buff on the (per shell) damage to the Des Moines and with its ROF...again it will burn a Hindenburg to the ground.  Why?

 

That leads to the second point...the armor is total crap on all the German Cruisers. 

 

You will play with just as many noob partners on the OBT Server than the Public Test server because only the testers were originally given it to  play the changes to the game. Even so....you don't have to be on the Public Test server to see shell after shell hit and bounce or DO NO DAMAGE because they gave the Germans crappy shells and nerfed their cannons.  Why would I say that?  Easy,  I never had problems with penetration in my Mogami (203mm) with a Pensacola, New Orleans, or Cleveland with as many shell bounces and no damage as I have had with the Hipper (exact same caliber cannon 203mm)

 

Why? Go ask WoWS...!

 

[Nefczi]

 

Don't claim to be a SPecialist...I can rely what I have found and what I have played against German ships.  And From Experience, they do not stand up against their own peers!

 

As to range and accuracy....It does not mean anything if your shots bounce (which with German Cruiser it is much more common) and more importantly...you don't do the damage to kill them before they kill you.  With the Buff on the (per shell) damage to the Des Moines and with its ROF...again it will burn a Hindenburg to the ground.  Why?

 

That leads to the second point...the armor is total crap on all the German Cruisers. 

 

You will play with just as many noob partners on the OBT Server than the Public Test server because only the testers were originally given it to  play the changes to the game. Even so....you don't have to be on the Public Test server to see shell after shell hit and bounce or DO NO DAMAGE because they gave the Germans crappy shells and nerfed their cannons.  Why would I say that?  Easy,  I never had problems with penetration in my Mogami (203mm) with a Pensacola, New Orleans, or Cleveland with as many shell bounces and no damage as I have had with the Hipper (exact same caliber cannon 203mm)

 

First of all, there was no damage buff to Des Moines shells, but buff to penetration angles of AP shells.

 

Second of all my Hindenburg was citadeling other cruisers easly, even at longer distances and was doing even 6-12k AP damage per salvo to battleships. So im not sure what "bad damage" are you talking about. Every tier 5-10 german cruiser(beside maybe Yorck) deals very nice AP damage, especially tier 8-10 have amazing guns(accuracy, shell travel time, trajectory) that hit like a truck with AP ammo.

 

Also German cannons werent nerfed, they actually buffed the AP shell damage considerably when the tree was released. Hindenburg AP shell damage from 5000 to 5900 for example.

 

You also speak like there is some massive firepower diference between Des Moine and Hindenburg, lets see.

 

Des Moines has 9 guns with 10rpm, thats 90 shells per minute total.

Hindenburg has 12 guns with 6rpm, thats 72 shells per minute total.

Des Moines has higher HE damage per shell while Hindenburg has higher AP damage.

 

As the diference is definatelly noticable its not that huge as well. Especially if you consider other gun aspects. The diference between accuracy, shell travel time and arc is very big. Those are very important things. Its very easy to avoid/dodge Des Mones shells at longer distances, while its much harder to avoid fast Hindenburg shells.Its hard to use your DPS adventage in Des moines at longer ranges where its much harder to hit reliably. 

So if you were "burn down" by a Des Moines while playing Hindenburg, its a L2P issue, sorry.

 

Some latest stats (WinRate/Avg EXP/Avg DMG):

 

Zao

48.52%

1594

59971

 

Hindenburg

49.80%

1518

57067

 

Des Moines

44.12%

1291

46739

 

Hindenburg is performing marginally worse than Zao, while Des Moines is still the worst performing T10 ship, with one of the lowest win rates in game.

Roon is performing better than Baltimore, similiar to Ibuki.

Hipper is performing similiar to New Orleans, both are outclassed by Mogami.

tier 5-7 Gearma cruiser also perform similiar to US/IJN counterparts., even Yorck with its crappy guns performs similiar to Pensacola.

 

You personally haveing problems with playing german cruisers, doesnt mean they are crap in compare to other nations cruisers.

 

The fact that most higher tier cruisers are generally an underdogs in a battleship heavy meta, is another issue. Well, at least that was the case befoer 5.1 patch.

