Soviet destroyers suck!

[ShockPirat]

Yup. Totally underpowered

 

[Shanaar]

I concur

 

[Vulgarny]

Wanna see your feeling after playing t7+

 

[Ranzir]

Wanna see your feeling after playing t7+

 

After quick check of tech tree I think it peaks at tier 7 'Kiev': 6 130 mm gives it gearing like firepower while speed and agility are quick enough to allow it to dictate range in positioning in most engagements.

[Vulgarny]

OFc did you check also detect range of this dds and ofc hidden change about spot range after firing guns?

[WatchdogCZ]

Yes, they suck terribly, unless you are terribly lucky. I am quite frustrated. As soon as I fire a gun, even from maximum range, I am spotted. My torpedoes have a laughable range and unless I face reckless idiots who drive straight around islands I stand no chance to actually be able to use the torpedoes.

 

And as soon as I am spotted and any cruiser who is not a total idiot is within range and LOS, I am dead.

 

What is the role of the Russian/Soviet destroyers? To provide free kills for the enemy? I cannot think of a role for them.

[ShockPirat]

I haven't noticed any change to detection range when firing when I played my Gremy.

Speaking of which...

 

 

 

I know it's not the same as regular Soviet Destroyers since it actually has usable torps, but all torp hits in this particular game were scored in 3 km range. Gnevny would have done that better.

[WatchdogCZ]

I haven't noticed any change to detection range when firing when I played my Gremy.

Speaking of which...

 

 

 

I know it's not the same as regular Soviet Destroyers since it actually has usable torps, but all torp hits in this particular game were scored in 3 km range. Gnevny would have done that better.

 

Stop playing Gremmy and try some of the regular DD's.

[ShockPirat]

 

Stop playing Gremmy and try some of the regular DD's.

 

I sure do get lucky often

 

[GulvkluderGuld]

 

I sure do get lucky often

 

 

I'm affraid I didn't save any post-battle results but

 

 

Those russian DDs definitely suck (not!)

[OopsIPennedYouAgain]

Well they changed (dk whether intentionally or not) the effect of the 130mm guns to the concealment. Before it was 4km(gremy still has the 4km) and now you'll get detected 6!!km further while shooting.

 

Tested it in training room and it makes the tier 5-8 nearly unplayable. When we were given the ognevoi for the few days it had a detection Range of 7.5km(with Camo) and 11.5 while shooting and now it is 13.5km while shooting, which is kinda hard considering the maximum range you can achieve is 14.4km.

 

Regarding the kiev it's even worse. It has a detection range of 8.7km (with camo) and a maximum range of 14.7km (4th skill) and you'll get spotted everytime you shoot at something. To do 'invisi firing' you need to have the 5th skill otherwise ist useless.

 

Tashkent is not even Worth mentioning.

Tier IX and X are fine due to modules etc but up to Tier 9 they need to so something!

 

[CatOnKeyboard]

Considering Wargaming's track record with Russian bias I expected the Soviet Destroyer torpedos to have 30km range and travel at 200kt, but am I glad they're trash.

 

[ShockPirat]

Wow, that concealment change does suck quite a bit. Strange Gremy avoided it.

Well, I'll still go up the line. Having tons of fun so far

[Rabid_Turnip]

Considering Wargaming's track record with Russian bias I expected the Soviet Destroyer torpedos to have 30km range and travel at 200kt, but am I glad they're trash.

 

 

You forgot 'and have nuclear shaped-charge warheads'

[Cosseria]

Getting out of the first three tiers has been tough. Every battle was filled with German uberkreuzers who tore me to pieces every time I dared to open fire. Now I'm at T IV and I feel like I'm in a CL but without armor. That thing turns like a garbage truck and only Tachibana is slower. I do admit that it's great for killing other destroyers, tough.

[Longy221]

Got the Gnevny now, and playing it has consistently been some of the most fun I've ever had in this game. Really looking forward to the tier 7

 

[jarskog]

Well they changed (dk whether intentionally or not) the effect of the 130mm guns to the concealment. Before it was 4km(gremy still has the 4km) and now you'll get detected 6!!km further while shooting.

