Nuernburg is a joke. Heck everything in the German tree suffers. Everything.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

This guy is too funny Man, good that you're back bro What you said is 100% BS. And you miss all the points like I miss my torpedo drops when I play CV. But I'm a good guy, so I'll help you. Now you can whine how Mockba is better then Hindenburg in everything that counts - that at least is a plausible reason to whine. As for the rest of the stuff you wrote - I'm a generous god and I won't comment.

[Meneleus]

Now, where are those down vote options.. 

 

They took our toys away

 

Cheers, M

[VonPletz]

This guy is too funny Man, good that you're back bro What you said is 100% BS. And you miss all the points like I miss my torpedo drops when I play CV. But I'm a good guy, so I'll help you. Now you can whine how Mockba is better then Hindenburg in everything that counts - that at least is a plausible reason to whine. As for the rest of the stuff you wrote - I'm a generous god and I won't comment.

 

Soviet Cruisers will be interesting....since these guys made WOTS....... I imagine the same skews will be in this game as well. 

 

I will most definitely be playing the Soviet Cruisers....because if they are like the Micheal Kutozov they will be pretty good.  However, I must add I don't have a Kutozov but as the opposing side they are difficult to fight.

 

As to the other...you don't see what I see either....its not fantasy....it fairness I am looking for.  Since as you say its all about balance then they should make all the ships the same for each class ship..same armor, same range on guns, same shell dispersion, same everything specifications....but with different ship designs and then the game will be balanced as you say.

 

If you are goinng to tout (as Wargaming does) our ships will be historically accurate then DO IT! Not take away the historic strengths of one ship leaving its weaknesses making it the worst ships of the tiers. That is my point but you seem to miss it.  Its not fantasy....its historic reality that is the problem.

 

 

P.S.  The Mockba Tier X Soviet Cruier has 65k HP....15k more HP than Hindenburg.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

 As to the other...you don't see what I see either....its not fantasy....it fairness I am looking for.  Since as you say its all about balance then they should make all the ships the same for each class ship..same armor, same range on guns, same shell dispersion, same everything specifications....but with different ship designs and then the game will be balanced as you say.

Again, that is totally wrong. Balance is achieved with diversity in mind. So each ship will have it's pros and cons, each ship will fulfill it's designed niche in game. And up to today, this balance was pretty nice. US, IJN and GE CA's were doing pretty nice against each other, with each ship having a clear advantages over the other, while still suffering from various flaws. But with introduction of soviet CA's there will be a prblem, since Mockba is better then Hindenburg at it's niche (long range sniper with good ballistics and poor camo), so it pushes out Hindenburg and make it obsolete - this is something you should start whine around.

 Its not fantasy....its historic reality that is the problem.

It sure is, because it's a fantasy game, based on arcade mechanism, where US ships fight alongside IJN ships against GE and US ships. If you don't like it - stop playing? Launch Silent Hunter and enjoy sophisticated historical accuracy simulator. This is casual game, and let's keep it that way. I'm not whining in every topic that US gunnery radar is not included in game. I'm not crying that US super heavy 203 is not imploding stuff left and right. I'm not crying that Des Moines should be virtually untouchable by anything else. But you do. So your attitude is the problem, not the game.

 

[Verdius]

Whelp Budyonny seems to be basically all the best parts of a Nürnberg plus the pre-nerf Cleveland (aside from slightly weaker armor, though still stronger than Nürnberg and Aoba) combined.

Its guns slightly outrange Nürnberg, have an amazing trajectory, are deadly accurate, have high RoF, have good pen and the turrets turn decently quick. The ship also has second best AA at its tier and has quint high speed torp launchers. Oh and it is also faster and has better rudder shift times and better turret placement than the Nürnburg.

 

It is going to be a flatout better ship than the Nürnberg (and other tier 6 cruisers for that matter).

 

At most tiers balance is going to be arguable, but at tier 6 the Russian bias (or lack of balancing) is ridiculously overt.

[VonPletz]

Again, that is totally wrong. Balance is achieved with diversity in mind. So each ship will have it's pros and cons, each ship will fulfill it's designed niche in game. And up to today, this balance was pretty nice. US, IJN and GE CA's were doing pretty nice against each other, with each ship having a clear advantages over the other, while still suffering from various flaws. But with introduction of soviet CA's there will be a prblem, since Mockba is better then Hindenburg at it's niche (long range sniper with good ballistics and poor camo), so it pushes out Hindenburg and make it obsolete - this is something you should start whine around.

