[SCRUB] ApesTogetherStronK [SCRUB] Players 1,074 posts Report post #1 Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) So I was thinking a little earlier today, this wouldn't (eventually) be World of Warships unless we include the whole World's roster of combat vessels right? So I did some research and come up with a list of potential candidates for a tech tree that encompasses all the minor nations who had warships fielded between 1900-1950. Please note that this is a rough list and I apologize if details are fuzzy, left out, or if you disagree with the tiers I have placed examples in. Cruisers T I PC class (Norway) Displacement: 357 tons Speed/Engine: 20 knots using 3600HP Armor: None Armament: 3 x 76.2mm Main Battery 2 x 20mm AA 2 x 7.7mm AA T II Challenger class (Australia) Displacement: 5880 tons Speed/Engine: 21 knots at 12500HP Armor: None Armament: 11 x 152mm Main Battery 15 x 3 to 9 pounder Secondary Battery Zenta class (Austria-Hungary) Displacement: 2543 tons Speed/Engine: 20.8 knots at 8160HP Armor: 25-50mm Armament: 8 x 120mm Main Battery 10 x 47mm Secondar Battery T III Novara class (Austria-Hungary) Displacement: 4417 tons Speed/Engine: 27 knots at 30,000SHP Armor: 8-60mm Armament: 9 x 100mm Main Battery 2 x 53.3cm Torpedo Tubes 4 x 45cm Torpedo Tubes Bahia class (Brazil) Displacement: 3100 tons Speed/Engine: 25 knots Armor: 19-76mm Armament: 10 x 120mm Main Battery 6 x 47mm Secondary Battery 2 x 45.7cm Torpedo Tubes Niels Juel class (Denmark) Displacement: 3400 tons Speed/Engine: 16 knots at 5500HP Armor: Unknown. Armament: 10 x 150mm Main Battery 4 x 57mm AA 2 x 45cm Torpedo Tubes T IV Gotland class (Sweden) Displacement: 4600 tons Speed/Engine: 27.5 knots Armor: Unknown Armament: 6 x 152mm Main Battery 4 x 75mm Secondary Battery 4 x 25mm AA 8 x 40mm AA (Added in 1944) 6 x 53.3cm Torpedo Tubes Aircraft: 6 x Hawker Osprey Java class (Netherlands) Displacement: 8087 tons Speed/Engine: 31 knots at 73000 SHP Armor: 25-75mm belt, 125mm Citadel Armament: 10 x 150mm Main Battery 8 x 40mm AA 8 x 12.7mm AA Aircraft: 2 x Fokker C.XI-W Blas de Lezo class (Spain) Displacement: 4780 tons Speed/Engine: 29 knots at 45000HP Armor: 25-75mm belt, 152mm Citadel Armament: 6 x 152mm Main Battery 4 x 47mm AA 12 x 53.3cm Torpedo Tubes Edited October 23, 2015 by Reaper_JackGBR 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SCRUB] ApesTogetherStronK [SCRUB] Players 1,074 posts Report post #2 Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) T V Veinticinco de Mayo class (Argentina) Displacement: 9000 tons Speed/Engine: 32 knots at 85000HP Armor: 25-70mm Armament: 6 x 190mm Main Battery 12 x 102mm Secondary Battery 6 x 40mm AA 6 x 53.3cm Torpedo Tubes Almirante Cervera class (Spain) Displacement: 9237 tons Speed/Engine: 33 knots at 80000HP Armor: 25-70mm belt, 150mm Citadel Armament: 8 x 152mm Main Battery 4 x 102mm Secondary Battery 6 x 47mm AA 12 x 53.3cm Torpedo Tubes De Ruyter class (Netherlands) Displacement: 6545 tons Speed/Engine: 32 knots at 66000SHP Armor: 30-50mm Armament: 7 x 150mm Main Battery 10 x 40mm AA 8 x 12.7mm AA Aircraft: 2 x Fokker C-11W Ning Hai class (China) Displacement: Around 3000 tons Speed/Engine: 23 knots Armor: 25-76mm Armament: 6 x 140mm Main Battery 6 x 76mm AA 10 x 7.7mm AA Aircraft: 2 T VI Tromp class (Netherlands) Displacement: 3400 tons Speed/Engine:32.5 knots at 56000SHP Armor: 38-64mm Armament: 6 x 149mm Main Battery 4 x 75mm AA 8 x 40mm AA 2 x 20mm AA 6 x 53.3cm Torpedo Tubes Aircraft: 1 x Fokker CXIW Floatplane T VII Tre Kronor class (Sweden) Displacement: 9200 tons Speed/Engine: 33 knots at 100000SHP Armor: 30-127mm Armament: 7 x 152mm Main Battery 20 x 40mm AA 7 x 25mm AA 6 x 53.3cm Torpedo Tubes T VIII Canarias class (Spain) Displacement: 13500 tons Speed/Engine: 33 knots at 90000HP Armor: 38-102mm Armament: 8 x 203mm Main Battery 8 x 119mm Secondary Battery 12 x 40mm AA 3 x 20mm AA 12 x 53.3cm Torpedo Tubes Edited October 23, 2015 by Reaper_JackGBR Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SCRUB] ApesTogetherStronK [SCRUB] Players 1,074 posts Report post #3 Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) Carriers T IV Rapana class (Netherlands) Displacement: 8011 tons Speed/Engine: 13 knots Armor: None Armament: 1 x 102mm Secondary Battery 8 x 20mm AA Aircraft: 4 x Fairey Swordfish (As an aside, I think the Rapana might be better placed as the only tier III carrier, and that all she has is the one squadron of 4 Fairey Swordfish, this way she can maintain historical accuracy without being underpowered, it would also be a good ship for CV pilots to learn the mechanics on. Of course, we would have to give TIII ships some AA too.) Edited October 23, 2015 by Reaper_JackGBR 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SCRUB] ApesTogetherStronK [SCRUB] Players 1,074 posts Report post #4 Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) Battleships & Battlecruisers T II Eidsvold class (Norway) Displacement: 4233 tons Speed/Engine: 17 knots at 4500HP Armor: Unknown Armament: 2 x 210mm Main Battery 6 x 150mm Secondary Battery 6 x 76mm Secondary Battery 2 x 76mm AA 2 x 20mm AA 2 x 12.7mm AA 4 x 7.92mm AA T III Radetzky class (Austria-Hungary) Displacement: 15845 tons Speed/Engine: 20.5 knots at 20000HP Armor: 48-250mm Armament: 4 x 305mm Main Battery 8 x 240mm Additional Main Battery 20 x 100mm Secondary Battery 4 x 37mm AA Tegetthoff class (Austria-Hungary) Displacement: 21600 tons Speed/Engine: 20 knots at 27000SHP Armor: 51-280mm Armament: 12 x 305mm Main Battery 12 x 150mm Secondary Battery 18 x 11 pounder Secondary Battery T IV Almirante Latorre class (Chile) Displacement: 32000 tons Speed/Engine: 23 knots at 37000HP Armor: 38-280mm Armament: 10 x 356mm Main Battery 16 x 152mm Secondary Battery 2 x 76mm AA Rivadavia class (Argentina) Displacement: 30100 tons Speed/Engine: 22.5 knots at 40000SHP Armor: Up to 300mm Armament: 12 x 305mm Main Battery 12 x 152mm Secondary Battery 16 x 102mm Secondary Battery Australia class Battlecruiser (Australia) [Australian modified Indefatigable class] Displacement: 22130 tons Speed/Engine: 25 knots at 44000SHP Armor: 38-178mm Armament: 8 x 305mm Main Battery 16 x 102mm Secondary Battery T V Resadiye class (Ottoman Empire) [Later HMS Erin] Displacement: 23000 tons Speed/Engine: 21 knots at 26500SHP Armor: 280-300mm Armament: 10 x 340mm Main Battery 16 x 150mm Secondary Battery 4 x 76mm AA T VI Project 1047 class (Netherlands) Displacement: 28000 tons Speed/Engine: 32 knots at 180000SHP Armor: 20-225mm Armament: 9 x 283mm Main Battery 12 x 120mm Secondary Battery 14 x 40mm AA 8 x 20mm AA Edited October 23, 2015 by Reaper_JackGBR 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SCRUB] ApesTogetherStronK [SCRUB] Players 1,074 posts Report post #5 Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) Destroyers T II Draug class (Norway) Displacement: 578 tons Speed/Engine: 26.5 knots at 8000SHP Armor: None Armament: 6 x 76mm Main Battery 1 x 12.7mm AA 3 x 45cm Torpedo Tubes Tatra class (Austria-Hungary) Displacement: 870 tons Speed/Engine: 32.5 knots at 20600SHP Armor: None Armament: 2 x 100mm Main Battery 6 x 66mm Secondary Battery 4 x 45cm Torpedo Tubes T III Regele Ferdinand class (Romania) Displacement: 1850 tons Speed/Engine: 35 knots at 48000SHP Armor: None Armament: 5 x 120mm Main Battery 4 x 76mm Secondary Battery/AA 2 x 40mm AA 2 x 13mm AA 6 x 53.3cm Torpedo Tubes Sleipner class (Norway) Displacement: 735 tons Speed/Engine: 32 knots at 12500SHP Armor: None Armament: 3 x 100mm Main Battery 1 x 40mm AA 2 x 12.7mm AA 2 x 53.3cm Torpedo Tubes T IV Mendoza class (Argentina) Displacement: 2154 tons Speed/Engine: 36 knots at 42000HP Armor: None Armament: 5 x 120mm Main Battery 1 x 76mm AA 2 x 2 pounder pom poms 6 x 53.3cm Torpedo Tubes Serrano class (Chile) Displacement: 1430 tons Speed/Engine: 35 knots at 28000HP Armor: None Armament: 3 x 120mm Main Battery 1 x 76mm AA 6 x 53.3cm Torpedo Tubes T V Churruca class (Spain) Displacement: 1650 tons Speed/Engine: 36 