New German cruiser line.. the paper citadel

[cookiemonster66]

I'm's sure many will accuse the dev's of bias against German design's after the introduction of German cruisers. Sometimes its hard not to disagree with them especially when you take 90% citadel hits over a 30 game trial, yes thats right in 27 out of 30 games the Hipper took 27 single or multiple Citadel hits, range didnt matter angle of the ship didnt matter and it appears ammo and enemy gun size also doesnt matter. Everything pens much detonates the citadel. Hippers quoted armour stats are 20-80mm which would seem to easily answer the citadel question..Except due to desighn and armour quality the German ships could actually take a massive beating before sinking. Do the dev's even take quality into account or blindly just quote paper stats. The Bismark was literally pounded for hours and recieved multiple torp hits before sinking, the tirpitz survived years of attacks both above and below the surface. Which brings me back to the Hipper which also took many massive poundings without blowing up or sinking. Yet in this game they explode almost every game, come one fix it before "Russian dev bias" actually becomes more believable.

[cookiemonster66]

I'm's sure many will accuse the dev's of bias against German design's after the introduction of German cruisers. Sometimes its hard not to disagree with them especially when you take 90% citadel hits over a 30 game trial, yes thats right in 27 out of 30 games the Hipper took 27 single or multiple Citadel hits, range didnt matter angle of the ship didnt matter and it appears ammo and enemy gun size also doesnt matter. Everything pens much detonates the citadel. Hippers quoted armour stats are 20-80mm which would seem to easily answer the citadel question..Except due to desighn and armour quality the German ships could actually take a massive beating before sinking. Do the dev's even take quality into account or blindly just quote paper stats. The Bismark was literally pounded for hours and recieved multiple torp hits before sinking, the tirpitz survived years of attacks both above and below the surface. Which brings me back to the Hipper which also took many massive poundings without blowing up or sinking. Yet in this game they explode almost every game, come one fix it before "Russian dev bias" actually becomes more believable.

 

anyone else experience the same, and please dont go on about range being the answer at 16.1 stock and 17.7 upgraded you cant stay outside the range of most same or higher tiered enemy cruisers and BB's. And you are spotted even quicker than many battleships and become the focus for every ship looking for a 1 or 2 hit kill.

[SailingDutchy]

Watch out mate you can get a warning for insult the mods,producer of the developers 

[damo74]

That T2 german cruiser is a laugh. Instead of naval guns it seems to be fitted with mortars

[RuaMat]

german cruiser choises are bad or their stats are... all of them moving slower than death.. and their weapons are mehh..

[LazyVegetable]

german cruiser choises are bad or their stats are... all of them moving slower than death.. and their weapons are mehh..

 

German cruises are basically HE spam machines.

[cookiemonster66]

SU33UB, on 21 October 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

Watch out mate you can get a warning for insult the mods,producer of the developers 

 

Not aiming to insult them mate just pointing out many players claim a bias, the weakness of these ships despite historical record of their actual survivability and ability to take a huge pounding before sinking is a bit hard to swallow. Hopefully reviewed data will give german cruisers a much needed buff to survivability cos frankly there is no fun to them when they explode at the hint of a hit.
 

LazyVegetable, on 21 October 2015 - 10:47 AM, said:

 

German cruises are basically HE spam machines.

 

later German cruisers actualy have worst HE damage in the cruiser line.
 

[LazyVegetable]

 

later German cruisers actualy have worst HE damage in the cruiser line.

 

Dunno about the higher tiers, but so far my experience with them is just spam HE at everything because AP is awful.

[Gunship14]

 

German cruises are basically HE spam machines.

 

They don't even do that well though. St. Louis all the way up to Cleveland are better HE spamming ships than the german cruisers of the same tiers.

[cookiemonster66]

german cruiser choises are bad or their stats are... all of them moving slower than death.. and their weapons are mehh..

 

i would place Hipper on a similar level to the Myoko or pensacola with fewer guns and many more flaws and yes the weapons are mediocre....i have heard hindenberg is a beast, that remains to be seen...rest blow.