It sure is, because it's a fantasy game, based on arcade mechanism, where US ships fight alongside IJN ships against GE and US ships. If you don't like it - stop playing? Launch Silent Hunter and enjoy sophisticated historical accuracy simulator. This is casual game, and let's keep it that way. I'm not whining in every topic that US gunnery radar is not included in game. I'm not crying that US super heavy 203 is not imploding stuff left and right. I'm not crying that Des Moines should be virtually untouchable by anything else. But you do. So your attitude is the problem, not the game.

 

 

You claim of balance is bogus...if you want TRUE balance then just make all the classes of ships the same and have people decide on modules to add and captain skills.  Not claim the game is historically accurate (as Wargaming does) then make is not historically accurate by cutting out the strengths.  You can't have both ways because each nations ships had specific strengths and to discount those strength is just not right nor fair to the ships and men that sailed and died on them.

 

It's obvious you can't see that so just continue with opinion.....because your arguments are hypocritical. Best of luck.

 

[Sander93]

AA is great, 

 

 

 

Did not experience the same performance, perhaps it's because I didn't bother upgrading the AA and perhaps I'm too used to the Des Moines. 

 

With the other points I agree, bought the Hipper this morning and I'm on ~80.000 average damage so far (New Orleans 64.000). Win ratio of 48% because of cancer teams but I don't care because that'll rectify itself over time. It's funny even the second highest average damage in the world will, in this game, not guarantee wins because of potatoes for teammates. The AP shells are fun and they're really easy to use if you're used to the USN mortars. 

 

Can't wait for the Roon and Hindenburg. Poor Des Moines will have to rust in port. I already prefer the German citadel heaven over Des Moines' fire rate. God I wish they would fix the US shell velocity/arcs. 

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

 Did not experience the same performance, perhaps it's because I didn't bother upgrading the AA and perhaps I'm too used to the Des Moines. 

Perhaps. I gimped Hipper for AA for team battles until Kutuzov will be on sale. He did very good job with two 4 tier perks and without BFT. Planes were dropping pretty nice, and few CV's runned out of planes when I was playing it. 

 With the other points I agree, bought the Hipper this morning and I'm on ~80.000 average damage so far (New Orleans 64.000). Win ratio of 48% because of cancer teams but I don't care because that'll rectify itself over time. It's funny even the second highest average damage in the world will, in this game, not guarantee wins because of potatoes for teammates. The AP shells are fun and they're really easy to use if you're used to the USN mortars. 

Hipper is very nice. I have some problems with tier VIII CA's now, as I very often end in tier X games. For now it's like 5 games on tier X and 1 on tier VIII. That makes things very difficult. Although I agree that AP shells are great, but there is huge difference hen you play Hipper against skilled captains. That's suff I experienced on team battles - dealing good chunks of damage while enemy is constantly angling is very difficult. That's the biggest weakness of GE CA for me - unless your opponent is oblivious to AP glory, or he doesn't have a choice but to show you his broadside - damage goes down a lot.

 

 Can't wait for the Roon and Hindenburg. Poor Des Moines will have to rust in port. I already prefer the German citadel heaven over Des Moines' fire rate. God I wish they would fix the US shell velocity/arcs. 

Roon is great for me now. Have lots of fun in it. If Hindi is even better, can't imagine Although Des forever in my heart, no filthy german piece of steel will take it's place  

 You claim of balance is bogus...if you want TRUE balance then just make all the classes of ships the same and have people decide on modules to add and captain skills.  Not claim the game is historically accurate (as Wargaming does) then make is not historically accurate by cutting out the strengths.  You can't have both ways because each nations ships had specific strengths and to discount those strength is just not right nor fair to the ships and men that sailed and died on them.

If you want TRUE balance and TRUE historical accuracy - no problem. Hipper with it's real life characteristics vs Des Moines. Germany didn't built any other CA's soooo... Yeah. 1945 Hipper vs 1945 Des Moines. Or even Baltimore. That would be accurate. Not that I have anything against it - it would be fun to rotflstomp Hipper in every way possible in every game.