 

Tested it in training room and it makes the tier 5-8 nearly unplayable. When we were given the ognevoi for the few days it had a detection Range of 7.5km(with Camo) and 11.5 while shooting and now it is 13.5km while shooting, which is kinda hard considering the maximum range you can achieve is 14.4km.

 

Regarding the kiev it's even worse. It has a detection range of 8.7km (with camo) and a maximum range of 14.7km (4th skill) and you'll get spotted everytime you shoot at something. To do 'invisi firing' you need to have the 5th skill otherwise ist useless.

 

Tashkent is not even Worth mentioning.

Tier IX and X are fine due to modules etc but up to Tier 9 they need to so something!

 

 

This change in concealment to +4 km when firing was implemented after tests on the live server. It's quite obvious that the WG did not want RU DD to be long-range HE spammer. We must also look to the effect of the RU DD on other DD's. What impact will those amazing guns have on US DD for example. There has been made several other adjustments also before the release to the public servers.

 

But I don't agree with that tier 5-8 is nearly unplayable. That it is not my experience at all. I find them very competitive still after this changes.

[Aguirre23]

 

This change in concealment to +4 km when firing was implemented after tests on the live server. It's quite obvious that the WG did not want RU DD to be long-range HE spammer. We must also look to the effect of the RU DD on other DD's. What impact will those amazing guns have on US DD for example. There has been made several other adjustments also before the release to the public servers.

 

But I don't agree with that tier 5-8 is nearly unplayable. That it is not my experience at all. I find them very competitive still after this changes.

 

Do we have some concrete patch notes on this? Anyone knows some spreadsheet with new concealment values?

 

Some real problem with playing soviet dds right now is the tiers being full of [edited]cruisers only.

[44smok]

Basically soviets have extra 2 km penalty to camo when shooting.

[OopsIPennedYouAgain]

 

This change in concealment to +4 km when firing was implemented after tests on the live server. It's quite obvious that the WG did not want RU DD to be long-range HE spammer. We must also look to the effect of the RU DD on other DD's. What impact will those amazing guns have on US DD for example. There has been made several other adjustments also before the release to the public servers.

 

But I don't agree with that tier 5-8 is nearly unplayable. That it is not my experience at all. I find them very competitive still after this changes.

 

Well if you're up against at least decent opponents you're screwed if you don't have the 5th skill.

Lets take a look at the Kiev for example. Here's mine:

 

 

The maximum range of the kiev is as you can see 14.7km. This includes the 4th skill. The best concealment you can get is 7.9km (5th skill) and while shooting you get a penalty of 6km so 13.9km. Without the fith skill you cant even shoot undetected (not even mentioning people who don't even have the 4th skill).

Have fun with a fast moving cruiser, thats permaspotted when shooting, has no aa and low health. yh cool right?

 

Now lets take a look at the Tashkent:

It has an even worse basic concealment of 9.4km

(3% Camo): 9.4 - (9.4*0,03) = 9.4 - 0,282 (~0,3) = 9.1km.

9.1 *0,1 (5th skill ,-10%) = 0.91; 9.1- 0.91= 8.19km

8.19 * 0.1 (Module, -10%) = 0.819;

8.19- 0.819= 7.371 ~ 7.4

Due to the 6km penalty you'll be spotted at 13.4km whilest shooting.

The max. range of the Tashkent is withouth skills 11.6km. Now we add the 20% (4th skill):

11.6 + (11.6*0.2) = 11.6 + 2.32 = 13.92.

 

13.92-13.4 = 0.52km so roundabout just over 500m and that is only when you have the 5th skill.

.

 

[jarskog]

Now lets take a look at the Tashkent:

It has an even worse basic concealment of 9.4km

(3% Camo): 9.4 - (9.4*0,03) = 9.4 - 0,282 (~0,3) = 9.1km.

9.1 *0,1 (5th skill ,-10%) = 0.91; 9.1- 0.91= 8.19km

8.19 * 0.1 (Module, -10%) = 0.819;

8.19- 0.819= 7.371 ~ 7.4

Due to the 6km penalty you'll be spotted at 13.4km whilest shooting.

