New Mexico vs Fuso

[victory122]

Hey. So I've been playing with the U.S. battleships for a while now and loved it until I saw the difference in stats with the Japanese counterparts. For exapmle, right now I'm palying with a New Mexico and I'm having a hard time dealing with the Fusos  out there. So I went over to the Japanese tree and noticed that all of the Fusos' stats(except for concealment) are better. So is the Fuso really that much better then the New Mexico? or is it just how you play them?

[Getzamatic]

Fuso's armour is worse, and it's citadel is huge.  The New Mexico is a much, much tougher ship in practice.

[Doolio]

Try to close the distance and don't give fuso your broadside - at least that's my experience from playing fuso. If a NM player knows what he is doing and is properly angled when needed, I am having great troubles dealing any significant damage to him and will VERY quickly shift my fire to other ships, even those that are further away. The reverse doesn't apply - an angled fuso is much more prone to penetrations through the "beak", plunging deck shots or armor overall. If a NM manages to "honeybager" his way into mid-close range, he is much better at soaking damage than fuso.

That said, fuso is an awesome ship, it's just that his strength lies elsewhere.

But, generally, even applying just one thing (being steeply angled) in a NM vs Fuso does the joob VERY VERY well.

[Drycon]

New Mexico is a tough opponent for Fuso, I drive a Fuso and the few encounters with the New Mexico I have remembered.

I will try to keep you at range until I think you are softened up enough or distracted.

As always, a lone BB is a dead BB so when I have support I will charge you.

1 vs 1 is just not really favorable for the Fuso at medium/close ranges.

[ollonborre]

Also the NM has way better AA, not to mention better firing angles on its turrets. With 4 turrets instead of 6 the NM can more easily bring all of its guns to bear on a target, and the turrets are much sturdier.

[BabyAdmiral]

Fuso's armour is worse, and it's citadel is huge. 

 

^ This is the main difference. Japanese BBs in general are more fragile. If you want a sturdy ship that can "take a lot of beating", the New Mexico is far better at the job.

[GulvkluderGuld]

Fuso's armour is worse, and it's citadel is huge.  The New Mexico is a much, much tougher ship in practice.

 

NM can citadel a fuso at any range (my record is 17 km, and its quite easy if he isnt angled)

I've never citadelled an opposing NM much beyond point blank (~5-8 km) range.

 

So while Fuso's can get the job done (eventually) if they know what they are doing, they would have to fall very, very far back from whatever objective they were trying to cap....in fact i highly doubt the Fuso could win a duel vs NM at ANY range provided the NM angles properly - due to one mistake = citadel hit for NM.

 

The only BBs i fear taking on 1v1 in my NM are those 16' bastards in Tier VII and up.

[Comrad_StaIin]

The only BBs i fear taking on 1v1 in my NM are those 16' bastards in Tier VII and up.

You mean like my Amagi 

[GulvkluderGuld]

You mean like my Amagi 

 

Uhm, I take it you think NM could kick Amagi's arse?

[Poster_2015]

I actually prefer to take my distance vs Fuso. Her guns are a bit better at long range, but your armor is just in a different league at those ranges. At short range she has harder time to citadel/penetrate you, but she can do it (and he shoots faster/has more hp etc etc). At long range, its actually EASIER to penetrate Fuso due to abysmal deck armor she posses. Honestly, at 20km+ range (granted thats only with plane for NM), i had multiple citadel salvoes vs Fuso more times then i can count. There is a reason why after initial fuso rush for rankeds its all but disappeared in those - when people move in packs and fuso has the huge X mark on its deck, its usually very very short lived. In normals where people fail to group up/focus well, Fuso is an absolute beast due to great guns and generally well rounded characteristics. But a focused Fuso is a dead Fuso, way more then NM.

[Ph3lan]

As others pointed out, the New Mexico is simply a tougher ship and in my experience in a 1vs1 it can easily hold its own against the Fuso. The NM is probably my favorite USN ship and whenever I saw a Fuso I would just try to close the distance, use my superior armor, angle my ship between shots and just demolish it. If closing the distance is not an option, you can still reliably fight against the Fuso from the edge of your engagement range or use your spotter plane, your armor is still better and a good salvo can easily citadel the Fuso. The Fuso is faster and can use its greater range, but as soon as it is in your shooting range I feel like the NM is superior. 

[Arkhannan]

I think the 2 ships are quite similar and comparable but I sold my NM and kept the Fuso for 1 sole point: The "huge" 8 sec difference in reload sec. It really makes all the difference when you're swarmed by many cruisers and DD's, but also in the game of hide and seek with enemy BB's.

 

That fact means that you able to put out that extra little bit of damage that is needed to win and is the reason why I deal 11K more dam pr. match with the Fuso on average compared to NM.

