MrConway

German Cruiser Feedback

332 posts in this topic

While I don't agree with your opinion about the Kolberg Dropsiq, I do agree when it comes to the Königsberg. I finished grinding the horrible horrible Karlshure today, Königsberg is a lot of fun (too many engine/rudder derps but meh). Kolberg is just not fun if you have to deal with higher Tier ships, St. Louis has just much more range to deal with that and decent HE damage. But this might boil down to personal preference and experience with that ship, the games I had with it were the worst in a long time, actually driving me mad about how bad this ship is. Just to get the Karlsruhe, which isn't even able to penetrate other cruisers, so you need to stick with these abysmal HE shells fired on a Cleveland-like arc...

 

I usually defend WG these days but I'm not sure what got into them releasing these ships as they are with the feedback they got prior to release...

Konigsberg is as good as Omaha/Murmańsk are - in my opinion at least.

Kolberg is not that good, sure. It has it's issues. I admit, that my evaluation might be a bit off the mark, since my main targets were other german CA's with occassional Aurora/St. Louis/Tenryu flavour. It also might be the fact, that I'm used to the way that Kolbergs shells travel - US CA line prepared me for the coming of germans, so hitting targets didn't pose any problems for me (but the shell travel arc drops down around 8 km and is much more "user friendly"). I agree, Kolberg would use some buffs. Small HE base damage buff, and small shooting range buff. But I just can't agree with such vehement statement's about this vessel. It's just decent. Nothing special. He can do his job fine and I didn't have any problems with it. I even thought people will like it, with this dakka dakka playstyle. But I checked forums later, and I thought I might played different ship! I didn't know it was THAT bad.

 

Dresden is a fine ship, but it's on tier II so I just passed him fast. 3 Battles and it's over. 

 

Karlsruhe is a grind/progress blocker. It's bad/terribad. But it's one really bad ship for 5 tiers. And it's on tier IV. You don't have to grind 50k exp for unlocking a better hull which would make him a little tiny miny bit better. So why all the cries of outrage and betrayal?

 

Konigsberg is in my opinion OP. I presented the twitch movie, I presented my facts, you can check stats of people who play him (usually on par/better then Omaha ones). Overall, I'm pleased how they turned out up to tier V. Today I'll propably stream few more battles ending the grind, and trying out Nurnberg. I also plan to stream english version of comparison between US CA's and German ones up to tier V on weekend.

 

@Raven2k5

You have some points. That's also one of my thoughts. German CA's seem good/OP in hands of people who know how to play CA. They might be less forgiving for new players. But in my opinion - who cares? I think it's even a nice idea to vary level of difficulty between nations.

Karlsruhe is very bad. I did my time in Baltimore, so I feeled justified and free exped it all the way to Konigsberg.

Edited by Dropsiq

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Just one question should it be possible to receive critical engine damage and still haven't lost any HP what so ever??? Tried to take a screen shot but every I take turns out completely black.


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Karlsruhe is a grind/progress blocker. It's bad/terribad. But it's one really bad ship for 5 tiers. And it's on tier IV. You don't have to grind 50k exp for unlocking a better hull which would make him a little tiny miny bit better. So why all the cries of outrage and betrayal?

 

 

 

Well that's yet again bad game design in my opinion, if you want people to use real money for free xp or premium, ok sure. But on such a low tier already? The probability that someone abandons the ship line or even quits the game entirely is relatively high. If you're on tier 9 and get to the Izumo for example, you will most likely continue to play, even if you need a lot of time and patience for it.

 

If only a handful of people play the german cruiser line it's wasted time and money for WG.

 

Anyways back on topic. Im also quite curious how the yorck will work out, with her terrible turret turn time. Looks like you need to play her very defensively, if you can choose the place and time of a battle, you're probably fine. But if you get caught off guard, or get ambushed it's over.

Edited by Raven2k5

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Im also quite curious how the yorck will work out, with her terrible turret turn time. Looks like you need to play her very defensively, if you can choose the place and time of a battle, you're probably fine. But if you get caught off guard, or get ambushed it's over.

