WG has been listening to who?

[MS_Surface]

Well certainly this new update is nice and i thank WG for most changes and additions. I did like to read that and i think it's going to really improve gameplay.

Now, there are some things i can't understand:

 

1 - Atago was always a better ship than Mogami. We have no doubts here i hope. WG nerfed Mogami because it was OP (as WG said)

Now WG buff Atago because it's too weak? Can you please explain the logic behind these two changes?

Edit: I certainly got a lot of explanations about point 1 and overall Mogami looks like it's better than Atago. I just don't agree with 155mm being better than 203mm, despite the fact that captain skills give a big advantage to 155mm guns.

2 -  A lot of YouTubers saying Des Moines is OP, i see players all the time in battles saying they love Des Moines because is so OP. So WG buff Des Moines. Again, who have WG been listening to?

Edit: forget about point 2, Zao is actually better and this is bringing to much noise to what i think is really important.

 

3 - The changes in USN DDs are good, there's more chances for USN DD Captains but...

What about IJN high tier DDs?? They already have weaker artillery than USN ones. IJN had the advantage of range (not anymore it looks) but anything more than 10km range is just wasting torpedos, that is more than proved. Even at 10km you only hit the noobs and WG knows that..

Most complains i see are about how broken gameplay is for high tier IJN DDs! Did WG skip that reading?

So what does WG do? Buff Cruisers (the most likely to kill DDs) and buff Bombers (they also like DDs)

 

As for IJN high tier DD it goes like this:

"hey DD go spot ships"

"hey DD go cap"

most BBs and CA captains don't even know that the biggest help IJN DDs are giving is area denial, suppressing, making enemy ships turn to dodge torps making their main guns out of aim and sparing the team of hundreds of shells. It's easier to fire at ships that are not aiming at you.

Most of the times, DD captains will try to do all of this and maybe, just maybe, if there's a few noobs in the enemy team, hit 1 or 2 torps before sinking, and that's it! You did a lot, you helped a lot and you can see the results of your actions in the end result screen with everybody earning a lot more than you.

These same BB captains that ask for your help, in the next game they will  be playing against you and calling you a bug because thats the role of high tier IJN DDs: bugging ships.

If someone is going to say "hey dude play another class then" please get lost. I want to play IJN DDs. I just want the same chances as other classes.

 

So my answers from now untill WG fixes high tier DD gameplay will be:

"hey DD go spot ships" -

- why don't YOU do the spotting? Spotting doesn't give me XP or Credits.

"hey DD go cap"

- "why don't YOU go cap? Cap is worthless for XP and Credits"

 

Teamplay? Honour? that won't do much for me but it will always make others earn more XP and Credits.

 

I really hope that someone involved in the game replies to me and says something like: "We didn't forget about high tier IJN DDs, we are going to do this and that...." you know what i mean?

 

You must take into account that i only complain this much because i really like the game. When i don't like a game i don't go over the trouble of even posting. In fact, this is about the only game i actually (sometimes) put money on to have Premium. It's not only Atagos that give WG money you see?

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

[StuntMan0369]

Whilst I agree on some of your points, I think it would be best to wait for the full patch notes, just to see the extent of the buffs and nerfs. Minekaze was 'nerfed' recently, yet I find it just as good to play and just as dangerous to go up against.

[ilhilh]

1 - Atago was always a better ship than Mogami. We have no doubts here i hope. WG nerfed Mogami because it was OP (as WG said)

Now WG buff Atago because it's too weak? Can you please explain the logic behind these two changes?

2 -  A lot of YouTubers saying Des Moines is OP, i see players all the time in battles saying they love Des Moines because is so OP. So WG buff Des Moines. Again, who have WG been listening to?

 

 

The stats say otherwise.  The Atago, even in the most capable hands is not doing as well as the Mogami which is the best tier 8 cruiser - see here: http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/33784-statistics-galore-state-of-wows-update-3-premium-ships/

 

The Des Moines was OP - back in CBT days.  It got hit by the nerf bat a little too hard and now they are trying to redress it.

[SailingDutchy]

Whilst I agree on some of your points, I think it would be best to wait for the full patch notes, just to see the extent of the buffs and nerfs. Minekaze was 'nerfed' recently, yet I find it just as good to play and just as dangerous to go up against.