The max. range of the Tashkent is withouth skills 11.6km. Now we add the 20% (4th skill):

11.6 + (11.6*0.2) = 11.6 + 2.32 = 13.92.

 

13.92-13.4 = 0.52km so roundabout just over 500m and that is only when you have the 5th skill.

.

 

 

I have no reason to question your calculations and can only agree that it will be hard, if not impossible, to fire your guns undetected. But still I have find a good tactic for the RU DD and have a lot of fun in them. Since I primarily played the US DD before, I'm used to be very cautious when I shoot and on whom. In RU DD I play much the same way but knowing that the guns are even more dangerous.

 

I hope you find a way to enjoy the RU DD-line too.

[Ranzir]

 

This change in concealment to +4 km when firing was implemented after tests on the live server. It's quite obvious that the WG did not want RU DD to be long-range HE spammer. We must also look to the effect of the RU DD on other DD's. What impact will those amazing guns have on US DD for example. There has been made several other adjustments also before the release to the public servers.

 

But I don't agree with that tier 5-8 is nearly unplayable. That it is not my experience at all. I find them very competitive still after this changes.

 

I don't mind camo nerf, imo invis-fire is broken game mechanic and while helping poorly performing US DDs in mid tiers, it is not something that this game needs and certainly not what Soviet DDs need. I managed to do well enough with Ognevoi (without commander skill to boost range) and pump in steady gun damage. You just need to stay in 10-12km range where you can get steady hits and enemies can't hit you reliably. And when opportunity comes up, go f* up DDs or CVs.

 

DDs in general are very opportunistic ships, you need to stay relatively safe, look for opportunities where you can give flanking fire or make a run for BB or CV that has run into bad position.

[caferaca]

I have good crew from my Murmansk so I used my free xp to get the Ongevoi. No screenshots but got 110k dmg on the first game, 50k + on the 2nd. Early days but promising. That's good damage for any t6 ship.

I was constantly spotted & being shot at, but still ducked and dived whilst spamming HE and fires. Also got in close and nuked a New Mexico as a bonus. Sitting at 10-12k out, you can accurately hit BB's and they can't easily hit you it seems.

The larger HP pool of these Soviet DD is also welcome and compliments the above play style.

 

Just my initial thoughts.

[OopsIPennedYouAgain]

 

I have no reason to question your calculations and can only agree that it will be hard, if not impossible, to fire your guns undetected. But still I have find a good tactic for the RU DD and have a lot of fun in them. Since I primarily played the US DD before, I'm used to be very cautious when I shoot and on whom. In RU DD I play much the same way but knowing that the guns are even more dangerous.

 

I hope you find a way to enjoy the RU DD-line too.

 

Well I can surely understand some posts and that it was op, but they shouldve give us maybe like 2.5km with the 5th skill to maneuver and shoot undetected at tier 7+. Especially planes will give you a hard (or more like spotted ;) ) time

 

Im not doin too bad in my Kiev so far, as you can see:

But I would surely do way better if the corridor for invisi-fire would be around 1km further.

It can be fun sure, but it mostly correlates with hard work and that what's kinda bothering me.

[Kenliero]

Now lets take a look at the Tashkent:

It has an even worse basic concealment of 9.4km

(3% Camo): 9.4 - (9.4*0,03) = 9.4 - 0,282 (~0,3) = 9.1km.

9.1 *0,1 (5th skill ,-10%) = 0.91; 9.1- 0.91= 8.19km

8.19 * 0.1 (Module, -10%) = 0.819;

8.19- 0.819= 7.371 ~ 7.4

Due to the 6km penalty you'll be spotted at 13.4km whilest shooting.

The max. range of the Tashkent is withouth skills 11.6km. Now we add the 20% (4th skill):

11.6 + (11.6*0.2) = 11.6 + 2.32 = 13.92.

 

13.92-13.4 = 0.52km so roundabout just over 500m and that is only when you have the 5th skill.

.

 

MODS: Advanced Firing Training + Camouflage

tier 8 Tashkent:         Detection range: 9.4km (MODS:8.21km) +5.9km when shooting=14.11km vs Weaponrange 11.6km(AFT: 13.92km) = No Invisibility even with AFT, if you don't have 5th skill!!! That is baad