But, you just are either too stubborn or too thick to get what balance in game mechanics is, because we're talking about game, not about dictionary term. It means that each piece of game performs exactly the same in the bracket it was given. In WoWs it's win rate and average damage. Both of which is more often then not strictly correlated with each other (CV's are kinda an oddity here - it's easy to spot bad CV skipper vs good CV skipper). And the means to achieve said balance can be different. In WoWs it has many options, ballistics, armour, penetration values, mobility, camo etc. You also mistake game for some kind of historic "credit" and "justice". If it was a historic game, I would write tons of petitions to god damn ban everything that was built by nazis and soviets cause it would offend me and my grandparents legacy (Gramp was in concentration camp, Grandma was in labour camp, from mother side Gramps was in concentration camp, Gradma was in AK - a partisan). But, it's a game, nothing more, nothing less. So I can admire beautiful ships and take them to fictional battles, and that's it. 

 

[BillydSquid]

 

Did not experience the same performance, perhaps it's because I didn't bother upgrading the AA and perhaps I'm too used to the Des Moines. 

 

With the other points I agree, bought the Hipper this morning and I'm on ~80.000 average damage so far (New Orleans 64.000). Win ratio of 48% because of cancer teams but I don't care because that'll rectify itself over time. It's funny even the second highest average damage in the world will, in this game, not guarantee wins because of potatoes for teammates. The AP shells are fun and they're really easy to use if you're used to the USN mortars. 

 

Can't wait for the Roon and Hindenburg. Poor Des Moines will have to rust in port. I already prefer the German citadel heaven over Des Moines' fire rate. God I wish they would fix the US shell velocity/arcs. 

 

Yeah, it's because used to using the Des Moines, Hipper is good but it's a T8 CA, not a T10 USN CA, which makes aircraft look like they've run into a blender when it has the defensive fire mod on. If I'm ever in a match with high tier CVs I run for cover behind the nearest Des Moines in my Roon or Hipper. 

 

I'm not as good as Dropsiq so I'm not going to agree when it comes to good armour, as I make errors which leads to heavy hits being taken, because I'm too aggressive, but I don't do as much damage when I stick to defensive play.  It can certainly take the hits, it's got the most HP rather than heavy armour, so it can take more damage than any T8 CA in the game, but citadels really hurt it and they're easier to get than the likes of an Atago. It's really a glass cannon ship, screw up and you get your teeth kicked in, play right and it'll citadel BBs. I've not seen any T8 cruisers that can do that. 

 

Roon is basically like the Hipper, but better and hits harder, like a [edited]freight train. You can go shell to shell with an Iowa if it's careless enough to give you a clear broadside. I've not managed to citadel one yet, but you fire faster, you've got better shell dispersion (150m) and the shells have really good penetration. Plus mine has 20.7km range

 

Cons, it's a lot bigger but still has thin armour, so torpedoes do a lot of damage same with citadel hits vs BBs. Also turns like a pregnant cow, I'm still on hull A so I have a 12 second rudder shift which should drop to 9 in hull B. Also it's got really bad detection range, well maybe not as bad as the new Russian CAs, but it's not going to be sneaking up on many ships in the same way the Zao can, but then again you don't really want to. It fights better vs CAs and BBs at range so it's more useful to slip away after your first few salvoes if you start attracting unhealthy amounts of fire. 

 

[ollonborre]

But I guess you can't handle facts.

 

The only fact here is that you can't see outside your little German uber alles bubble, and therefore are not worth spending more time arguing with. Because no matter what anyone says you will just refuse to listen.

 

So enjoy your little delusions.

 

[VonPletz]

The only fact here is that you can't see outside your little German uber alles bubble, and therefore are not worth spending more time arguing with. Because no matter what anyone says you will just refuse to listen.

 

So enjoy your little delusions.

 

 

I suggest you go back and do some research.  All my stats I quote are fact not fantasy.

 

[Tyrendian89]

Perhaps. I gimped Hipper for AA for team battles until Kutuzov will be on sale. He did very good job with two 4 tier perks and without BFT. Planes were dropping pretty nice, and few CV's runned out of planes when I was playing it. 