[sinky1975]

For me New Mexico is much better. In my New Mexico in one to one batle always sunk Fuso. Fuso maybe have longe range but it is much lager sperd of shells.

New Mexico have better armour.

[Linushg]

As Ph3lan pointed out both the NM and the Fuso got their strenghts and weaknesses but consider that the Fuso is a lot younger than the NM, therefore the better stats overall. Ive played both during the CBT and I feel its not the ship that makes how the battle ends but rather how you use your ships strength and use its weaknesses to your own advantage. For the Fuso its all about staying at LONG range untill you got support or got your opponent down to a one shot because it got a huge citadel and pretty terrible armour compare to the US counterparts. For the NM you got to fight at short to medium range and avoid long. Use you armour and smaller citadel to your advantage. And this goes for all ships, never EVER sail in a strait line unless you are aiming, after the shots are out you should change course directly. And GL on the seas.

 

[Poster_2015]

I think the 2 ships are quite similar and comparable but I sold my NM and kept the Fuso for 1 sole point: The "huge" 8 sec difference in reload sec. It really makes all the difference when you're swarmed by many cruisers and DD's, but also in the game of hide and seek with enemy BB's.

 

That fact means that you able to put out that extra little bit of damage that is needed to win and is the reason why I deal 11K more dam pr. match with the Fuso on average compared to NM.

 

Just 5 sec difference (28.5 vs 33.5), or you can say Fuso can dish out 16% more damage. 

Dispersion is 216m on NM vs 163 on Fuso at 15 km (assuming Fuso takes the accuracy module which i think is best for it). This is the main selling point for guns not the reload.

Fuso is more accurate which is why it deals so much better with DD/CA swarm. But  I don't think I ever citadel-ed a NM in a Fuso at close to max range, while in NM at 17+km i get maybe 1 citadel every 4 hits vs Fuso. People really tend to look at hp and side armor , and ignore the again ABYSMAL deck armor on Fuso (especially stock Fuso - but lets agree stock fuso is a contender for worst battleship ever). 

 

In a ranked when in my Nagato Fusos are 100% priority targets - they dish out a lot of damage and are easier to kill then cruisers - making it a no-brainer choice. Thats why past 10th rank Fusos pretty much disappear from rankeds - too many people do just the same as me. 

 

In a non-ranked where you have better chance of getting small skirmishes vs cruisers/destroyers Fuso can however outperform not only NM but Nagato as well - with Colorado far behind (Colorado is the opposite of Fuso - it actually thrives in ranked environment, becoming a very strong choice in the "meta" of ranked matches as opposed to being very weak even after buffs in randoms).

[evilmii]

"In a ranked when in my Nagato Fusos are 100% priority targets - they dish out a lot of damage and are easier to kill then cruisers - making it a no-brainer choice. Thats why past 10th rank Fusos pretty much disappear from rankeds - too many people do just the same as me. "

I`d say you may be wrong with this one Poster_2015.

At this moment i`m rank 5 and played mostly with Fuso.

I consider 3 main advantages of Fuso VS NM:

1.Better reload time which translate in more shots/dpm.

2. More turrets which gives a lot more flexible gameplay. AND not to mention i`d hate to loose 3 guns together when loosing a turret.

3. Most IMPORTANT SPEED! Fuso is a 5 knts faster and this is a major factor even/especially in ranked battles. As long as u have the speed advantage u can control the battle in 1vs1 against NM. And most of all in ranked where teams are a lot smaller and u have to cover a lot of distance. Speed gives u the choice to fight or to retreat and disengage.

I played a lot both of them. Sure i was not afraid of Fuso while playing NM but a good skipper with a Fuso will control the engagement with NM using the speed and longer range of the guns.

[Cosseria]

Yet when in Fuso I feel really powerless against a decently skipped NM. My shells just keep dishing 1k, 3k , 1k, 2k, 1k, 1k damage each new salvo. Meanwhile, each of his salvoes, even if striking me from extreme angles, deals no less than 5k damage, not to talk about what happens if he manages to ambush me and fire a volley on my side.

I don't know, I like both but I just feel safer and in control when skipping the NM and I never really suffered for the lack of speed. It's like the battlecruisers vs. battleships issue, most of the times I just use my Fuso extra speed to run rather than to fight.

[Poster_2015]

"In a ranked when in my Nagato Fusos are 100% priority targets - they dish out a lot of damage and are easier to kill then cruisers - making it a no-brainer choice. Thats why past 10th rank Fusos pretty much disappear from rankeds - too many people do just the same as me. "

I`d say you may be wrong with this one Poster_2015.

At this moment i`m rank 5 and played mostly with Fuso.

I consider 3 main advantages of Fuso VS NM:

1.Better reload time which translate in more shots/dpm.

2. More turrets which gives a lot more flexible gameplay. AND not to mention i`d hate to loose 3 guns together when loosing a turret.

