Situational awareness and captian retraning.

[Feketepeon]

Hi for starters I like to play DD's (the US line I don't realy like the IJPDD's way of play) and I get it the Wargaming nead to force you to choice thet thet "what's more important for you your time or your money" deal and all and they inlcude the option to pay of your capatian retarning completly wiht in realy money but they shoud realy reduce the amount of EXP you nead for genereal retraning.

 

I'm mean I saw a video about the hige tier captian retraning (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rypVfXHFhRQ  <----srsly wtf you grind more EXP at thet lvl to retrain your captian for a new ship then you hade to grind to get there in the first place ,thet's broken) and I whas thinking as a DD players:

 

Soooooo I can choise to play twice as mutch games I did to retrain my lvl 18 captian ( I don't have one yet but points a little lather after rant) after I switched it to my tier 10 US DD and DON'T have situational awarness at all for a long LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time or I can dismiss him get a new captian ho have the situational awarness skill fresh and start grinding for last stand and co.

(the struggel is real)

 

And let's look away from 20 skill point captians even if we look at say 11 skill point captians the amount of EXP you have to put in them to retrain them for the new ships is huge as well even if you half it. By the time you retranied him you already can switch to the next tier by then which is no fun. I get it thet there skills are 50% turned off till retrained but serously why WHY did you make the situational awarness skill completly turned off?!?!? I get it thet wargaming whant to get money out from the player base but in the current form of the captian retraning requirments it's bad as hell.

 

Wargaming realy shoud change the current sistem of captian retraning some way like:

 

-captians have to play a set amount of matches for retraning instead of exp like at skill point 10=20 games  skill point 15=50 games and you coud reduce the amount fo rounds wiht credits by 1-2 rounds on low skill point cap and 5-6 matches on higer skill point captians and ofc leave the option to skipp it completly by paying dublons.

 

-make situational awarness yousable even when captian is retraning somebody can say thet "captian skills aren't neaded they are only pluss stats to your ships" yeeeees.....no have you played tier 6 DD wiht out situational awarness? Let me give you a little spoiler it's not fun and thet's tier 6 I can't even comprehend the horrors thet's waite for me at tie 8-10 wiht battleships thet can one shoot me from the other side of the map becouse I didn't know thet the japan dd whas spoting me for like 10 min's in game becouse my derp captian sudnely forgoted how to youse the spy-glass becouse he entered a nother ship and we all know the 4th dimensional warp mind break effects when we enter in a new ship/car/tank/plane/what ever right? Right.

 

Long story short: Re design the captian retraning sistem in a way thet you don't have to spend HUGE amount of time (and I'm mean HUGE amount of time not huge as managable) but big amount of tim still so players can decide to grind it up or pay it up for you and they don't feel completly FORCED to pay it up becouse the grind it up time is to mutch and it's easyer to create a lvl 1 captian for tier 10 ships then retrain thet lvl 20 captian if you actual grinded yourself there wiht him. Thet OR make situational awarness yousable completly even when retraning serously thet skill isn't a "it's cool to have" it's a must have. OR make it 50% turned off liek every other skill by halfing the range on it NOT completly turning it down. (It woud be nice to know when a IJDD started to spoting me is still betther to have a respond time bigger wiht 3-4 sec then have none at all and sail nose first into a full salvo of HE by 3 cruisers and get detonated to space).

 

Also if you guys have tipps for me how to dodge this nightmare on hige tiers I woud be thank full if you share it wiht me thanks.

 

[SeGram]

...

Also if you guys have tipps for me how to dodge this nightmare on hige tiers I woud be thank full if you share it wiht me thanks.

 

 

want to sail fully functional ship from first battle? BUY gold, simple as that. You are not meant to sail smoothly up to tier 10 without paying for a game.

[WatchdogCZ]

Free 2 Play does not mean players are supposed to play forever without spending any money. Nothing is for free completely, WG are not a charity. The development of the game and the maintenance cost a lot of money. They have to make some or there would be no game. Simple as that.

[Nergy_BB]

The non paying player are supposed to be the playthings for the gamers that are honorable enough to pay for the game.

[T0rad]

they could earn some money via advertisment. i think majority of players would not mind... just my opinion though

[WatchdogCZ]

they could earn some money via advertisment. i think majority of players would not mind... just my opinion though

 

Some or enough?

[mtm78]

I don't want ads in my game, I pay premium so and I and the freeloaders don't have to watch adds. Ow that and the boost to grinding 

 

[mjfred]

The captain retraining is a dd and probably cv(never played them but imagine it is tricky without skills) tax.

Not haveing situational awareness in a dd high tier is almost game breaking.

Wouldn't be as bad if the skills retrained one at a time.

