0.5.1 IJN CV "fix"

[Vulgarny]

 

 

 

Tier modifier to control leveling and to try and maintain the curve WG want.   Things also cost more in xp to unlock so its all just relative.

 

What? Im talking about Ryujo vs Independence.

[Skalski]

My main beef with Japanese strike capabilities is the torpedo spread. People often see a squadron coming and start running in circles immediately. Even against an oblivious target however - Japanese TBs will never land more than 2 hits, unless the enemy deliberately walks into into a third. No ship in the game is long enough to take all four. With two squadrons or in conjunction with divebombers, you can play for flooding/fires, but in a situation where you're expecting one or two torpedos to hit - the probability of causing flooding is far more in the US favor. With the US - a tightly packed drop of 6 is is impossible to avoid. 

 

 

[Mangrey]

I think there is more things needed to balance the two CVs types, damage and win rate aint enugh. How about plane loss and planes killed......

Back to the Hosho nerf ..... the hit chance of the hosho is lower then the , langley, whyno up the damage on the torps, rather then lower the Hoshos

 

Mangrey 

[Exocet6951]

My main beef with Japanese strike capabilities is the torpedo spread. People often see a squadron coming and start running in circles immediately. Even against an oblivious target however - Japanese TBs will never land more than 2 hits, unless the enemy deliberately walks into into a third. No ship in the game is long enough to take all four. With two squadrons or in conjunction with divebombers, you can play for flooding/fires, but in a situation where you're expecting one or two torpedos to hit - the probability of causing flooding is far more in the US favor. With the US - a tightly packed drop of 6 is is impossible to avoid. 

 

 

 

And that's also complemented by an array of potentially very powerful divebombers that do more than slightly upset your crew while starting a small trashcan fire on the deck, like IJN bombs.

 

 

[DJ_Die]

I think there is more things needed to balance the two CVs types, damage and win rate aint enugh. How about plane loss and planes killed......

Back to the Hosho nerf ..... the hit chance of the hosho is lower then the , langley, whyno up the damage on the torps, rather then lower the Hoshos

 

Mangrey 

None of that really matters because only damage and spotting really win games... Even if you murder Zuiho's whole complement what does it matter if he's managed to sink 3-4 ships in the meanwhile?

[FloRead]

I think there is more things needed to balance the two CVs types, damage and win rate aint enugh. How about plane loss and planes killed......

Back to the Hosho nerf ..... the hit chance of the hosho is lower then the , langley, whyno up the damage on the torps, rather then lower the Hoshos

 

Mangrey 

That depends on whether the Devs feel that the current Hosho performance or Langley performance should be baseline. Langley has been very much the same since launch while Hosho was pummeled with a massive nerf once already. 

[Hauptbahnhof]

2. US torpedo bomber drop is OP. Well if that's so, why can't the Langley outdamage the Hosho? The OP US torpedo manual drop vs the useless Japanese torpedo drop. What happens? Hosho's 37264 average damage vs Langley's 23995. And there are no divebombers to skew these numbers in any way.

 

Actually the US torpedo bomber drop is still pretty OP, if you know how to use it.

 

At tier 4 when your starting to learn to play a CV that isn't the case, and many US tight drops are too tight and will miss a target that was turning or changing speed. The Japanese wide drops are much more noob friendly, and there is a big chance you'll hit something with one of the torps at least.

 

If you look at the top tier where people know how to use it, it's the other way around. Midway and Essex is dominating damage done.

[FloRead]

 

Actually the US torpedo bomber drop is still pretty OP, if you know how to use it.

 

At tier 4 when your starting to learn to play a CV that isn't the case, and many US tight drops are too tight and will miss a target that was turning or changing speed. The Japanese wide drops are much more noob friendly, and there is a big chance you'll hit something with one of the torps at least.

 

If you look at the top tier where people know how to use it, it's the other way around. Midway and Essex is dominating damage done.

 

No, I disagree again. 

 

Hosho's damage is higher despite the fact that everyone says IJN torpedo drops are crap. And we are talking about average statistics here. You cannot assume all Langley players are drooling morons and all Hosho players are smart geniuses. 

 

Any accusation that the Langley fares worse because players don't know how to use it, will equally apply to Hosho. And if the IJN torpedo drop is so much worse than USN's, explain the disparity in damage.

