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Hindenburg Impression - German Cruiser Bad!? Wrong Play-style or Design?

Which Cruiser do you think is the best so far  

169 members have voted

  1. 1. Which Cruiser do you think is the best so far

    • Zao
      93
    • USS Des Moines
      29
    • Hindenburg
      24
    • NONE
      9
    • Iowa (LOL)
      14

31 comments in this topic

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[K-ON]
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Hi everyone, this is my first post in the forum, wish everyone is having a good time.

 

I just got my hands on the Kriegsmarine Hindenburg and I would like to share(complain) some of the issues I have had so far.

Pros:

Long range good shell fly time. 20km in 12.5ish sec (Gun Fire Control Mod 2 added)  performance on par with Tirpitz.

Large HP pool

Good rate of fire

decent maneuverability

 

Con:

HE damage next to nothing

AP only works at close range (<10km) or against low tier CA  (works at far range but not much damage anyway)

HE fire chance next to zero

Detected at 16km (Beacon of light)

Here are some results screenshots:

11111.png22222.png333333.png444444.png

55555.png

I used Capt skills to increase the chance of fire to 14%, but it feels like 5% a lot more worse compared to Zao.

Also the HE damage somehow feels like it's doing nothing at all.

 

>>>>Overall, it's feels like a tier X Cleveland (well with torps hardly used at all) . <<<<

Since it's really a bad idea to get near the enemy fleet, the majority of my time with this ship is upsetting enemy BB with long range fire (no damage dealt, only increasing frustration to the enemy Capt)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Had some more time with the Hindenburg and tested ap capability with Yamato (thanks to JJ, since I ran into him in a 1V1 battle)

Here are the results:

15KM  full salvo (multiple pen, it seems that 5000ish damage is the best you can get in one salvo)

ap1.jpg

10KM 1 turret firing (single shot pen, it seems that one penetration is 600-700 damage)

ap2.jpg

5KM 1 turret firing (three shot pen)

ap3.pngap4.png

I also got similar 5000 damage with other targets such as North Carolina and Iowa

 

Special thanks to JJRu5tY for helping me out testing!

---------------------------------------------------

Some more impressions on the ship.

1 about the 16KM detection range

It's ok to keep away from front-line but as you damage more enemies and get them frustrated, you will be the top of their kill list. Getting concentrated fire means dodging bullets is nearly impossible.

 

2 about the 6KM torp

At least torps on the IJN cruiser line torps can be used defensively (to drive away enemy chasing you at around 10-15km), or used offensively (light speed torp on zao, hard to evade during cqc).

6Km torp, well besides suicidal mission I did not see it's use in any other useful circumstances.

 

I am not complaining to buff the torp. Since the play-style of this ship is long-range artillery, how about removing the torp and buff the guns a bit?

 

11111.png

22222.png

333333.png

444444.png

55555.png

ap1.jpg

ap2.jpg

ap3.png

ap4.png

  • Cool 1

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[KLLCV]
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I think the fire chance perk of the commander is not additive. Meaning if u have a 5% chance of fire, and captain skill adds 3%.....its not 8%, but 5+(5*0.03)0.15 = 5.15%. I might be wrong with this but there is a reason why hardly anybody picks the fire skill. 

 

Not to mention, shouldn't u pick the AA perk at the 4th tier of captain skills?

 

Also, even before release, it was always regarded as the escort ship. Meaning crap concealment & crap armor layout go hand in hand with its awesome range. Nevertheless, it does worry me that it has turned into a Des Moins 2.0, and we all know how she performs in high tiers.

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I think the fire chance perk of the commander is not additive. Meaning if u have a 5% chance of fire, and captain skill adds 3%.....its not 8%, but 5+(5*0.03)0.15 = 5.15%. I might be wrong with this but there is a reason why hardly anybody picks the fire skill. 

 

Not to mention, shouldn't u pick the AA perk at the 4th tier of captain skills?

 

Also, even before release, it was always regarded as the escort ship. Meaning crap concealment & crap armor layout go hand in hand with its awesome range. Nevertheless, it does worry me that it has turned into a Des Moins 2.0, and we all know how she performs in high tiers.

thanks for the advice. I'll try the AA out since fire chance is pretty slim anyway. However it's just a plus system not multiplication.

