German Cruiser Feedback

[AchtungQotten]

Played up to the Nurnberg, cant be arsed anymore, its crap, the entire line is crap.

Whats the point of high rof with no armor, you cant sustain that rof and you cant do dmg without sustaining it. If you make one wrong move, your dead, if a waterdrop hits anywhere near you hull you will explode instantly. You cant fire from range (well you can, as you got a very good range) as you will do no dmg, and you will be a great target for the BB's which can actually reach you. Also good luck turning to avoid their shots, even though your very light, you have a turning circle of a BB and a speed of one aswell.

Its the most frustrating and difficult line of ships ive played.

Dont care if its historically correct, the gamemodes are not, you need to balance ships to the game modes, so each ship has some potential to do something.

[Mahakmar]

and people stop discussing off topic stuff please

[Sp4wN_2k7]

OT: Kuma is op. My record on this baby... well see for yourself:

 

145k damage

btw the citadel hits were on the Myogi with HE rounds.

 

BTT: Yorck remains my most hated ship in the game. I mean seriously 17.7s shell flight time for 17.3km with AP, but only 12.4s with HE.....wtf WG? The HE damage on this ship is still lower than on the other cruiser lines, but with such a bad shell velocity on AP shells, it's literally the choice between performing worse(HE) or worst(AP). By the time you reach the distance where AP becomes a "viable" choice, you are almost  already in torp range. Have fun trying to get there without beeing blown to bits.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

 More gibberish and crap that can not be proven. I actually was afk in all of my Kuma games, you know... /facepalm

You don't get a single thing don't you? I had three (3, drei, trzy, III) games in Wyoming. And I free exped it as my friend free exped Myogi - why don't you check my New York, South Carolina, New Mexico or even Colorado stats? They are all god damn sweet, not stellar, but sure above average. 

 Kuma is not OP. The only "proof" you have brought is tales about how long you [edited]is.

Oh man, I didn't even start on this topic. And it's not worth a "tale" it's a freakin saga. And, well, Kuma is op. You're just bad and can't play her well enough. Go back to playing BB's - they are more forgiving and less skill dependent, you will manage! The only thing that makes Kuma somewhat safe from nerfing is the fact that she is a CA, and you actually need some know how from higher tiers to use her to full potential. Guess you don't possess that knowledge. Sadimir. 

 

On topic. I should have Yorck in my harbour this weekend, but I don't look forward to it

 

[kamuka]

why don't you check my subpar NC stats?

 

 

So tell me, mr most awesome player of all times.

 

How often did you die to a Kuma or any other cruiser in your BBs? Let me guess: never.

 

You are just unable to comprehend or articulate an argument.

You doing good in a ship does not make it overpowered.

You -as the most awesome player on gods earth- can hardly outperform me -a trash player of the lowest calibre according to the most awesome player on gods earth- in a Hosho with it.

 

 

And on the Yorck: Didn't you just tell us how you were defending the awesome german cruisers from criticism by scrubs like me? Tell me, oh lord of all things gamey, how is the Yorck competitive with the Myoko again?

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

Well now, you are actually pretty mad That is actually pretty funny! Again you fail to see, my NC stats are from 7 games only And boy o boy, did I ever tel that I'm a good BB player? Still won most of the games in it though. 

 

When I played on tier V there weren't many Kumas around. 

 

And you are aware that I played Kuma right after release, and it was broken then. Now it's even more broken with the influx of new players getting their grips of the game. And you compare Kuma to a CV. Well done mate, well done. It only talks volumes about Kuma, that you weren't able to do more dmg then me in CA. What makes ship overpowered is how easy it is to play good in it. Thats why Kuma is OP. After you get few CA games under your belt, you are unstoppable in Kuma. Mobility, sheer massive DPS, accuracy, fire chance, torps, low silhouette, plane - combination of this elements make an average player in Kuma a very very good one. I actually think about some statpadding with it - all those karlsruhe and Myogis - fun fun fun. 