 

yup she is still nice and ninja to play

 

[Kranodor]

Well certainly this new update is nice and i thank WG for most changes and additions. I did like to read that and i think it's going to really improve gameplay.

most BBs and CA captains don't even know that the biggest help IJN DDs are giving is area denial, suppressing, making enemy ships turn to dodge torps making their main guns out of aim and sparing the team of hundreds of shells. It's easier to fire at ships that are not aiming at you.

Most of the times, DD captains will try to do all of this and maybe, just maybe, if there's a few noobs in the enemy team, hit 1 or 2 torps before sinking, and that's it! You did a lot, you helped a lot and you can see the results of your actions in the end result screen with everybody earning a lot more than you.

These same BB captains that ask for your help, in the next game they will  be playing against you and calling you a bug because thats the role of high tier IJN DDs: bugging ships.

 

Teamplay? Honour? that won't do much for me but it will always make others earn more XP and Credits.

 

This is one of the core problems I see so far (for US DD as well, and more in general, for tactical team play beyond "form blob" / follow or suicide) - not enough rewards for "support", be it spotting, assists or - although that is really hard to do systematically, which is why most games reward only quantifiable damage/kill-related numbers - tactical movement (including area denial by torps for DDs, as well as any kind of slowing down enemy progress by threat / presence).

[Doolio]

I will get chairs and rotten fruit thrown at me, but I really like this announcement - in the sense that I expected a MUCH MUCH LESS of stuff in the next "big patch". And, I would say that the changes/additions that steer the game in good directions are greater in number than bad ones or potentially bad ones.

 

Which for me, is something I would bet my house it could never happen this early. Good thing I didn't do that and I still have where to live, I guess

 

That said, all this got me very confused and now I am in a "sitting and watching" state, and anything that even resembles a pitchfork is light years away from me.

 

 

I am not talking that the patch is major in some general aspect, I am talking that I personally didn't assume in my wildest dreams that it would be this major in its general notion, in the fact that it's for WoWs and that actually has some very good points to it. I didn't expect that out of the blue.

Therefore, I am willing to sit and see what will unfold in years to come and I am actually quite open to the idea of wg having long term plans for this game (which I would bet my house against, too), such as non-direct contribution rewards, content revisions etc.

 

As a realist and a pretty empirical-based person, I am, like, amazed with this patch. No, really, I am not "pleased", I literally read it three times to make sure they aren't talking about some vague ideas planned for 2017.

OF COURSE the patch wouldn't solve some major glaring issues. But the thing is, I would never ever EVER expect them to actually put some undeniably "meaty" things and actual stuff this early and in the same patch. Not because I think it's too much objectively speaking, but having experiences with WG in the first place and other big companies in general (blizzard, for instance). From that aspect, I am genuinely surprised at the news post I've read.

 

 

/hides under desk

[Takeda92]

Go ask on RU forum.. maybe people there asked for these things.. since WG only listen to their feedback.

[MS_Surface]

 

The stats say otherwise.  The Atago, even in the most capable hands is not doing as well as the Mogami which is the best tier 8 cruiser - see here: http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/33784-statistics-galore-state-of-wows-update-3-premium-ships/

 

The Des Moines was OP - back in CBT days.  It got hit by the nerf bat a little too hard and now they are trying to redress it.

 

Sorry but you are completely wrong. The stats you are talking about are 7 monthes old... 

I got this wrong sorry

 

According to current stats, Des Moines is the best Cruiser of the game in it's Tier by far.

Atago is similar or better than Mogami in all aspects but the probability of burning. I do understand the repair kit. But the reason the Mogami is ahead in the stats is because Mogami Captains had to go through all cruisers before having the chance to use it. A lot (not all) of Atago captains download the game, buy Atago and go to tier VIII battles without a clue of what they are doing, and that is why Mogami is ahead on stats.

 

Even in April this was written in the same stats link you posted about the Atago:

"The Atago herd - beloved pinatas when I had to grind the Montana, famous for derping friendly ships with torps before the battle even started. But what is capable of? Average players seem to struggle with the power they have to handle, leading to inferior damage compared to the Mogami and even the New Orleans. The top 10% players are able to close in on the New Orleans damage-wise and the top 10 players are actually able to beat them - but the Mogami is still outperforming the Atago. conclusion: The Atago's power clearly scales with skill - the average player has his problems, but the better players are able to get decent results. If you know your cruiser gameplay this might be a nice buy and cashcow."