[LazyVegetable]

 

They don't even do that well though. St. Louis all the way up to Cleveland are better HE spamming ships than the german cruisers of the same tiers.

 

I know, but the AP performance so far for me (up to tier 3) is pretty awful, and i'm aiming specificaly for citadels...i actually got more citadels firing HE than AP.

[cookiemonster66]

 

They don't even do that well though. St. Louis all the way up to Cleveland are better HE spamming ships than the german cruisers of the same tiers.

 

Wishing i hadnt started this discussion hearing my concerns echoed here is making me wanna cry lol.

 

[CensorMeDaddyWG]

 

Wishing i hadnt started this discussion hearing my concerns echoed here is making me wanna cry lol.

 

 

Go over to the german cruiser feedback thread from wargaming and voice your concerns there =)

[Gatt]

It will take WG some months to figure out that german CA line is weak. They need stats.

 

Then they will buff the line ... someday and someway. I'll get the Hipper and then leave her in the dock till that moment. She is always a beauty, like the Tirpitz.

[Vaderan]

Haven´t played the Hipper yet, just met her on the other side of my gunbarrels. Playing the Pensacola, i love to hunt enemy cruisers and pounding their citadels. Many cruisers are rather simple to citadell, if the captain doesn´t angle them, but for the few situations i met the Hipper so far, i have to say it almost felt ridiculously simple to score multiple citadells with a single salvo.

Heck, the first Hipper i met took 6 hits on some 15km range, 4 penetrating, 2 citadells, and before i was able to score more hits, my division mate in has Atago and a Myoko had already smoked her...

Not sure wether it was pure luck, bad play by the Hipper, or working as intended...

 

I personally quit with the german cruisers at tier 3. Kolberg is just annoying, and since i am not willing to waste time on the Karlsruhe or spend the free XP to skip it, i just left it. Right now, considering the feedback on this line, it doesn´t seem to be a line worth to spend time on...

[MudMonkey]

It will take WG some months to figure out that german CA line is weak. They need stats.

 

Then they will buff the line ... someday and someway. I'll get the Hipper and then leave her in the dock till that moment. She is always a beauty, like the Tirpitz.

 

You are probably right there. I also thought something like that.

But I just have to look at all the stats to see that this line is weak. I have the feeling that there were no balancing tests at all and the line was rushed into the game.

[Gatt]

 I have the feeling that there were no balancing tests at all and the line was rushed into the game.

 

I guess so. Moreover, I think that the german CA line is the first light CA line in game. No matter what history books say, the WoWS' Hipper (and the others), if compared with WoWS' IJN and USN cruisers, can be considered light CA. Add to this the weirdness of the german shells' dmg ....

[BuccaneerBill]

Don't think the German armour quality was better than other nations but didn't the Hipper have an inclined deck behind the belt in the same way the Bismarck and older capital ships had.

 

The Hipper class didn't seem particularly strong in WW2.

[Gatt]

Don't think the German armour quality was better than other nations but didn't the Hipper have an inclined deck behind the belt in the same way the Bismarck and older capital ships had.

 

The Hipper class didn't seem particularly strong in WW2.

 

Perhaps not "so strong". 80mm are always 80mm. However, only a fool would have clashed with Hood and PoW with a glass cruiser like the WoWS's one.

[kennydbt]

Well the T1 does have a big citadel if you drop shells on to the deck.

The T2 well it is not big hard to hit I say. I get a few now and them but not every game unlike the T1

The T3 not got a citadel hit yet. no when I play this ship do I get hit in the citadel every game most of the time not.

 

not played any of the other ship yet so we will have to see.

 

what about the Orlan it turrets blow if you so much as look at them in a funny way.

[BansheeLemming]

So. You think ze germans are weak?

Good to hear cause then the germans stats (games played with germans I mean)  will be weak and wont receive any kind of nerv.

(which in my opinion is likely to come if only some of you have the kind of results I do)

Königsberg is my Confederate monster.

 

HE spam does not work. you can have 200+ hits and come out with 20k dmge. yay.