 

And, yeah, I defended german CA cruisers up to tier VI - because I played them. Didn't play Yorck so how the hell could I make an opinion about it. Rest of the tree? Apart from Karlsruhe = on par with US and IJN counterparts. You made a laughable and hilarious statement about Myogi raping Kuma - for average CA driver it's just plain silly. I think you could actually ram Myogi in Kuma with fair chance of success. And you talk about poor condition of CA on high tiers, but the highest tier you have is tier VII, so how do you know? And CA are kings of the game on tiers up to V, after that they become weaker and weaker as they roles are more or less taken over by DDs or fast BB's. But you only know it from forums, vids whatever. 

 

You entered a discussion between me and havaduck, about CA flavours, IJN, US and GE ones. You made a dumb remark about a single statement I made, and what you expected? A serious answer? Every semi experienced CA driver will tell you Kuma is OP. It's better/on par with Wyoming, and slightly better then Phoenix. 

 

And, your remark about me defending Yorck. For realz bro? I mean, when you write on forum, be sure to at least have some basic reading skills and check what I've written over and over again. 

 

Next time don't lash out in discussion you don't have anything smart to add.

 

Even more, your Kuma has better stats then your Myogi and almost the same as Wyoming. What was your point again? Cause my point is another time spot on - average player doing better on Kuma - OP.

[kamuka]

So the only reason your Kuma stats are better than mine is because you farmed noobs on release, while I took a long break? Sounds like a reasonable explanation.

And if you pull up ships I have 7 games on. Well, so will I.

 

As I said, you're not capable of logical thinking.

 

According to you, me doing worse in a Kuma than in a Wyoming and way worse than in a Hosho is proof of the Kuma being OP.

 

That's so stupid it hurts my brain.

 

As i told mgm. Go play a Myogi (which is at least the second worst BB by tier, if not THE worst) and tell me how often you die to Kumas.

[VonPletz]

wingos80, on 30 October 2015 - 02:38 PM, said:

the karlsruhe tier IV is the literal rock bottom of any ship in wows. terrible range for its tier and just bad guns and speed. needs urgent buff

 

Wait until you get to the Yorck...I think you will revise your post. 

Yorck is far worst than Karlsruhe for the simple fact that you are totally outclassed by your piers (worse than Karlsruhe) and forget facing a tier higher than you...

 

But I would agree that the Karlsruhe is a horrid ship as well.

 

 

kamuka, on 30 October 2015 - 10:48 PM, said:

 

So tell me, mr most awesome player of all times.

 

How often did you die to a Kuma or any other cruiser in your BBs? Let me guess: never.

 

You are just unable to comprehend or articulate an argument.

You doing good in a ship does not make it overpowered.

You -as the most awesome player on gods earth- can hardly outperform me -a trash player of the lowest calibre according to the most awesome player on gods earth- in a Hosho with it.

 

 

And on the Yorck: Didn't you just tell us how you were defending the awesome german cruisers from criticism by scrubs like me? Tell me, oh lord of all things gamey, how is the Yorck competitive with the Myoko again?

 

I agree. His arguments for the German line is pretty weak.  But I think I proved that one earlier in this thread.  The entire German Cruiser line is in sever need of a heavy buffing. 

On a side note...if you look at the entire cruiser line (all countries) the USN and IJN have top ships in each tier.  There is not one tier that the German ships are in the top tier.  I think that says volumes to the games imbalance against the German Cruisers compared to IJN and USN.

 

 

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

 His arguments for the German line is pretty weak

no worries vonPletz, kamuka won't take your place as my #1 personal forum entertainer! Keep up the good work with making me giggle!

 

[JapLance]

Played up to the Nurnberg, cant be arsed anymore, its crap, the entire line is crap.

 

 

 

False. You skipped tiers 1,2 and 3, played one game with tier4, five with tier5, and now, very surprisingly, you probably don't know how to play with the tier6 with a captain with basic skills only.

[mtm78]

 

False. You skipped tiers 1,2 and 3, played one game with tier4, five with tier5, and now, very surprisingly, you probably don't know how to play with the tier6 with a captain with basic skills only.

 

But but but, RU BIAS!!!!!!1111!!!!11

 

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

But but but german superior steel! 

[VonNorwegen]

Another constructive post by Dropsiq.

 

 

Im really struggling to get lots of damage in the Hipper. Because I am forced to play quite defensivly, I find myself late for battles many times. Anyone have a good average dmg. in the Hipper?