 

In this game you need a very good reason to be in a cruiser and not a BB. Apart from ranked there are essentially no tonnage limits in the game. A cruiser which is as maneuverable as a BB, is spotted at the same range and handles sluggishly has no right to exist in the game. You are prey for everyone.

 

My personal feeling is that cruisers in general should be borderline OP compared to BB and CVs, to draw a community and establish them as backbones of the fleet. Substandard cruisers are a waste of a model and will just not be used. Add on top that in tiers 7-9 the most common BB is the Tirpitz, which is designed to kill cruisers, which already are lower on the food chain and thus make me not want to use any T7-9 cruisers in principle, because the meta is loaded against me.

Take away AAA and there is exactly nothing I bring to the table except an easy kill for a BB or even CV player.

Edited by Viktor_Slanski

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Hey, so I thaught id make another Addition to the Feedback seeing ive unlocked the Yorck and been playing with it for the whole day as much as i can.

 

Tier VII - Yorck: Now, it seems a slightly improvment in terms of Armor and dmg, however thier are some fair few issues with the Yorck, for one its abismal Turret Turn rate... its slow i mean realy slow... it should have the same turn rate of other T7 Cruiser main guns roughly, but at present its got even a slower turn rate then most Battleships which leads me to low dmg output and being able to support team properly due to guns not being able to keep up with most fast moving targets.. not without having to turn my ship the whole time to adjust for the turn rate which simply isnt a good idea due to broadside alot which = open invetation to shells more..

 

The Armor seems an improvment, but i cant tell so much atm about it due to the fact I cant angel properly or stay so and move my turrets fast enough to keep up with the target and thierby having to turn alot and be broadside..

Dmg wise, turrets hamper this area too, its hard to tell with doing good dmg due to turrets turning slow, so in all its hard to give a great overall view on its damage potencial.

 

Its manouverabilty seems good to me and its AA, Torps are no real problem either. But Health could be far more on it compared to some other same Tier Cruisers.

 

Experience wise, im having a real hard time geting my guns to work properly on targets due to Turret Turn, and thierfor not allowing me to realy do the dmg i want let alone kill something..

 

I think a good thing for the Dev's is to also watch this Video by AgingJedi, he summes up alot of points that have been stated in this Thread overall and to what alot of players think currently and is good food for thaught

for Balancing the  German Cruisers:

 

 

Edited by Vhadur

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THE RAGE IS REAL!

 

The Karlsruhe is the most ridiculous ship in the game. I had to run from japanese dds with this scrap ship! The Furutake is pure joy against this horror. Slow fire, inaccurate, nearly no damage. :angry:

 

After two games i invested 17000 freexp to get to the Nürnberg. Remove this ship or buff it in every way.


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Like most other people I'm very unhappy with the paper-armor of the german cruisers, so i became curious, because it would be very strange if the KM and nazis really used those weak armors on their ships.

In fact, the armor of the german ships was about the rate you see ingame. But the germans had some very good reasons for it! They supported their armor with smart placing of coal/water storage to support the armor and thus making the armor thicker with something you have on the ship either way, without using additional weight for thicker armor.

German ships were with this method very durable and most of them also used excellent sectioning to avoid flooding damage becoming fatal. Some cases even report about ships who have taken in 2500 tons of water and still made it back to harbour.

A well-known example is the Bismarck, who got ripped to pieces by multiple ships, but they still weren't able to sink it (the crew opened the sea-ventiles to end the massive shooting), because the watertanks were placed behind the armor of critical components, providing additional armor and a primitive anti-fire-system (also damping explosions).

So while the german ships were light armored compared to other nations, the smart set-up of different components made their effective armor more than competitive, but this is not implemented in the game.

 


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Well at first the cruiser line was quite fun. I thought it was ok to have a bit more fragile ships but get long range and respectable fire-power... unless the fire-power isn't that great after all. I only had about a hand full of matches with the trial Königsberg, but it was a nice ship which suited a "German theme" quite well (it feels like a proper machine, as I would imagine it to be developed by a German engineer). The long range dispersion didn't surprise me.