3. Most IMPORTANT SPEED! Fuso is a 5 knts faster and this is a major factor even/especially in ranked battles. As long as u have the speed advantage u can control the battle in 1vs1 against NM. And most of all in ranked where teams are a lot smaller and u have to cover a lot of distance. Speed gives u the choice to fight or to retreat and disengage.

I played a lot both of them. Sure i was not afraid of Fuso while playing NM but a good skipper with a Fuso will control the engagement with NM using the speed and longer range of the guns.

 

Well Id like to point out though, that Fuso in rankeds is usually paired against Colorado or Nagato, not NM. NM can hold its own vs 410mm guns, Fuso really cannot. If there was enough players to pair tier 6 vs tier 6 , i STILL wouldnt choose Fuso for rankeds, but it would make more sense. Also in rankeds currently the score counter goes so fast you need to actively fight for caps from the start (I do like the slight increase on counters in next season - caps will be still important but not shutting down any attempt to play a "longer game"). So you can stay at 22km and provide little help to team, or get closer and get focused. 

[t0ffik1]

Well from what i know its easy to deal huge amount of dmg 10-15/18k from 1 salvo on New Mexico... just shoot on upper belt (well it works good for most bb's of that tier) as its easier to breach and gives almost as much dmg from salvo then a citadel. With Fuso it is way easier to do on high/medium range then for New Mexico doing it to you. Damn shooting in that place made me do constant 15-18k dmg salvos even to tirpiztes from 15k under.

You dont have to aim always 100% exacly for citadel to bring in someone down fast and on long enough range, the shells breach the upper belt and then citadel also and its similary easy for both nations BB's.

Also dont engage on closer range the New mexicos if they arent under 50% and always angle, but bringing them down is doable with relative low/decent skill.

 

In my ranked matches so far i only see IJN Fuso and Nagato dominating over US bb's (in number and mostly in the XP they get)... Damn in Nagato i 2 salvo'd yesterday from 100% to 0 fully ugpraded Colorado from 14k range (with devastating strike), and did similar things to New Nexicos.

Even in Fuso maybe it wasnt so drastic, but before they could get in relative effective range they were easy at 50-60%hp with cd on heal and if not just turn and mow them down while they cant get to you - and as long as you dont yacht in 1 direction there is almost no chance a New Mexico or Colorado hit you from long range. Damn in Nagato even today i 2 shotted a Warspite who generaly is a little heavier then New Mexico (and citadelet a New Mexico from front at around 20-30% angle).

 

Overall yes IJN bb's are more fragile and with a lacking awarness yachting captain it can make it easier to dmg, but their vastly superior range and accuracy (reload on Fuso/ Cal on Nagato) specially in 2 on 2 or more bb's makes difference enough that mostly 1 US bb is very low retreating till it gets to under 15k range where it can try to effective fire, thats why i noticed that most ppl focus more IJN bb's - and partly because they need more awarness because of lower armor what many ppl lack even on medium tier rankeds - damn its easier to punish from 15-25k IJN bb users as most of them doesnt react till they are hit 1st or 2nd time - if you play like that its not a ship for you.

 

Summing things up... Yes afk yachters are better off in US bb's just like afk yachters are better of in US cruisers (excellent example is Cleaveland), but guys who actually can use their ships very good and have good map awarness and team play are i think better off in IJN ships as yes... They require more finesse and being carefull but for that you get wastly superior range/dmg/accuracy in most cases what just stacks better and better if you can coordinate your actions/target focus with others, and allow for more match controling ty to higher speed what is mostly crucial. Its typical... What you cant steamroll you can evade long enough till you can do it.

 

But dont know why Nagato is tier 7tbh with overnerfed not real armor layout, when its deck armor in reality was minimally thicker then North Carolinas (and way thicker then Tirpizt) and armor was made on the same way it was later build in Tirpizt/Bismark but minimally thinner 305mm belt +75mm at 45deg angled armor deck connecting to buttom of lower belt to get through citadel - so way thicker then North Carolinas/Colorados/New Mexicos) - Nagato was on pair in reality with North Carolinas lower firepower/guns/speed for better range/acc/armor on medium/low range fights... Dont know why Amagi was picked as tier 8 - maybe because of higher displacement = more hp...

[GulvkluderGuld]

Well from what i know its easy to deal huge amount of dmg 10-15/18k from 1 salvo on New Mexico... just shoot on upper belt (well it works good for most bb's of that tier) as its easier to breach and gives almost as much dmg from salvo then a citadel. With Fuso it is way easier to do on high/medium range then for New Mexico doing it to you. Damn shooting in that place made me do constant 15-18k dmg salvos even to tirpiztes from 15k under.

 

Never heard of anybody reliably getting 15-18k non-citpens on a properly angled NM at range.