 

 

[damo74]

Who coulda guessed, that russian company would make german ships crap?

 

The Koenigsberg is an epic ship. Perhaps the best cruiser in the game for it's tier.

 

It's become my favourite in-game ship.

[Psusennes]

Who said that Nürnberg is a joke ... ?

 

[Gojuadorai]

Who said that Nürnberg is a joke ... ?

 

 

i had a game in it where i killed 6 ships with it...

but thats only remotely possible if no opponent shoots at you.

and then every ship is op.

the nurn is a ok ship maybe you can call it good

but then again its (in its tier) not as good as the k-berg and i would say the k-berg is a good ship but i struggle to call it op

[Captain_Larran]

I stopped playing the German cruisers when I had an appalling game.

 

First I get my engine knocked out. I just get it back when I get it knocked out again, along with the rudder.

I hit "Repair" to get them back, but less than 15 seconds later the rudder gets knocked out again.

My Konigsberg gets sunk shortly after.

 

After reading on the forum that the Admiral Hipper is fragile I don't think I'll bother.

[Psusennes]

 

i had a game in it where i killed 6 ships with it...

but thats only remotely possible if no opponent shoots at you.

and then every ship is op.

the nurn is a ok ship maybe you can call it good

but then again its (in its tier) not as good as the k-berg and i would say the k-berg is a good ship but i struggle to call it op

 

No, I get regular good winners with Nürnberg. But thats maybe because I got an Admiral on all my three german ships.

 

Nürnberg meanwhile has a better win rate than Aoba and Cleveland. Certainly the patch has given improvments.

Hipper is good too. I like it as much as my Tirpitz.

 

 

[Gojuadorai]

 

No, I get regular good winners with Nürnberg. But thats maybe because I got an Admiral on all my three german ships.

 

Nürnberg meanwhile has a better win rate than Aoba and Cleveland. Certainly the patch has given improvments.

Hipper is good too. I like it as much as my Tirpitz.

 

 

 

i didnt say you coulnt  have consistet good games with the ship else i wouldnt call it ok.

wat i tried to express is that you really struggle to do realy well with it compared to other ships given your opponents do not ignore you.

from what i feel the aoba is just the superior ship and i kinda do not trust winrates as a metric (especially on cruisers cause they do not have the most carry potential)

maybe in 2-3 months stats may indicate something when the playerbase of old and new ships is about the same.

[Psusennes]

 

i didnt say you coulnt  have consistet good games with the ship else i wouldnt call it ok.

wat i tried to express is that you really struggle to do realy well with it compared to other ships given your opponents do not ignore you.

from what i feel the aoba is just the superior ship and i kinda do not trust winrates as a metric (especially on cruisers cause they do not have the most carry potential)

maybe in 2-3 months stats may indicate something when the playerbase of old and new ships is about the same.

 

Lets put it this way. If the others aim at me, I look that I get fast away from there ... thats certain.

 

I would never engage a BB directly if I have no own BB that distracts them. But the firing rate of the Nurnberg really pisses off most of the BB drivers within its tier. Even one tier higher, you get a lot of damage. about 2k per salvo if you aim good. I sunk an NC without any issue approaching him from the back while he was shooting at my team mate on Tirpitz. 4 Torp hits and a few cita.

 

Because of the way the shots fly, volley, when the target is reached you already shoot the next salvo. Litteraly you never stop. it is like an Atlanta, but with 17Km range.

 

A few golden rules to survive, which I do follow

1. Don't go first

2. Don't go alone

3. watch the opponent closely at what he is firing

4. Better hide once too much than get sunken

 

[Gojuadorai]

A few golden rules to survive, which I do follow

1. Don't go first

2. Don't go alone

3. watch the opponent closely at what he is firing

4. Better hide once too much than get sunken

 ofc those are good tips.

my "complaint" about the ship is more that you have to satisfy all those conditions to do  as well as others do without .

like  for example  2. dont go alone

if your  whole team goes to retarded places what do you do? follow and have no impact or die alone trying to make a difference? (ofc its a cruiser and not a bb but still i think you know what i try to point out)

(and dont get me wrong i like the ship  thats why im posting here)