 

Everyone just dodges the real answer. Essex and Midway is dominating damage because it has 2 torpedo bomber squadrons. You cannot guarantee a full hit with a smart player actively dodging your 1 torpedo squadron, but you can guarantee a grand slam when you force a good player to commit her dodge and then hit her with the full 2nd torpedo salvo because she has commited to the move and cannot dodge the 2nd. This is where your guaranteed 6 hits comes from. Of course, this doesn't count for the targets who love sailing straight, in which case a full deserved 12 torpedoes up her side is her reward.

 

Guess who else has 2 torpedo bomber squadrons? Hosho.

[Hauptbahnhof]

 

Hosho's damage is higher despite the fact that everyone says IJN torpedo drops are crap. And we are talking about average statistics here. You cannot assume all Langley players are drooling morons and all Hosho players are smart geniuses. 

 

I am not "assuming all Langley players are drooling morons and all Hosho players are smart". Try reading what I wrote again again.

 

What I wrote was that the IJN drop is easier to use for drooling morons ( aka noobs at tier 4 ), but the Langley drop is more powerful once you mastered Carriers ( aka 300+ games in CVs and skilled players at tier 10 ).

 

This is because the IJN drop is twice as wide and a bit faster, so you need less aiming and prediction, and are bound to hit something anyways. While the US drop is pretty tight, hard hitting and slower, so if you can't judge and time correctly 100% of the torps will miss. For a noob this happens frustratingly often.

 

 

 

 

Any accusation that the Langley fares worse because players don't know how to use it, will equally apply to Hosho. And if the IJN torpedo drop is so much worse than USN's, explain the disparity in damage.

 

The IJN drop is not much worse then the USN, never said that. It's actually much better if you don't know how to aim ( see above ). It is however worse if you do know how to aim, because it's so wide half the torpedoes will miss even a perfect perpendicular setup against a frekkin stationary target.

[Leonadios]

 

I am not "assuming all Langley players are drooling morons and all Hosho players are smart". Try reading what I wrote again again.

 

What I wrote was that the IJN drop is easier to use for drooling morons ( aka noobs at tier 4 ), but the Langley drop is more powerful once you mastered Carriers ( aka 300+ games in CVs and skilled players at tier 10 ).

 

This is because the IJN drop is twice as wide and a bit faster, so you need less aiming and prediction, and are bound to hit something anyways. While the US drop is pretty tight, hard hitting and slower, so if you can't judge and time correctly 100% of the torps will miss. For a noob this happens frustratingly often.

 

 

 

 

The IJN drop is not much worse then the USN, never said that. It's actually much better if you don't know how to aim ( see above ). It is however worse if you do know how to aim, because it's so wide half the torpedoes will miss even a perfect perpendicular setup against a frekkin stationary target.

 

This. US drops reward players who aim well, with IJN a crap drop will yield the same results as a well aimed one.

[FloRead]

By T8, shouldn't the players have learnt how to drop properly?

 

nation	class	tier	name	players	total battles	average of rates
						battles	win	draw	lose	exp	damage caused	warship destroyed	aircraft destoryed	base capture	base defense	survived	kill / death	point
JP	CV	8	Shokaku	531	4657	8.77	51.36	0.11	48.54	-6103	51805	0.76	15.64	0.00	0.00	72.23	2.57	24489
US	CV	8	Lexington	692	6184	8.94	48.86	0.23	50.91	-4179	44255	0.68	24.67	0.00	0.00	67.97	1.97	23689

 

Lexington is most commonly 2/1/1 or 0/1/3. Nobody in their sane mind will play a Lexington in 2/0/2. Shokaku is usually in 2/2/2. Still 2 torpedo bombers. 

And yet, crap IJN drops on Shokaku still outdamage Lexington.

 

As I repeatedly say, Midway and Essex needs nerfing, but the same IJN CV players continually ask for all kinds of buffs to IJN CVs which the stats don't support. I hope you get the buffs you want, because you know what will come again, the nerf hammer.

 

Edit: stat source: http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20151024et/average_ship.html

[Vulgarny]

Dude its not that shokaku got 2 TB but faster rearm speed for planes and faster TB are making that dmg difference

[FloRead]

Dude its not that shokaku got 2 TB but faster rearm speed for planes and faster TB are making that dmg difference

And IJN CVs still needs more buffs to increase the difference in damage?

[Vulgarny]

They are making good change. High tier IJN CV got too bad TB dmg potential so they buffing torpedo spread for IJN, at same time they are nerfing low tier torpedo dmg.