I got round it USN with an Atlanta (which costs ofc), which is bags of fun if you normaly play dds.

[Zogash85]

Retraining a highly skilled captain is 500 dubloons. That's €2.25 (less than that if you buy larger amounts). That's less than two McDonald's cheesburgers in most countries. How much is your time and enjoyment worth to you? Sure, I wouldn't pay as much for retraining low-tier captains that I can retrain in a few games in one of my premiums (Yubari for IJN, Arkansas Beta for USN), but once it's a choice between paying two 'bucks' and spending several hours playing the game with a severe handicap... it's not really a hard choice, is it?

 

Cough up!

[Psusennes]

A well skilled captain is essential. To have to retrain him on every ship, even within the same line and even if the ship has premium status, I think is unfair. I just spent a fortune to get my IJN DD captains to higher tier DD. I tried, before doing this, drive my IJN DD T6 in two battles. Not knowing that I have been discovered has been the killer. I paid the 500 doublons for moving my T1 captain with 10 skill points to T6 and I am alreayd won my first game. The situational awarness did the trick, among other things of course.

 

Cheers

Martin

[rafparis]

it will be the same with the soviet DDs captains, the 4th perk for longer range is essential for their gameplay.

and even having the gremy and the murmansk, it will take a lot of battles to retrain him... Retraining xp should be double on premium ships or something like that.

[TheJezna]

As someone said, when you look at how much the gold is really costing you in real money, it makes very little sense to grind anything. 500 gold for retraining? I make the money to buy that gold in a minute of IRL work. 15 mil creds for a new ship? Well I can grind what, 1.2 mil in an hour in a premium, or I can spend 15 minutes or so extra at work. It's great that there is an option of spending time or money, but money is also time, and usually less.

[Unintentional_submarine]

it will be the same with the soviet DDs captains, the 4th perk for longer range is essential for their gameplay.

 

AFT? Not really the same as it still works at half the effectiveness. It is the 'on/off' skills that matter. Things such as Situation Awareness, Superintendent, Last Stand and Air Superiority, they get turned off during retraining.

[thunder3oo]

Wargaming realy shoud change the current sistem of captian retraning some way like:

 

-captians have to play a set amount of matches for retraning instead of exp like at skill point 10=20 games  skill point 15=50 games and you coud reduce the amount fo rounds wiht credits by 1-2 rounds on low skill point cap and 5-6 matches on higer skill point captians and ofc leave the option to skipp it completly by paying dublons.

 

-make situational awarness yousable even when captian is retraning somebody can say thet "captian skills aren't neaded they are only pluss stats to your ships" yeeeees.....no have you played tier 6 DD wiht out situational awarness? Let me give you a little spoiler it's not fun and thet's tier 6 I can't even comprehend the horrors thet's waite for me at tie 8-10 wiht battleships thet can one shoot me from the other side of the map becouse I didn't know thet the japan dd whas spoting me for like 10 min's in game becouse my derp captian sudnely forgoted how to youse the spy-glass becouse he entered a nother ship and we all know the 4th dimensional warp mind break effects when we enter in a new ship/car/tank/plane/what ever right? Right.

 

Long story short: Re design the captian retraning sistem in a way thet you don't have to spend HUGE amount of time (and I'm mean HUGE amount of time not huge as managable) but big amount of tim still so players can decide to grind it up or pay it up for you and they don't feel completly FORCED to pay it up becouse the grind it up time is to mutch and it's easyer to create a lvl 1 captian for tier 10 ships then retrain thet lvl 20 captian if you actual grinded yourself there wiht him. Thet OR make situational awarness yousable completly even when retraning serously thet skill isn't a "it's cool to have" it's a must have. OR make it 50% turned off liek every other skill by halfing the range on it NOT completly turning it down. (It woud be nice to know when a IJDD started to spoting me is still betther to have a respond time bigger wiht 3-4 sec then have none at all and sail nose first into a full salvo of HE by 3 cruisers and get detonated to space).

 

Also if you guys have tipps for me how to dodge this nightmare on hige tiers I woud be thank full if you share it wiht me thanks.

 

 

Good point, man. Full retraining is a damn waste of time, beside the nerves...

[Deckeru_Maiku]

Right now the only thing I'm spending Dubloons on is retraining DD captains from a certain level up. Oh, and converting some free Exp from time to time.

 

The cigarettes I smoke while playing WoWS to retrain a DD captain would cost me more than the 500 Dubloons

[rafparis]

what would be nice also, is the % for retraining for silver be changed from 50% to 75%, like in WOT.

[mtm78]

Right now the only thing I'm spending Dubloons on is retraining DD captains from a certain level up. Oh, and converting some free Exp from time to time.