 

I'm waiting to see but i was hoping to get some answer on what will WG do about "broken" gameplay in high tiers IJN DDs??

[MS_Surface]

Whilst I agree on some of your points, I think it would be best to wait for the full patch notes, just to see the extent of the buffs and nerfs. Minekaze was 'nerfed' recently, yet I find it just as good to play and just as dangerous to go up against.

 

Never understood very well that nerf. I never used 10km torps on Minekaze. Why would i launch 57knots torps, hoping to get lucky if i had 68knot/7km torps that did a much better job?

When i'm not Premium i play a lot with Isokaze to earn credits and let me tell you. 3x2 torps with 8km - 68knots and amazing reload time at Tier IV is as OP as it gets.

I bought that ship to compensate the fact that i couldn't earn credits in a Fubuki without Premium. So 2nd battle i played with Isokaze i got 5 ships. 2 days ago i sunk 8 ships (!?) in a random battle... think the Minekaze is OP? Think again eheh.

 

But as i said, i'm waiting. The patch isn't out yet and i have some hope that they make my Fubuki enjoyable to play. I don't need it to be OP. Just not as frustrating as it is now.

[Sharana]

According to current stats, Des Moines is the best Cruiser of the game in it's Tier by far.

Atago is similar or better than Mogami in all aspects but the probability of burning. I do understand the repair kit. But the reason the Mogami is ahead in the stats is because Mogami Captains had to go through all cruisers before having the chance to use it. A lot (not all) of Atago captains download the game, buy Atago and go to tier VIII battles without a clue of what they are doing, and that is why Mogami is ahead on stats.

Which stats, made by you? Because the real ones show Des Moines is the 2nd worst tier X after Gearing and any kind of buff is needed.

IJN DDs are not doing bad on high tiers, much better then the USN ones at least.

[MS_Surface]

Which stats, made by you? Because the real ones show Des Moines is the 2nd worst tier X after Gearing and any kind of buff is needed.

IJN DDs are not doing bad on high tiers, much better then the USN ones at least.

 

Sorry i meant to say Class not Tier (i guess u didn't understand when i said cruiser). Where are the Des Moines Capt. complaints? Every time a speak with a Des Moines Captain they are always happy with it, maybe i'm talking to the wrong Captains. Do you think Zao is better?? That's not what i ear, sorry. (Edit: i admit it is)

Anyway i do feel a bit disappointed with you as what you have to say on my post. Is that all you have to say? 

 

ah and where are those stats where High Tier IJN DDs are doing well??

[Kartoffelmos]

As long as no nerfs are planned for Zao, I'll be happy. Regarding the Des Moines, I would rather that it kept its armour scheme to differentiate it from Zao while adjusting the shell travel time to an acceptable level in stead. Any reason why the devs decided that the armour should be buffed in stead of partly reversing the shell nerf(s)? Or was the shell travel time unhistorical to begin with and adjusted at a later stage?

 

Sorry i meant to say Class not Tier (i guess u didn't understand when i said cruiser). Where are the Des Moines Capt. complaints? Every time a speak with a Des Moines Captain they are always happy with it, maybe i'm talking to the wrong Captains. Do you think Zao is better?? That's not what i ear, sorry.

Anyway i do feel a bit disappointed with you as what you have to say on my post. Is that all you have to say? 

 

ah and where are those stats where High Tier IJN DDs are doing well??

 

You can find quite detailed statistics in this thread, where it is shown that Zao is the better ship. On the other hand, both battleship and carriers performs better, but that is working as intended (though, I would rather that it was like in WoT, where the different classes at tier 10 generally can beat each other by playing to their strengths, given equal skill level and excluding artillery).

[MS_Surface]

As long as no nerfs are planned for Zao, I'll be happy. Regarding the Des Moines, I would rather that it kept its armour scheme to differentiate it from Zao while adjusting the shell travel time to an acceptable level in stead. Any reason why the devs decided that the armour should be buffed in stead of partly reversing the shell nerf(s)? Or was the shell travel time unhistorical to begin with and adjusted at a later stage?