knots at 42000HP Armor: None Armament: 5 x 120mm Main Battery 1 x 76mm AA 4 x Light Machine gun AA 6 x 53.3cm Torpedo Tubes Douro Class (Portugal) Displacement: 1563 tons Speed/Engine: 36 knots at 33000SHP Armor: None Armament: 4 x 120mm Main Battery 2 x Vickers Mk. VIII 2 pounder AA 8 x 53cm Torpedo Tubes Admiralen class (Netherlands) Displacement: 1640 tons Speed/Engine: 36 knots at 31000HP Armor: None Armament: 4 x 120mm Main Battery 2 x 75mm AA 4 x 40mm AA 4 x 13mm AA 6 x 53,3cm Torpedo Tubes Aircraft: 1 x Seaplane Edited October 22, 2015 by Reaper_JackGBR Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SCRUB] ApesTogetherStronK [SCRUB] Players 1,074 posts Report post #6 Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) Destroyers Part II T VI Dubrovnik class (Yugoslavia) Displacement: 2400 tons Speed/Engine: 37 knots at 48000SHP Armor: None Armament: 4 x 140mm Main Battery 2 x 83.5mm AA 6 x 40mm AA 2 x 15mm AA 6 x 53.3cm Torpedo Tubes Ehrenskold class (Sweden) Displacement: 974 tons Speed/Engine: 36 knots at 3400SHP Armor: None Armament: 3 x 120mm Main Battery 2 x 40mm AA 6 x 53cm Torpedo Tubes T VII Goteborg class (Sweden) Displacement: 1240 tons Speed/Engine: 39 knots Armor: None Armament: 3 x 120mm Main Battery 4 x 25mm AA 6 x 53cm Torpedo Tubes T VIII Acre class (Brazil) Displacement: 1800 tons Speed/Engine: 35.5 knots at 34000SHP Armor: None Armament: 4 x 127mm Main Battery 2 x 40mm AA 4 x 20mm AA 6 x 53cm Torpedo Tubes T IX Visby class (Sweden) Displacement: 1320 tons Speed/Engine: 39 knots Armor: None Armament: 3 x 120mm Main Battery 4 x 40mm AA 4 x 20mm AA 6 x 53cm Torpedo Tubes T X Oland class (Sweden) Displacement: 2250 tons Speed/Engine: 35 knots Armor: None Armament: 4 x 120mm Main Battery 7 x 40mm AA 8 x 20mm AA 6 x 53cm Torpedo Tubes Edited October 22, 2015 by Reaper_JackGBR 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SCRUB] ApesTogetherStronK [SCRUB] Players 1,074 posts Report post #7 Posted October 22, 2015 And finally all finished, please let me know what you guys think! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[LAWS] Isitari Beta Tester 234 posts 12,720 battles Report post #8 Posted October 22, 2015 WoW(s)! Really impressive, like the variety of ships and the different playstyles I imagine it would give at each and every tier. Would be really challenging and fun to do! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[VG] Warlock_hero_defender Players 58 posts 8,081 battles Report post #9 Posted October 22, 2015 awesome work there, love the different ships :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SCRUB] ApesTogetherStronK [SCRUB] Players 1,074 posts Report post #10 Posted October 22, 2015 Thanks! The only annoying thing is that the Project 1047 class and Tre Konor Class are the last designs to be undertaken by any minor still in the Battleship era, there really is nothing else that can go above them tier wise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BKC] DBaron Beta Tester 465 posts 2,926 battles Report post #11 Posted October 22, 2015 I think you might wanna consider switching the Radetzky-class for the Tegetthoff-class - way more interesting BBs. But otherwise, great stuff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Viribus_Unitis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WatchdogCZ Players 173 posts 669 battles Report post #12 Posted October 23, 2015 Great idea. I would love to see one of the Austro-Hungarian Tegetthoff class dreadnoughts such as SMS Viribus Unitis or SMS Szent István in the battleship tech tree, even if as a Tier IV-V Premium. An idea for a Premium Tier II cruiser would be the light/protected cruiser SMS Zenta: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Zenta She was sunk in 1914 in a desperate fight against 37 Entente ships: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Antivari 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SCRUB] ApesTogetherStronK [SCRUB] Players 1,074 posts Report post #13 Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) I'll add both of those tomorrow, I didn't have a limit per tier in mind, all designs are welcome but obviously only one can get picked in game and then premiums. Though saying that, there's almost enough stuff to have separate EU Minors and then Rest of the World minors as two different trees. Oh and Radetzky had exactly inbetween the number of guns on a Kawachi and South Cary so that's why I put it in. Edited October 23, 2015 by Reaper_JackGBR Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BOTES] ShuggieHamster [BOTES] Players 807 posts 13,196 battles Report post #14 Posted October 23, 2015 awesome work and seriously interesting ... might be worth formatting them into word/publisher pdf and sending them into WG as a proposal. A minor nations tech tree might be attractive to them. You might even get the chance of a discounted bundle for your work! ;o) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Historynerd Beta Tester 4,249 posts 848 battles Report post #15 Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) I am completely perplexed by the fact that not only Almirante Latorre is a Tier lower than Rivadavia, while I would see it rather the other way around... but the fact that you put her in the same Tier with a pre-dreadnought battleship (even weirder considering that the A-H Navy did have a class of dreadnought built and who saw wartime service, too)! Edit: After reading it up a bit (thing that I should've done before answering), I came to the conclusion that, either than being in separate Tiers, the two battleship classes should be more or less equivalent and therefore in the same Tier, IMHO. Edited October 23, 2015 by Historynerd Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr3awsome Alpha Tester 3,769 posts 58 battles Report post #16 Posted October 23, 2015 I love how you tier the same ship at three different tiers. Regele Ferdinand, Mendoza and Churruca are all derived from the same design with very little difference between them. As for the rest, the idea is sound, the implementation is somewhat lacklustre. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Historynerd Beta Tester 4,249 posts 848 battles Report post #17 Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) I love how you tier the same ship at three different tiers. Regele Ferdinand, Mendoza and Churruca are all derived from the same design with very little difference between them. As for the rest, the idea is sound, the implementation is somewhat lacklustre. So you think that the Rivadavia-class is superior to the Almirante Latorre-class? As far as I can see, the armament comparison seems to favor the Chilean battleship, with a heavier broadside, against the Argentine's design better RoF and more or less the same maximum range. When it comes down to armor I'd say that the Rivadavia comes out on top, and they have pretty much the same top speed. To be honest, I'd see them as more belonging to the same Tier than anything else (and my previous comment was wrong). Unless I'm missing a big part of the picture... Edited October 23, 2015 by Historynerd Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhroX Beta Tester 210 posts 1,190 battles Report post #18 Posted October 23, 2015 While I'm no expert, from what I know of the South American dreadnoughts, I'd agree with Historynerd - the Almirante Latorre should not be lower tier than Rivadavia. The former had much better firepower - although the Argentine ships could in theory put more guns in a broadside, doing so caused significant damage to the ship, so in practice we're talking 10x14" guns vs 10x12" guns - which counteracts the latters armour advantage. So putting them both at the same tier - probably 4 - would make sense. And regardless of their relative positions, there's no way the Latorre is a T3 ship - while I don't know the exact performance of the guns, in terms of number and calibre, she has the same broadside as a New York. She's not