 

But if you think about it, that doesn't suit a German ship IMHO (Jütland, range finder dilemma by the royal navy?!). Another point: German ships had not the best armour but they were still floating very well (Falkland against the royal navy again). Although some of the German ships already looked like Swiss cheese they refused to sink for a long time. Shouldn't this reflect in a quite high health pool in game (and the armour remains unchanged) and some kind of higher flooding immunity.

 

Another thing: I guess German engineers are famous because of their accurate work. I think this should be reflected in game by engines that do not always break even by the slightest HE hit. It should also reflect in how German HE shells work: earlier this evening in my Kohlberg a managed to hit about 50 times with HE only but without a single fire set. The St. Louis on the other side got my stranded two times in a row and therefore a sat there with a dead engine to face my demise. The St. Louis also set my on fire at all three parts of my ships! Not to mention how those two ships compare stat wise in game. This doesn't feels right a bit.

 

Another point: I think the HE damage is pitiful, too. But if I switch to AP, which according to the ships stat sheet, should do almost two times the damage of HE (if they penetrate). But do they penetrate at all?! No chance! The resulting damage even at 2 km distance is a joke! That doesn't feel right either. Weren't those low tier ships tested before making them public?!

 

Edited by Z_OnkelE

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Yorck is a pile of garbage turret traverse slower than a BB Shell arc is higher than the Nurnberg and Konigsberg has wet paper for armour and to top it off you can get 19.8km range on the previous ships with advanced firing training and yet a mere 17.3m with bigger more powerful guns.

The German line is pure RNG with useless HE ammo forcing you to use AP which is completely unreliable and doesn't seem to be gaining citadels like their counterparts.

Konigsberg takes more engine damage than a DD I had my engine knocked out 5 times in one match.

The Karl is utter rubbish slow short range and gets shredded by everything.

And these ships were supposedly tested lmao pretty sure we know what you are up to WG trying to get people converting XP to bypass poor ships with doubloons such a lame scam.

 


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Had a good variety of games to review another without just saying it's terrible or amazing.

 

Nürnberg

 

The Good

Köngisberg ++ Essentially she's a beefed up (read as not papier mâché) Köngisberg so all the pluses apply to her with the addition of a floatplane and AA consumables to sweeten the deal.

 

The Bad

Manoeuvrability - Again still quite sluggish or at least feels that way but seeing as you're no longer as fragile it's less of an issue. I would like to see better default rudder-shift time though

 

The Ugly

German HE damage No-brainer really, German HE is terrible, plain and simple. That said you can do some pretty hefty damage with AP against everything and anything so it's more a play style issue than anything else (9k damage hits against battleships with 155mm guns are not to be sniffed at).

 

 

TLDR

  • Köngisberg++ All the good things about the Köngisberg without the fragility and module damage incurred by it.

  • Poor turning ability, just as her predecessor
  • Overall, a pretty well balanced CL for tier VI, not a Cleveland but certainly a fine ship.

 


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Had a good variety of games to review another without just saying it's terrible or amazing.

 

Nürnberg

 

The Good

Köngisberg ++ Essentially she's a beefed up (read as not papier mâché) Köngisberg so all the pluses apply to her with the addition of a floatplane and AA consumables to sweeten the deal.

 

The Bad

Manoeuvrability - Again still quite sluggish or at least feels that way but seeing as you're no longer as fragile it's less of an issue. I would like to see better default rudder-shift time though

 

The Ugly

German HE damage No-brainer really, German HE is terrible, plain and simple. That said you can do some pretty hefty damage with AP against everything and anything so it's more a play style issue than anything else (9k damage hits against battleships with 155mm guns are not to be sniffed at).

 

TLDR

  • Köngisberg++ All the good things about the Köngisberg without the fragility and module damage incurred by it.
  • Poor turning ability, just as her predecessor
  • Overall, a pretty well balanced CL for tier VI, not a Cleveland but certainly a fine ship.