 

 

You can find quite detailed statistics in this thread, where it is shown that Zao is the better ship. On the other hand, both battleship and carriers performs better, but that is working as intended (though, I would rather that it was like in WoT, where the different classes at tier 10 generally can beat each other by playing to their strengths, given equal skill level and excluding artillery).

 

Well i searched a bit and looks like everyone has a different source for stats. Does Crysantos work for WG? I couldn't find anything that could connect him to WG nor anything saying they are official stats or that they are more accurate than others... Where are the sources for these stats? 

You can say what you want, but if you read my posts you will find that i agree that ship classes don't need to do the same damage. I understand why a CV would do more damage than a DD. What i think is that each class should receive compensation based on it's role. Bash me if you want but that makes sense to me.

Captains like Sharana, that only play Premium and CVs are always happy with the system. That's why they don't want it changed. If DD players get rewarded for capping and spotting you will see him here crying like a baby.

[goodman528]

Atago better than Mogami? Des Moines better than Zao? IJN DD weaker than USN? Have we really been playing the same game?!

[MS_Surface]

Atago better than Mogami? Des Moines better than Zao? IJN DD weaker than USN? Have we really been playing the same game?!

 

Atago is and always was better than Mogami.

Des Moines vs Zao: I already said i got it wrong and stated that on my post.

I never said IJN DDs were weaker than USN. I said the buff in USN DDs gives them more chances!

[nake53]

 

Atago is and always was better than Mogami.

Des Moines vs Zao: I already said i got it wrong and stated that on my post.

I never said IJN DDs were weaker than USN. I said the buff in USN DDs gives them more chances!

 

Atago was never better than Mogami with its 19(was it?) km range rain of fire that burns anything down.And you don't even own either, how can you judge.

While I agree that most things that benefit team aren't rewarded, which is a bad thing.In general you have pretty biased subjective opinion that is not even based on personal experience, as you've only reached t8 as dds, and t7 as ca/cl while not exactly having outstanding stats. First of all you should improve your own skills, then with your new, enlightened, view judge wargaming's balance decisions.

[MS_Surface]

Atago was never better than Mogami with its 19(was it?) km range rain of fire that burns anything down.And you don't even own either, how can you judge.

While I agree that most things that benefit team aren't rewarded, which is a bad thing.In general you have pretty biased subjective opinion that is not even based on personal experience, as you've only reached t8 as dds, and t7 as ca/cl while not exactly having outstanding stats. First of all you should improve your own skills, then with your new, enlightened, view judge wargaming's balance decisions.

 

1 - Well you aren't really smart if you think i need to be Tier X and have all ships to post my opinion. You see, i may not have all the ships but i tried all classes up to a certain point. Then i went with CAs and DDs. I did that because i rarely play Premium.

2 - You were very fast looking at my stats but you should know that i have way more experience in this game than you do, i just don't spend as much money as you do. Please check number of battles.

3 - I might not be the best player but you only have those stats because you play a lot of CV while my stats come mainly from DDs and i do have reasonable stats with those.

4 - If you see the characteristics of both ships, you will be amazed to know that Atago was and still is a better ship than Mogami.

5 - You are really ignorant because if you check your own stats, you're doing WAY BETTER with the Atago than with the Mogami, how can you consider the Mogami better?

6 - Tier VIII DD is high tier. That is the main focus of my post.

 

So please go try to flame elsewhere

[MarcusFuriusCamillus]

 

Atago is and always was better than Mogami.

Des Moines vs Zao: I already said i got it wrong and stated that on my post.

I never said IJN DDs were weaker than USN. I said the buff in USN DDs gives them more chances!

 

Have you been smoking?

Atago is the only premium I wish I hadn't bought, It's objectively terrible, Also had Mogami - Mogamis better with 155's or 203's by a huge margin, Atago has atrocious firing rate.

IJN DD's(Shima especially) are very very viable at high tier because they poop a gigantic amount of torpedoes, If the person driiving them is atleast semi-competent they'll get a shitload of hits and deny huge areas with their spreads.

[Aldramelech]

Atago is better then Mogami? What planet does the OP live on and what game is he playing? Not the same one I'm playing apparently..................................

[MS_Surface]

Atago is better then Mogami? What planet does the OP live on and what game is he playing? Not the same one I'm playing apparently..................................

 

 

Have you been smoking?