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I think the fire chance perk of the commander is not additive. Meaning if u have a 5% chance of fire, and captain skill adds 3%.....its not 8%, but 5+(5*0.03)0.15 = 5.15%. I might be wrong with this but there is a reason why hardly anybody picks the fire skill. 

 

 

It is additive, that was confirmed in beta by one of the devs, cant find the thread now.  The tier 2 fire prevention skill is cumulative tho.

 

 

EDIT: Funny seeing ppl vote for Des Moines as best tier 10 cruisers, while on average it performs worst among all tier 10 ships, even DDs :P Also in a stream few days ago one of devs said that tier 9-10 german cruisers seems to be underperforming from the data hey gathered and will require some buffing.

Edited by Nefczi

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[KLLCV]
Beta Tester
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It is additive, that was confirmed in beta by one of the devs, cant find the thread now.  The tier 2 fire prevention skill is cumulative tho.

 

 

EDIT: Funny seeing ppl vote for Des Moines as best tier 10 cruisers, while on average it performs worst among all tier 10 ships, even DDs :P Also in a stream few days ago one of devs said that tier 9-10 german cruisers seems to be underperforming from the data hey gathered and will require some buffing.

 

Ah, knew something was cumulative, was either the tier 2 skill or 4, ah well.......3% more fire chance.....yay:trollface:

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[-5D-]
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To give a Cruiser a detection range equal to that of battleships is S T U P I D!!!!:amazed:

 

16.1KM detection is crazy.  The Yamato has a detection range of 18km. 16km is the concealment range of IOWA, Montana, Amagi, and Izumo.  Even the North Carolina has a better concealment range at 15 over a CRUISER????  :P

 

:honoring:

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To give a Cruiser a detection range equal to that of battleships is S T U P I D!!!!:amazed:

 

16.1KM detection is crazy.  The Yamato has a detection range of 18km. 16km is the concealment range of IOWA, Montana, Amagi, and Izumo.  Even the North Carolina has a better concealment range at 15 over a CRUISER????  :P

 

:honoring:

 

I believe WG wanted to make a different play-style with the Hindenburg compared to the other cruisers. Since Zao is like a sniper that hides between the crossfires (10km detection) and picks off targets with fire damage (high chance of fire 22% with Capt skill). DM I did not have the luck to play with it so I cant say anything.

So WG decided to make a AP shooting long range (20.55km) fast rate (6 rpm) low damge and high accuracy artillery. But the thing is, it's near impossible to hit anything at 20km, and the damage of AP at that range is pathetic. And since getting spotted at 16Km. Hindenburg always get concentrated fire since it's the easier to bully than BBs. So when ever it's detected and get concentrated fire, it's unlikely to doge all the fire, and 3 citadel from a Yamato, she is dead.

 

My personal view, either buff the chance of fire and HE damage (which will turn it in to a ZAO, i guess WG won't do that) or buff the AP damage (the better idea so far). I have given up using HE since it does no damage at all, worse than myoko's.

 

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WG has buffed the AP already to 5900 dmg, with rof buffed from 5 to 6 and turret rotation is less than 30 sec is more than enough.When the Hindenburg will buffed further WG must strengthen the Des Monies and Zao to.

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[COSTS]
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First of all I think you are nuts to go straight to Tier 10 without grinding this line first, and learning its characteristics. I was fortunate enough to test all these ships on the live server. I will grind to Tier 6 and stop because they are useless after that. As you have discovered the guns are awful and the damage they cause needs a serious buff before I'm going to bother with them. 

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First of all I think you are nuts to go straight to Tier 10 without grinding this line first, and learning its characteristics. I was fortunate enough to test all these ships on the live server. I will grind to Tier 6 and stop because they are useless after that. As you have discovered the guns are awful and the damage they cause needs a serious buff before I'm going to bother with them. 

 

The AP shells on german cruisers got serious damage buff(around 25%) when the tree got released.

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Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
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Now now, not completely useless. When you fight other CA's they are pretty decent. Shame you don't fight other CA's :D

 

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WG has buffed the AP already to 5900 dmg, with rof buffed from 5 to 6 and turret rotation is less than 30 sec is more than enough.When the Hindenburg will buffed further WG must strengthen the Des Monies and Zao to.

compare.png

I know I am only a mediocre player (play for fun), and please look at the damage results compared. 90k vs 60k there is something wrong.