Hipper is very nice. I have some problems with tier VIII CA's now, as I very often end in tier X games. For now it's like 5 games on tier X and 1 on tier VIII. That makes things very difficult. Although I agree that AP shells are great, but there is huge difference hen you play Hipper against skilled captains. That's suff I experienced on team battles - dealing good chunks of damage while enemy is constantly angling is very difficult. That's the biggest weakness of GE CA for me - unless your opponent is oblivious to AP glory, or he doesn't have a choice but to show you his broadside - damage goes down a lot.

 

Roon is great for me now. Have lots of fun in it. If Hindi is even better, can't imagine Although Des forever in my heart, no filthy german piece of steel will take it's place  

 

oh yes, Roon is an absolute monster. So much so that I somehow can't bring myself to spend freeXP to upgrade to Hindenburg (which I could've for a week now), because Roon is just so much fun...

[Admiral_noodle]

I've unlocked the Yorck. Not planning on buying her soon though. Nurnberg is so much fun! And perfect for the arp haruna part 2 mission. She farms confederates too and the occasional kraken

 

It's all about the pew pee pew!

 

Though Koenigsberg is lovely too.

 

Just so long as you don't get hit and blow up - incoming fire alert is a mandatory skill I feel.

[Sander93]

The Roon. Jesus christ the Roon. The AP absolutely wrecks everything. Broadside battleships literally do not stand a chance against the DPM. 5000-10.000 damage every 8.8 seconds. 

 

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

Got my Hindi It's also nice

 

[JohnA87]

After an enjoyable time with the Roon i unlocked the Hindenburg yesterday and damn what a ship! After 8 battles i have/had 150k avg dmg.. I fully expect it to drop over time, but at least it shows some great potential!

 

[Nor_Hunter]

What makes me sad is the range for the torpedos. In real life you could set up the german torpedos to go up too 12km.

[mtm78]

irl IJN CA's carried Long Lances... still want realistic torpedo loadouts?

[Gojuadorai]

well it wouldnt hurt to have 8km on T8+

[mtm78]

well it wouldnt hurt to have 8km on T8+

 

Every cruiser on the IJN line up from Furutaka carried type93's ( the torpedo's Shimakaze has in game ), so again: do you really want realistic torpedo ranges? You can't ask for 'realism' only for one nation ;)

[Sander93]

well it wouldnt hurt to have 8km on T8+

 

Would make them overpowered IMO. The Germans already have the best tier 8-10 cruisers currently. The torpedoes are sufficient for self defense. 

[SinkTheOthersNotMe]

Love this thread, please listen the OP and do not play a German ship.

 

 

 

After all I would hate to have *** Nurnberg or Konigsberg or Roon during a battle. Please OP go play a cleveland, pensacola or des moines you will make me very happy -> while I send you AP after AP from max distance (and you can not do anything about it)

 

I do love those hate threads when it comes to my favorite ships

[ApesTogetherStronK]

Love this thread, please listen the OP and do not play a German ship.

 

 

 

After all I would hate to have *** Nurnberg or Konigsberg or Roon during a battle. Please OP go play a cleveland, pensacola or des moines you will make me very happy -> while I send you AP after AP from max distance (and you can not do anything about it)

 

I do love those hate threads when it comes to my favorite ships

 

If you bothered to look you would see the original posting date on my opening post. 

Very few of the original points are still valid 7-8 patches on. 

[PzAbteilung]

nurnberg is a crap, the furutaka before the buff was much better ship than nurnberg.

When the german cruisers line came, i played a lot with konigsberg and by that time, it was a real glass canon. I literally killed much enemy cruisers with 1 salvo (kumas and phoenix) and other ones in 2 salvos (furutakas and omahas for example)

 

Them, they made a patch where they said. that the ap dmg from german 155mm will be increased, in fact it was, but also the probabilty of doing citadels decreased so much. 

 

I just bought the nurnberg, but kowning that knigsberg isnt as good as it was, i really didnt expect nurnberg to be that crappy.

 

EVERY SINGLE SHOT U GET IS CITADEL. 2shots? then u have 1000 hp left. luck

[Ragoutrabbit]

Pretty funny really going from the konigsberg which is probably one of the most OP ship I've used to the nurnberg which is a big steaming pile of crap.