Atago is the only premium I wish I hadn't bought, It's objectively terrible, Also had Mogami - Mogamis better with 155's or 203's by a huge margin, Atago has atrocious firing rate.

IJN DD's(Shima especially) are very very viable at high tier because they poop a gigantic amount of torpedoes, If the person driiving them is atleast semi-competent they'll get a shitload of hits and deny huge areas with their spreads.

 

Two morons (sorry i take that back it was impulsive as both of you shouldn't have started your posts like you did) Two captains that bought the Atago thinking it would be 10x better just because it's Premium. Now you find out that's not the way it works and you get frustrated.

I don't know why on earth you would prefer 155mm if you can have 203mm. Because it's funny to have 6 rounds/m instead of 4?? It must be great taking 51.4 seconds to turn that turret instead 30. You spam a lot, you just don't do much.

Remember i'm talking about fully upgraded Mogami.

If you choose 203mm (obvious option for smart people with brains) the Atago has 3.8r/m and Mogami 4... yeah that's a huge difference... but still Atago is a bit better with 29 secs rotation instead of 30.

Is it the range? Atago has 15.8km while Mogami has 15.1...

The Mogami does have a bit better armour but Atago has 40100 HP instead of the 39.100 of the Mogami

AA is 34 rating in Atago. Mogami is 38. Wait a minute is that it??

Atago is faster at 35.6 knots while Mogami is 35 knots

Maybe is Manouverability? Nope. Atago is also better.

So tell me, what is it that Mogami has so much better than Atago?? 

You know what? You should have checked specs before you bought the ship or did you bought it without having at least a look at the specs???

 

Edit:

Ah! Did you even noticed that both of you have done as good with one ship as you did with the other??

 

[Exocet6951]

 

 

Two morons that bought the Atago thinking it would be 10x better just because it's Premium. Now you find out that's not the way it works and you get frustrated.

I don't know why on earth you would prefer 155mm if you can have 203mm. Because it's funny to have 6 rounds/m instead of 4?? It must be great taking 51.4 seconds to turn that turret instead 30. You spam a lot, you just don't do much.

Remember i'm talking about fully upgraded Mogami.

If you choose 203mm (obvious option for people with brains) the Atago has 3.8r/m and Mogami 4... yeah that's a huge difference... but still Atago is a bit better with 29 secs rotation instead of 30.

Is it the range? Atago has 15.8km while Mogami has 15.1...

The Mogami does have a bit better armour but Atago has 40100 HP instead of the 39.100 of the Mogami

AA is 34 rating in Atago. Mogami is 38. Wait a minute is that it??

Atago is faster at 35.6 knots while Mogami is 35 knots

Maybe is Manouverability? Nope. Atago is also better.

So tell me, what is it that Mogami has so much better than Atago?? 

You know what? You should have checked stats before you bought the ship or did you bought it without having at least a look at the specs???

 

Edit:

Ah! Did you even noticed that both of you have done as good with one ship as you did with the other??

 

 

Turret placement.

Triple forward facing at the front is much more flexible than the pyramid arrangment the Atago has.

 

Also, armor is the difference between the Atago being citpen'd by 155mm AP shells, and the Mogami stopping those same shells. 1000hp difference makes almost litterally no difference at that tier.

[Ton0kki]

Mogami´s turret turn time isn´t much over 30s with 155mm guns if you have the captain skill for it. 155mm guns also have almost 19km range with that level 4 captain skill. 155mm guns reload 50% faster and there are 50% more of them. You can also wreck cruisers with them no matter angling (HE). I don´t own Atago but I have grinded through Ibuki and in my opinion those 155mm guns are way superior to those 203mm. 

[MS_Surface]

 

Turret placement.

Triple forward facing at the front is much more flexible than the pyramid arrangment the Atago has.

 

Also, armor is the difference between the Atago being citpen'd by 155mm AP shells, and the Mogami stopping those same shells. 1000hp difference makes almost litterally no difference at that tier.

 

That's a good point but you can't fire with the middle turret facing the front as it is at the same level as the first turret. The armor is weaker at specific places, not everywhere. I don't really know where.

 

Mogami´s turret turn time isn´t much over 30s with 155mm guns if you have the captain skill for it. 155mm guns also have almost 19km range with that level 4 captain skill. 155mm guns reload 50% faster and there are 50% more of them. You can also wreck cruisers with them no matter angling (HE). I don´t own Atago but I have grinded through Ibuki and in my opinion those 155mm guns are way superior to those 203mm. 