 

And if WG did release Hindenburg with 5 rpm and lower AP damage, that's going to look like a big Tier 8 ship, now it's like a Tier 9.5 something.

compare.png

Edited by poverty_is_crime

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[GAMUS]
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Well, went into public test, bought Hindenburg as first tier X since Beta times, put a scrub skipper with only sixth sense on it, and into battle!.

 

Was a win, my Hindenburg was #1 ship with two Mogamis, one Ibuki, and one Iowa sunk. 108 main battery, and 9 torpedo hits. 180k damage. One Mogami and Iowa were solo-ed. But Iowa needed 9 torpedos to be sunk, using that tactic so dear of Clemson skippers to give both torpedo broadsides.

 

Yes, it's like a Tier X Cleveland, but shooting AP. Nemesis of citadel-prone ships.

 

Pimped it a bit, and AA battery value jumped up to 84. Not shabby.

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I would be wary of thinking that results you get on a test server will be indicative of those on the live server. Very inexperienced players are at T10 on the test server, in addition people don't care about their results or the credit bill at the end of the battle. This can give you a false perspective of your value in a battle.

  • Cool 2

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[GAMUS]
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I would be wary of thinking that results you get on a test server will be indicative of those on the live server. Very inexperienced players are at T10 on the test server, in addition people don't care about their results or the credit bill at the end of the battle. This can give you a false perspective of your value in a battle.

 

Fair points. Even Yorck does not suck too much in the test server.

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Con:

HE damage next to nothing

AP only works at close range (<10km) or against low tier CA  (works at far range but not much damage anyway)

HE fire chance next to zero

Detected at 16km (Beacon of light)

 

 

Im playing with this ship on test server and its doing tons of AP damage at high ranges, even to Battleships, like 4-8k damage per well aimed salvo, even at 16-18km.

8-12k damage salvos arent uncommon either. And as far as I know there was no buff to german ap ammo.

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[SPUDS]
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Im playing with this ship on test server and its doing tons of AP damage at high ranges, even to Battleships, like 4-8k damage per well aimed salvo, even at 16-18km.

8-12k damage salvos arent uncommon either. And as far as I know there was no buff to german ap ammo.

 

The buff came at release. There isn't anything special for the German cruisers on the PT. But since few people have access to the higher tiers yet on the live servers, it is a good place to look/test.

Also while it's numbers look impressive, even DM can dish out big numbers with AP. It is just that HE is more consistent so AP was generally not used as much. And Zao... yeah after seeing it dropping a 15k salvo on a Tirpitz at 16km, I use that as a yardstick in regards to cruiser vs BB. And we know all about Zao's short range citadel capabilities... Haven't seen anyone post up any 8 citadel salvoes against battleships in the Hindenburg yet.

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Well, went into public test, bought Hindenburg as first tier X since Beta times, put a scrub skipper with only sixth sense on it, and into battle!.

 

Was a win, my Hindenburg was #1 ship with two Mogamis, one Ibuki, and one Iowa sunk. 108 main battery, and 9 torpedo hits. 180k damage. One Mogami and Iowa were solo-ed. But Iowa needed 9 torpedos to be sunk, using that tactic so dear of Clemson skippers to give both torpedo broadsides.

 

Yes, it's like a Tier X Cleveland, but shooting AP. Nemesis of citadel-prone ships.

 

Pimped it a bit, and AA battery value jumped up to 84. Not shabby.

 

 

Im playing with this ship on test server and its doing tons of AP damage at high ranges, even to Battleships, like 4-8k damage per well aimed salvo, even at 16-18km.

8-12k damage salvos arent uncommon either. And as far as I know there was no buff to german ap ammo.

 

Well, the thing is, people that plays on live servers are not as inexperienced as on PTR who sails in straight lines and give you full broadside for the taking. Also on PTR, people are having fun/trolling a bit.

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Well, the thing is, people that plays on live servers are not as inexperienced as on PTR who sails in straight lines and give you full broadside for the taking. Also on PTR, people are having fun/trolling a bit.

 

Thats true, but im not talking about ships overal performance, nor I compare it to live server in any way. All im saying is that from what I seen those guns hit like a truck with AP even at higher ranges. As for angling, even Zao wil have problems to do significant damage in such situation. Altho Zao at least can switch to very effective HE.  