 

Problem with that is, you can only do damage if you are at an angle which allows you to penetrate and that gets harder and harder the higher up the tiers you get. HE on the other hand is a more or less reliable dmg source for instances where you are not able to find a shot against an opponent, especially while chasing or beeing chased.

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Problem with that is, you can only do damage if you are at an angle which allows you to penetrate and that gets harder and harder the higher up the tiers you get. HE on the other hand is a more or less reliable dmg source for instances where you are not able to find a shot against an opponent, especially while chasing or beeing chased.

 

Exactly the good games where you can actually lay down some damage are few and far between most games you get mediocre damage sod all exp and creds.


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i'd like to adres some things  in the german cruiser line that seem to be a problem with all the ships.

 

as its seems  the most ships share the following things:

low armor, high ROF, low HE dmg (with low fire chance), high Ap dmg, easy destroyable engine/rudder, 6km torps.

 

and so far these things dont  give a good mix.

a ship whose death sentence is a destroyed engine/rudder should have it easily destroyed?

so you have a kite ship that heavily relys on getting the right position  cant reliably do that? => this leads to much frustration and un fun gameplay ships should have weaknesses but also you should be able to exploit its strong sites,  its weakness should not be that you cant exploit its strenghs!?

 

the low HE dmg is a trade of i can live with BUT WG should consider buffing the fire chance a little bit you just cant use AP all day long even if you position yourself right doing no dmg with HE and not causing fires is just too much of a trade off.

 

for the 6km torps on higher tiers it would probably be a good idea to have them go like 7,5km. i think thats not too much to ask combined with the fragile nature of the ship (ofc instead you could buff the armor too but i guess thats not what wg had in mind when they designed the line)

 

 


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I agree, HE is a more consistent way to do damage because the way it's modelled is broken but given the choice between AP and HE right now AP seems (at least from what I've experienced) to yield the best results. IF German HE was given proper damage and fire ratings or at least contemporary to one of the other nations then yes HE would most likely be the money maker but currently it just doesn't seem to want to work that way.


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I have already posted my impression of the Kolberg. Now I got the Karlsruhe.

To put it into simple words: I am shocked how bad it is.

For quite a while I was convinced that the Furutaka was the worst CA in the game. Well, we have a new winner.

 

I would really like to understand how this ship as well as the Kolberg made it through the testing.

The Karlsruhe has toilet paper as armor, weak guns, low range, bad acceleration, low top speed.

 

How is this supposed to be competitive against other tier 4 CAs? There are no pros comparing to other lines.

Why would you introduce HE shells that do next to no damage? Yeah, the AP shells have good damage values...on paper. But you can't pen anything with it. And if you do, you can't pen the citadels.

I can understand that there should be diversification among the lines. I would have thought that the rule would be to make some parts weak but other parts strong. But this is like a bad joke.

 

I have the feelling that WG rushed the german line without proper testing to get it into the game. So far these ships are not competitive and shouldn't be in the game.


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To put it bluntly... the line revolves around a dim-witted role, which not only frustrates the players on the receiving end (same with ru DDs in that regard), it even punishes you aswell for trying to be useful, as going for objectives is highly situational and risky.

In the end it's a very masochistic line for BB players who only wanted to snipe at long distances, I don't know who thought of that being a good idea... time for a new "Bad Advice" series for the devs, german cruisers are worth a whole episode.