Not using 14' guns anyway (athough 16' might get that sort of damage). Gonna try it in the Training room with 14' guns.

In my ranked matches so far i only see IJN Fuso and Nagato dominating over US bb's (in number and mostly in the XP they get)... Damn in Nagato i 2 salvo'd yesterday from 100% to 0 fully ugpraded Colorado from 14k range (with devastating strike), and did similar things to New Nexicos.

Even in Fuso maybe it wasnt so drastic, but before they could get in relative effective range they were easy at 50-60%hp with cd on heal and if not just turn and mow them down while they cant get to you - and as long as you dont yacht in 1 direction there is almost no chance a New Mexico or Colorado hit you from long range. Damn in Nagato even today i 2 shotted a Warspite who generaly is a little heavier then New Mexico (and citadelet a New Mexico from front at around 20-30% angle).

 

Colorado at tier VII has less hp than NM at tier VI. Enouff said.

I've 2 salvoed Nagatos at 15 kms in my Colorado too.

The things are made out of citadels untill upgrades put some decent armor on.

 

Warspites are generally much much easier targets than NM's in my experience. 

Something to do with (crap) armor that lets them take massive damage at any range. 

Just stay out of their secondary range and they're easy meat.

They also can't shoot back if you stay at max range in NM with range module.

[t0ffik1]

Yes the difference is Colorado is heavier armored (well not heavlier but its belt is higher) then NM, where Nagato has basicly the same armor as fuso ty to forcing it into tier 7 and not leavling a tier 8 what it was.

And if you cant do a such salvo to NM while it is showing you partly a broad side or fully broad side, then you must better up your targeting, as if you shoot its main belt then yes you wont do much dmg, but 10-12k salvos even from non fuso are doable with relative ease to NM's if you shoot minimally higher (as its main belt is relative low i hight and you can use its upper main belt as its bigger then in few other ships - or at least easier to hit).

Here you have NM's armor scheme

 

http://menzgaming.com/worldofwarships/armor-guide-new-mexico/

 

here watch and learn... the green over the belt will guarantee you a 10k+ salvo even from kongo if you hit it specially over 10-12km range where your bullets hit its deck armor making decent chances to citade - Yes here you shoot on All Or Nothing style ships. In this part of the ship you mostly score good hits (as the bullets never overpen on every BB's when your not shure you cant citadel his belt) while on IJN bb's the armor is thicker there and allows sometimes for angling (works only on sharp angles though), on US ones you cant angle it (damn even fuso can take such shots better as it hs 6 turrets making this area lower).

Yes i rarely got citadeled by tier 6-7 US bb's if i was angling on Kongo/Fuso/Nagato - they are only more voulnurable to citadels if showing broadsides, what most yachting BB users do.

Thats the main weakeness of New Mexico... The main power of New Mexico is that not many ppl know yet hot to shoot it and they are to low tier to actually have enough experience with the different armor layout then every BB had till now (US,IJN). 

Its a case like in Cleaveland when you know where to citadel cleaveland they are as easy to kill as other cruisers while having a year till their salvos hit you. 

When you know where to shoot (it is a little different from ships of lower tier of its class) then you can rape it before it goes into his effective range (and it cant angle it because of the all or nothing armor scheeme where even on Nagato you can angle that part of the ship and take lower dmg) making it lowest priority target when in compare to IJN ships who will always do dmg even on huge range.

Btw if you know how to angle you can make easy citadels under the main front turrets (or even detonate the ship).

 

Hope this will help you to kill NM's faster ;)

[GulvkluderGuld]

http://menzgaming.com/worldofwarships/armor-guide-new-mexico/

 

Btw if you know how to angle you can make easy citadels under the main front turrets (or even detonate the ship).

 

Thanks for the tips & link. Defo gonna take a look too. Currently awaiting Aslains mod for patch 5.1

 

Not sure which ship you talk about cit-penning under the front turrets, I kinda got confused.....NM??

[t0ffik1]

Akansas beta, probably Wyoming and NY also, and NM and Colorado - look on both armor layouts, their turrets are not connected with the same armor to citadel, but with 150mm armor = huge weak spot

[T0rad]

kind off bummer when i hear how good colo now is. when i played it, it was weakest ship around. no armour, no accuracy, no damage. and we had to grind with that. but to the point, i think fuso is stronger, not in duel, but overall performance. last time i duelled NM, i took his frontal turrets in two salvos... he lost half his attack power. 

[Hauptbahnhof]

 

^ This is the main difference. Japanese BBs in general are more fragile. If you want a sturdy ship that can "take a lot of beating", the New Mexico is far better at the job.

 

Not to mention that the NM turns on a dime and has better AA too. The Fuso will eat torpedoes alot more frequently both by Carrier and Destroyer strikes.