that fast, and her armour is nothing to write home about, so I think she can fit at T4, but there's no way she could go lower than that. The Brazilian Minas Geraes class would be a better option for a T3 dreadnought, with a 10x12" gun broadside, but only a 9" belt. Still, a nice list overall Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SCRUB] ApesTogetherStronK [SCRUB] Players 1,074 posts Report post #19 Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) Unfortunately I haven't read too much into more detailed stats (such as RoF and tactical advantages) yet, and based the tierings off of year designed/constructed more than anything, I will revise the list based on suggestions however. Edited October 23, 2015 by Reaper_JackGBR Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SCRUB] ApesTogetherStronK [SCRUB] Players 1,074 posts Report post #20 Posted October 23, 2015 I love how you tier the same ship at three different tiers. Regele Ferdinand, Mendoza and Churruca are all derived from the same design with very little difference between them. As for the rest, the idea is sound, the implementation is somewhat lacklustre. Bear in mind that there are alternatives in all 3 of those tiers too, I wanted to gather an assortment of ships from as many navies as possible for flavor, besides, we all know WG has the *same* ship at different tiers sometimes. (Looking at you Dresden and Kolberg) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr3awsome Alpha Tester 3,769 posts 58 battles Report post #21 Posted October 23, 2015 So you think that the Rivadavia-class is superior to the Almirante Latorre-class? No, thats part of the "implentation being lacklustre" part. we all know WG has the *same* ship at different tiers sometimes. (Looking at you Dresden and Kolberg) Whilst they are similar, they aren't the same ship. However, something closer to Konigsberg ii would probably have helped in that regard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jagdpants_666 Players 207 posts 2,515 battles Report post #22 Posted October 23, 2015 So I was thinking a little earlier today, this wouldn't (eventually) be World of Warships unless we include the whole World's roster of combat vessels right? Good point. "World of Certain Selected Warships" doesn't have quite the same ring to it. Obviously you'll never have every riverboat that ever touched water, but eventually you should be able to play all nations that had an at least somewhat noteworthy naval presence during the WW1-WW2 era. And combination tech trees would probably be a quite practical solution to include navies that can't really fill a tree on their own. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Zeromancer_ Players 171 posts 1,317 battles Report post #23 Posted October 23, 2015 Great idea! Give us real ships, not paperships. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Historynerd Beta Tester 4,249 posts 848 battles Report post #24 Posted October 23, 2015 No, thats part of the "implentation being lacklustre" part. Oh, I see. Sorry! I should have known better! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SCRUB] ApesTogetherStronK [SCRUB] Players 1,074 posts Report post #25 Posted October 24, 2015 Good point. "World of Certain Selected Warships" doesn't have quite the same ring to it. Obviously you'll never have every riverboat that ever touched water, but eventually you should be able to play all nations that had an at least somewhat noteworthy naval presence during the WW1-WW2 era. And combination tech trees would probably be a quite practical solution to include navies that can't really fill a tree on their own. The idea of a 'combination tech tree' isn't new, I just figured I'd make this mock up to represent the potential ship classes that would be available for use in it. Rather than relegating most of the available ships to Premium one off status, an entire tree becomes viable with this number of classes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