[Mahakmar]

Hipper can excell in defensive mindset, try teaming-go with a few ships, stay abit behind as most see german cruiser they will target you due to weakness , they will wreck havoc on cruisers and dd with he shots if you can hit them center-citadell, if all fails just rush them with a slight angle and pray  while shooting with front guns charging them , if you get them turning back and running you done your job and hopefully rest of the team sees the oppurtinity to start firering on the targets running/focusing on you

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

 Another constructive post by Dropsiq.

Why only me? 

 

 But but but, RU BIAS!!!!!!1111!!!!11

This is constructive for you I guess then?

 

Not fair man, not fair.

 

[Gojuadorai]

Another constructive post by Dropsiq.

 

dont feed the troll....

 

@topic it would help if  those ppl who dint realy play the line  would not complain about the ships that are "playable" that discredits the criticism on the "unplayable" ships.

 

as i stated earlier my general view  and the problem all ships shaere is based on an imbalance in tradeoff this should be fixed befor they look at single ships.

ger cruisers are  supposed to be accurate glass cannons  and therefore need a drawback to trade for it.

now to the part where is see the flaw:

the tradeoffs are low armor low hp not great turning radius and hihg chance of rudder/enginge failure

that are drawbacks that  make each other worse (to clarify: low armor/hp arent so bad if you can doge good -> bad steering and failure prohibit that to a large extent)

 

what needs to be balanced better is that good players should be able to exploit the strengths of ships reliably and not have to die to engine failure  because they got hit by a few he shells.

thats my tow cents

 

(before anyone bothers to look at my stats to say i dont know what im talking about cause i suck... yes i suck that doesnt mean my brain doesnt work....)

[mtm78]

My post was not constructive, I apologize. And Dropsiq is correct, I should have been called out on it. 

 

It's just that this thread has so much wherabooing going on, it's hard to post contextually relevant replies. 

 

Some posts are just too ludicrous to reply to with anything but the type of posts me and Dropsiq made. You simply can not make broad general statements like 'the entire line is crap' and leave it like that, and not expect a similar style answer especially when you as Japlance pointed out didn't even play the line enough to have an opinion worth more than a fart in a hurricane. 

 

 

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

You want a constructive post? You don't want to feed the troll? Then start to be objective, start to analyze facts and base your opinions on them.

Tier II SMS Dresden is a very good vessel. Good accuracy, good mobility, decent armour, huge RoF. Flaws - below average HE dmg, not enough AP penetration, low gun range, very high shell trajectory when shooting above 8 km. Overall, very good cruiser, advantages certainly outweight flaws. Only problem might be Diana or certain tier III ships.

Tier III SMS Kohlberg is a good vessel. All advantages from Dresden are present, same with flaws. It's only real threat on tier III is St. Louis. He should come even or even win with any other tier III opponent. On tier IV he will be at big disadvantage since tier IV is cramped with very good vessels. 
Tier IV Karlsruhe is a very bad vessel. Skip it if you can.

Tier V Konigsberg is a very good vessel. Good AP dmg and penetration, good RoF, good range, very good accuracy, good shell travel time and arc, great sonar (5 km!), very good torpedoes, and 6 per side. Flaws - big citadels, low armour, vulnerable modules, mediocre mobility. But overall it's very good, you can fight easily with every cruiser apart from Cleveland. You will struggle against BB's. Best bet is to try to set them on fire, and then switch to AP ammo and target BB's superstructure for 2k - 3k hits. Very dangerous/OP CA when driven by capable skipper.
Tier VI Nurnberg is a good vessel. Has the same pros and cons as Konigsberg. He's biggest flaw is that it is on tier VI, where meta becomes BB heavy, which is a bane of GE CA's. You will be at disadvantage when facing Fuso or New Mexico, but you should be able to win a lot of fights against any other CA up to tier VII. Even Cleveland is a possibility.