The trick is to stay at long range where you can plunge your AP shells into the enemys deckarmour. Disable guns, penetrate citadels. And dmge against tBBs superstructure works surprisingly good with AP, too.

 

Dont shoot AP at german side armour. They basically are paper. No armour means no dmge due to overpenetrations.

 

When you get to tier V, Königsberg, you will have to decide if this line is fun for you.

If you use Cleveland HE spam tactics you should stay off this line. Cause the HE dmge is very, very weak.

use AP for everything and everyone. Even DDs get their 4k dmge with 6 hits. Sure HE is still the prefered choice vs DDs but AP does work surprisingly well.

BBs: shoot their superstructure and youll see 4-6k every 8 seconds. (150mm guns)

 

The german guns have exceptionally good AP penetration and damage stats. Did yu compare them to the other nations' guns?

203mm from tier 8 and up: 5900dmge.

IJN: 5400 max.

US: dunno, weaker.

The 150mm do more dmge than the US 152s.

[Vaderan]

 

Perhaps not "so strong". 80mm are always 80mm. However, only a fool would have clashed with Hood and PoW with a glass cruiser like the WoWS's one.

 

Indeed, the Hippers belt armor was considerable weak for it´s class. However, it was angled in a way to deflect incoming shells or slow them down, so they might fail to penetrate the inclined deck behind. How to rate the Wotan Hart material compared to other nations steel, i can´t evaluate though...

 

Anyway, she was not designed to take on BCs or BBs, but on the other hand, they were rather solid ships. Admiral Hipper was rammed by a british DD, and Prinz Eugen rammed Nürnberg (or was it Leipzig?), and while both of the smaller vessels suffered significant damage, the heavy cruisers just took minor damage.

Yeah, rcollisions are different to shell impacts, but it somehow shows that the Hippers were quiet durable.

[DBaron]

So. You think ze germans are weak?

Good to hear cause then the germans stats (games played with germans I mean)  will be weak and wont receive any kind of nerv.

(which in my opinion is likely to come if only some of you have the kind of results I do)

Königsberg is my Confederate monster.

 

HE spam does not work. you can have 200+ hits and come out with 20k dmge. yay.

The trick is to stay at long range where you can plunge your AP shells into the enemys deckarmour. Disable guns, penetrate citadels. And dmge against tBBs superstructure works surprisingly good with AP, too.

 

Dont shoot AP at german side armour. They basically are paper. No armour means no dmge due to overpenetrations.

 

When you get to tier V, Königsberg, you will have to decide if this line is fun for you.

If you use Cleveland HE spam tactics you should stay off this line. Cause the HE dmge is very, very weak.

use AP for everything and everyone. Even DDs get their 4k dmge with 6 hits. Sure HE is still the prefered choice vs DDs but AP does work surprisingly well.

BBs: shoot their superstructure and youll see 4-6k every 8 seconds. (150mm guns)

 

The german guns have exceptionally good AP penetration and damage stats. Did yu compare them to the other nations' guns?

203mm from tier 8 and up: 5900dmge.

IJN: 5400 max.

US: dunno, weaker.

The 150mm do more dmge than the US 152s.

 

Yes, I did have some fantastic games with T5 and T6, but those were the exception. Mostly I just got 1 or 2-shotted  by anything coming in range, regardless of angle or ammo typ. And I think I need about 5 spare engines for those ships as they loose them like no other

[BansheeLemming]

well.. You must not have any enemy shooting at you.

Königsberg is a glass cannon.

Dishes out. Cannot take back.

 

The angle doesnt matter. I got citadel-ed from 305s with superp bow angling.

Your mid-ship is an engine, your stern is one big rudder.

All you say is true. But when you manage to stay out of the enemys focus you can have a monster game.

Theres got to be a balancing factor for the epic guns you have.

 

16.4km range means you can stay out of anyone's range quite comfy.

Superp AP dmge and penetration means you can have fast kills ,)

 

btw:

I got the Königsberg in last week's event. With her nerved AP dmge.

Still I had Confederate games one after the other.

[D7v]

New German cruisers starting from tier 5 are exceptionally good if you know what you are doing, I think they might even get a slight nerf in the future.