 

You must show me that skill that takes away 21.4 seconds to Mogami tower rotation. Anyway, you can't use skills in Atago?

Does the Mogami gives you free xp like Atago? Do you have to retrain Captains? Does it gives you more credits?

 

Atago is better. People just complain because they expected it to be MUCH better and it isn't. Did WG told captains that Atago had 155mm guns?? I don't mean you, you don't have it, but why buy it in the first place if you think 155mm is better? It's not cheap, do people buy ships without looking at it's specs or were they hidden at the time?

[Ton0kki]

 

You must show me that skill that takes away 21.4 seconds to Mogami tower rotation. Anyway, you can't use skills in Atago?

Does the Mogami gives you free xp like Atago? Do you have to retrain Captains? Does it gives you more credits?

 

Just checked, expert marksman does indeed take 21.4s from Mogami´s turret rotation. You can use it with Atago too, but it´s much less effective for 203mm guns. Also, advanced fire training doesn´t affect those 203mm guns at all. Obviously Mogami doesn´t have perks of premium ships but they don´t  affect battle performance.

 

I´m just saying that I have tried both guns with Mogami and I perform much better with 155mm and I´m not the worst cruiser captain.

[mtm78]

Well certainly this new update is nice and i thank WG for most changes and additions. I did like to read that and i think it's going to really improve gameplay.

Now, there are some things i can't understand:

 

1 - Atago was always a better ship than Mogami. We have no doubts here i hope. WG nerfed Mogami because it was OP (as WG said)

Now WG buff Atago because it's too weak? Can you please explain the logic behind these two changes?

2 -  A lot of YouTubers saying Des Moines is OP, i see players all the time in battles saying they love Des Moines because is so OP. So WG buff Des Moines. Again, who have WG been listening to?

Edit: forget about point 2, Zao is actually better and this is bringing to much noise to what i think is really important.

 

3 - The changes in USN DDs are good, there's more chances for USN DD Captains but...

What about IJN high tier DDs?? They already have weaker artillery than USN ones. IJN had the advantage of range (not anymore it looks) but anything more than 10km range is just wasting torpedos, that is more than proved. Even at 10km you only hit the noobs and WG knows that..

Most complains i see are about how broken gameplay is for high tier IJN DDs! Did WG skip that reading?

So what does WG do? Buff Cruisers (the most likely to kill DDs) and buff Bombers (they also like DDs)

 

As for IJN high tier DD it goes like this:

"hey DD go spot ships"

"hey DD go cap"

most BBs and CA captains don't even know that the biggest help IJN DDs are giving is area denial, suppressing, making enemy ships turn to dodge torps making their main guns out of aim and sparing the team of hundreds of shells. It's easier to fire at ships that are not aiming at you.

Most of the times, DD captains will try to do all of this and maybe, just maybe, if there's a few noobs in the enemy team, hit 1 or 2 torps before sinking, and that's it! You did a lot, you helped a lot and you can see the results of your actions in the end result screen with everybody earning a lot more than you.

These same BB captains that ask for your help, in the next game they will  be playing against you and calling you a bug because thats the role of high tier IJN DDs: bugging ships.

If someone is going to say "hey dude play another class then" please get lost. I want to play IJN DDs. I just want the same chances as other classes.

 

So my answers from now untill WG fixes high tier DD gameplay will be:

"hey DD go spot ships" -

- why don't YOU do the spotting? Spotting doesn't give me XP or Credits.

"hey DD go cap"

- "why don't YOU go cap? Cap is worthless for XP and Credits"

 

Teamplay? Honour? that won't do much for me but it will always make others earn more XP and Credits.

 

I really hope that someone involved in the game replies to me and says something like: "We didn't forget about high tier IJN DDs, we are going to do this and that...." you know what i mean?

 

You must take into account that i only complain this much because i really like the game. When i don't like a game i don't go over the trouble of even posting. In fact, this is about the only game i actually (sometimes) put money on to have Premium. It's not only Atagos that give WG money you see?

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

Atago better than Mogami, can I have what you're smoking? 

 

Sorry but that makes it hard for me to read the rest, if you're thinking Atago > Mogami then the rest is surely not worth reading either.