GE CA up to tier VI are designed as CA killers. Very good shell travel arc, very good AP ammo with decent/good RoF. Their drawbacks are lowish mobility, rather light armour, vulnerable modules and low HE damage and fire chance. Their advantages are long range with good shell trajectory and speed, very good AP ammo - good penetration and high damage, very low dispersion, good RoF, good angles on their guns, long range sonar, which is very usefull up to tier VII. They are exactly in the middle of the power curve of CA, with IJN being on top, GE as second, but very close to US ones. 

I'm yet to reach Yorck and Hipper. Yorck is pretty shitty, but Hipper is decent from what I heard.

Is that construcive for you? I repeated that opinion over and over again, provided stats, provided vids, provided stats of the players who call GE CA shitty, and actualy do better in them then in theirs Omahas and Furutakas. 

yeah, but don't feed the trolls. Better to post GE CA line is shiet, WG screwed GE CA line YET again, german bias - collect upvotes. Actually try to convince peps the line is mostly fine and easily playable - get downvotes and be called a troll oh, the beauty of forums and wehraboos.
 

what needs to be balanced better is that good players should be able to exploit the strengths of ships reliably and not have to die to engine failure  because they got hit by a few he shells.

thats my tow cents

 well, I'm not the best of all players, but I'm actually pretty decent CA skipper, and I do exactly that - I exploit the strenghts of those CA's and got 51k average dmg and 78% win rate on Konigsberg. Easy peasy. 

 

[Trigger_Happy_Dad]

Kuma with 140mm HE vs  Karlsuhe....and Königsberg ;)

 

 

 

......

[mtm78]

Lol but we already concluded Kuma is OP 

 

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

 Lol but we already concluded Kuma is OP 

LoL we did? I'm still struggling with those Myogis man, soooo OP. I lose to them 10/10 fights

[Trigger_Happy_Dad]

Lol but we already concluded Kuma is OP 

 

 

I could do that with a Phoenix too..... ;)

[Sp4wN_2k7]

I'm at the Admiral Hipper now and I must say god I love this ship. After going through  the Yorck this thing is a real blessing.

 

The problem with the german ships is not really its armor. The armor on the german ships is quite good actually, the problem is the damage mechanics. German ships don't rely on one sheet of armor on the hull of the ship. They use a more complex layered design and a highly segmented ship architecture. They have thinner armor plates on the hull and a "turtle back" armor layout on the inside protecting the citadel. The problem is, that the shells won't overpen as often as on other ships because they need to penetrate more combined armor to do so. The combined thickness on the german ships is actually higher than on other ships, but detonations inside of the ship deal higher damage than overpenetrations, resulting in a ship feeling more fragile than it really is. The german ships where designed to stay in battle longer at the cost of gun cailber. The damage system right now does not reflect the benefits of a more complex armor layout and small armored compartments. Under normal circumstances this layout would result in less damage taken when penetrated, because the explosion would be confined to a relatively small area. This has nothing to to with so called superior ship design or steel, it's just a different design philosophy. This also seems to be the reason why the german ships are slower although they have more engine power e.g. Des Moines(120,000hp) and Hindenburg(155,000hp).

[VonNorwegen]

Hipper can excell in defensive mindset, try teaming-go with a few ships, stay abit behind as most see german cruiser they will target you due to weakness , they will wreck havoc on cruisers and dd with he shots if you can hit them center-citadell, if all fails just rush them with a slight angle and pray  while shooting with front guns charging them , if you get them turning back and running you done your job and hopefully rest of the team sees the oppurtinity to start firering on the targets running/focusing on you

 

I agree it excell in the defensive in a 1 on 1 situation. But once you beaten the opponent and he his fleeing it is hard to follow up with a offense, because of it's low manuvererabilty can more easily make you ram into islands, risk getting torped by DD's, or drawn into BB range. Another problem I see more and more, is that people in general are more reluctant to advance nowadays, with the risk of leaving you exposed. The map Hotspot can often be diffucult if your taskforce is getting wedged by two opposing forces, because you will be one of the first to be targeted and you cannot disengage or engage when you want to so easily.

 

 

 

All in all its a difficult ship to master. And the gap between failure and success is very slim

[kamuka]

LoL we did? I'm still struggling with those Myogis man, soooo OP. I lose to them 10/10 fights

 

You mean you struggle with Kumas while driving a Myogi. 10/10