 

The cigarettes I smoke while playing WoWS to retrain a DD captain would cost me more than the 500 Dubloons

 

Best post on the subject, should be stickied 

[chippy_lw]

 

want to sail fully functional ship from first battle? BUY gold, simple as that. You are not meant to sail smoothly up to tier 10 without paying for a game.

 

I'll second that. I'm no fan of parting with money, but I see nothing wrong with the retraining system.

[viceadmiral123]

Playing without Situational Awareness on a DD is not instant death, in fact it's rather fun to try and keep an eye on enemy DD position and guess when the cruisers will fire at you. Eventually you may get good at it and not even need it. The only time I find it invaluable is when I am not sure if I'm in smoke or not.

[Blixies]

The non paying player are supposed to be the playthings for the gamers that are honorable enough to pay for the game.

Really? That is pay to win. Which WoWS is totally not.

[Figment]

The non paying player are supposed to be the playthings for the gamers that are honorable enough to pay for the game.

 

At 500 gold per captain retraining who after switching to the next ship forgets the ships he's been trained for? Even if you paid a couple euro's per retraining for it? Look, this game is not worth THAT much money. In the past, games have always sold at E.50,- for the first year, by then a profit is made. Later, they go in the sales bin at E.5,-. WoWS, WoT, WoP, WT, all those games make ludicrous amounts of money for selling individual ships to players at prices that are staggeringly high. Selling tanks or ships at E.40,-? A single unit, for E.40,-? The price for which you could buy several games?

 

 

I don't call that honorable selling. I call that ripping players off.

 

 

There's a line where pay to play becomes pay to win. When you have one side that has all kinds of equipment and awareness advantages and the other is denied this because they're playing for free for ages, you're basically forcing players to pay up, or always fight at a huge disadvantage.

[mtm78]

There's a line where pay to play becomes pay to win. When you have one side that has all kinds of equipment and awareness advantages and the other is denied this because they're playing for free for ages, you're basically forcing players to pay up, or always fight at a huge disadvantage.

 

Since WG has always been very adamant against having that stigma on their games, I fully expect an option to retrain faster for silver. Otherwise, high tier progression with proper captains is indeed pay2win currently imo. Btw this only applies to the awareness advantage you mention ( as part of all the other captain skills I am talking about ), as equipment can be sold for half price and bought on a new ship without gold. The amount of retraining needed for a high tier ( from 7 or 8 upwards, or take my current SN captain who had been training on my Murmansk and Gremmy and is at level 12 when I'm only at tier 4 in the SN DD line ) captain, or better said a high level captain even with paying for 50% off is just to steep to call it otherwise. And that is only taking into account I got two premiums which I can use the captain in while retraining and retaining all skills while doing so. Without those ships, I would be better off for sure using new captains on all my ships up to the very end. And even that forces me to play Murmansk and Greg a LOT ( not that it's a pain to play those, at all ), but forcing this is not the best way to keep players happy. 

 

An option to drop captain skills points and retraining for different vessels would be ideal if following wot's example, you can drop skill points to hasten retraining and you can do that for silver not just gold. 

 

Doing that would remove the pay to win stigma and allow a more normal tier progression.

[Tubit101]

When there's no realistic "free" alternative to improvements that can be bought with real money, the F2P model is broken. It's that simple. This principle has already been used in court several times to force F2P games to remove their claim of being free to play, because the free alternatives would cost insane amounts of time.

 

Until there's a viable alternative to pay for captain retraining with "silver" or "credits" or whatever you want to call it, this part of the game should be considered broken. Probably intentionally, I might add, because captains represent the biggest investment of time in this game. The less honorable tactic of microtransactions is to get the player invested (make them put in the hours) and then face them with a paywall. This is probably why captain retraining at this moment essentially equals pay to win (or pay to get a huge advantage, for those of you who insist on taking things very literally).

[Figment]

Btw this only applies to the awareness advantage you mention ( as part of all the other captain skills I am talking about ), as equipment can be sold for half price and bought on a new ship without gold.

 

It also applies to range benefits and precision if their effects are halfed compared to others, or disabled when they're not a percentage effect. For instance, last stand skill or AA range benefit and range of small caliber guns, speed of turning turrets actively change the statistics of the equipment and thereby the chances of using the equipment to its optimal effect.

[mtm78]

But doesn't that all fall under captain related things and not independent equipment related things, there is a clear distinction. I said 'as part of all the other captain skills' because I off course also entails AAA boosts because of captain skills. Just not equipment boost on its own as moving equipment is already possible without gold ( even if it's hidden because it costs you 50% of the silver by selling the old equipment ).