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[KLLCV]
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The reason why the KM AP is awesome at long range is because it has a high arc. High arc AP will go threw the deck armour of ships, avoiding the belt armour. U get close in a KM ship, your arc will not help at all, making u unable to penetrate the belt and the deck, as the angles of the shells is too great to do any good in either situation. This is also the reason why i think KM HE is so crap. Imagine a HE shell penetrating the deck of a ship at long ranges, if it happens then a blow up by ammo racks will be a regular occurence. 

 

IJN cruisers tend to have a low arc, which makes them ideal for going threw belt armor. The closer u get to a IJN cruiser, the more chance it can penetrate the belt. The further u go, the worse it gets, thus IJN switching to HE. 

 

USN are right in the middle of these 2 extreme's. Where at extreme ranges everything will bounce with AP, as the angle is too shallow, and too close its the same story, as the angle is too steep. Meaning USN ships should be somewhere in between the distances from the KM and IJN. This is also the reason why a lot of DM players shoot HE either from close or far ranges. People need to find the sweet spot of ranges for the DM as there is a minimum range, and a maximum range. IJN & KM have it easy, as they only need to know 1 range at which to change ammo type. 

 

If u were putting the T10 ships in a line for optimal ranges to shoot from with AP. Then the first ship should be the IJN, after which the USN followed by the KM. This is further reinforced by their armor layout. Where the IJN have strong belt armor and the KM has strong deck Armor, the USN are in the middle of these 2. 

 

 

 

 

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View PostExustio, on 01 November 2015 - 03:48 PM, said:

The reason why the KM AP is awesome at long range is because it has a high arc. High arc AP will go threw the deck armour of ships, avoiding the belt armour. U get close in a KM ship, your arc will not help at all, making u unable to penetrate the belt and the deck, as the angles of the shells is too great to do any good in either situation. This is also the reason why i think KM HE is so crap. Imagine a HE shell penetrating the deck of a ship at long ranges, if it happens then a blow up by ammo racks will be a regular occurence. 

 

IJN cruisers tend to have a low arc, which makes them ideal for going threw belt armor. The closer u get to a IJN cruiser, the more chance it can penetrate the belt. The further u go, the worse it gets, thus IJN switching to HE. 

 

USN are right in the middle of these 2 extreme's. Where at extreme ranges everything will bounce with AP, as the angle is too shallow, and too close its the same story, as the angle is too steep. Meaning USN ships should be somewhere in between the distances from the KM and IJN. This is also the reason why a lot of DM players shoot HE either from close or far ranges. People need to find the sweet spot of ranges for the DM as there is a minimum range, and a maximum range. IJN & KM have it easy, as they only need to know 1 range at which to change ammo type. 

 

If u were putting the T10 ships in a line for optimal ranges to shoot from with AP. Then the first ship should be the IJN, after which the USN followed by the KM. This is further reinforced by their armor layout. Where the IJN have strong belt armor and the KM has strong deck Armor, the USN are in the middle of these 2. 

 

 

 

 

 

well the in reality, when ships are angled in a optimal direction (sailing right into you head straight) HE can cause decent fire damage yet AP does pretty much no damage. Unless BB's AP on CA that's another story. So we could say that HE on the CA is a reliable damage source yet AP is not. So my argument is that since KM's HE fire chance is so abysmal, why not buff the AP damage (not penetration) just to compensate special situations when AP does not have effective use. (Or HE fire chance needs to be buffed, but this would make the CA play-style somewhat alike) 
 

View PostNefczi, on 01 November 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

 

Thats true, but im not talking about ships overal performance, nor I compare it to live server in any way. All im saying is that from what I seen those guns hit like a truck with AP even at higher ranges. As for angling, even Zao wil have problems to do significant damage in such situation. Altho Zao at least can switch to very effective HE.  

 

At long ranges setting fires on BB with HE makes life a lot more harder. Ships like ZAO can do invisible firing at 16>km (with camo and captain skill) and this makes the life of a low speed BB very very hard.
 

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At long ranges setting fires on BB with HE makes life a lot more harder. Ships like ZAO can do invisible firing at 16>km (with camo and captain skill) and this makes the life of a low speed BB very very hard.

 

meanwhile the H-burg gets spotted at 16km WITHOUT firing...go figure.

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