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first stats on german cruisers:

 

first-statsuvsjz.jpg

http://warshipstats.com/analytics/

 

 

 

 

...sorted by damage:

 

tier 1

 

Hashidate 15k damage

Erie 12k damage

Hermelin 10k damage

 

 tier 2

Diana 22k damage

Chikuma 17k damage

Dresden 16k damage

Chester 12k damage

 

tier 3

St. Louis 25k damage

Aurora 25k damage

Tenryuo 21k damage

Kolberg 20k damage

 

tier 4

Kuma 28k damage

Phoenix 24k damage

Karlsruhe 17k damage

 

tier 5

Murmansk 40k damage

Königsberg 36k damage

Omaha  34k damage

Furutaka 24k damage

 

tier VI

Cleveland 36k damage

Nürnberg 33k damage

Aoba  33k damage

 

tier VII

Myoko 41k damage

Yorck  31k damage

Pensacola  30k damage

 

tier VIII

Mogami 49k damage

Admiral Hipper 35k damage

New Orleans 34k damage

 

tier IX

Ibuki  46k damage

Roon  39k damage

Baltimore  35k damage

 

tier X

Zao  71k damage

Hindenburg  56k damage

Des Moines  53k damage

 

 

......


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Well, what you would know. They are perfectly fine apart from Karlsruhe up to tier VI (won't say stuff about ships I didn't play). Also, Aurora and Diana are premiums, so I would say they should be out of equation. Even, would dare to say, that they're overperforming taking win rate into consideration. Oh, the irony, it burns.

Edited by Dropsiq

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120 hit on a DD with AP  didtn kill it, next game 68 hit on a DD with HE shells didnt kill it, THIS BOAT IS crap, REMOVE GEMRNA THEY SERVE NO FUKING PURPOSE. do it and recover the memopry you used in you game for this and put something usefull thx.

 

talk abotu wasted time and work if its trully what they coded damn they love to waste time and effort. tier 3 and 4 are a total waste of time and hard drive space.

Edited by Kanjejou

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Tier 1-3 ok spamming shots like mad , but in general everyone playing these first 3 they dont indicate how further up is unless you get into higher tier fights

 

Tier 4 then i lost the will to play german ,  so used free exp to get into tier 5 this karlsruhe is pretty much a ship that should never been in

 

Tier 5 Køningsberg glass cannon , He shots are bit weak but in general once you get used to guns and play bit more careful and as a escort aux ship you will kill alot of DD-Cruisers with citadell hits and due to its high rate of fire it first of the german cruiser i liked , just dont go charging and exposing sides and this ship will reward you

 

Tier 6 Nurnberg same type of ship as kønigsberg higher structure but i play it as i did my tier 5 and it performs good, main targets beeing DD-cruisers ( as it will rip apart most if you are a good aimer)

 

Both tier 5-6 have good rate of fire  making them good to take out fast moving targets-cruisers , good turning speed on turrets  ,kønigsberg prone to alot of rudder-engine fails, both are prone to instant death if you expose your broadside to BB/Fast shooting cruisers

 

Tier 7 Yorck 1 battle and already seeing problems :p turn rate rudder slooow, turn rate turrets = yeah this is horrid  ,equally slow as my battleship :p so this need to be adressed , now 130.000 exp till admiral hipper

 


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I want my credits and any free xp I have used on this waste of space line back had enough. Just had a game in the Yorck I took all of 6 hits and I lost my engine with the first and detonation with the last.

Edited by Eternus_Damnatio

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The Yorck is THE WORST ship in the line. Why? Well, because 17.3km range with [edited]17.7s!!!!! shell flight time. Are the devs from  WG brain dead or did they take multiple heavy blows to the head? How the [edited]am I supposed to hit ships with those ridiculous shell flight times? And the penetration of those "huge" 210mm guns is even worse than the 150mm at T6. I can citadel a New York with my Nürnberg, but with my Yorck I can't even penetrate a Cleveland at a range of 12km.


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well from what I have read it seems I am not the only one. I can not understand that with all this feedback WG haven't taken drastic steps to fix these issues and It worries me that we have not heard from any developers on these issues either.


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Even drastic steps take time to implement, the lack of official response though is understandable. They've cocked up quite superbly - would you want to own up to that? I pity whoever has to trawl through all of these threads for the useful comments though.


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I reached the Karlsruhe. Played it twice and scrapped the entire german line. I will not touch it again until WG fixed it. I have NEVER had such aggravating ships.


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