I didn't know it was possible to citadel a BB from a Cruiser

[D7v]

Happened to me only once when driving Königsberg I forgot to switch HE I always use HE vs BB s.. AP shot on Kongo Class IJN Battleship resulted in 1 citadel hit... I tried so many times citadelling BB s before with my cruisers and it had never worked. Is it something special to Königsberg ?

[mk_sky]

First of all the Kongou Class is a Battlecruiser (BC) / Fast Battleship (FBB) so practically a Battleship with less armor to improve the speed and maneuverability.

And also to the less armor than a "full" Battleship, the RNG probably just gone YOLO and was thinking that a citadel would been nice.

 

So nothing usual or unusual about that, it will eventually happen again or eventually happen never again.

Just carry on offering some goats to the RNGesus and maybe you will get lucky again ...

[Nekomancer]

You probably hit the deck armor, which is rather weak on IJN ships. Firing at high ranges can result in a penetration and even a citadel hit.

[Comrad_StaIin]

if you were some what close you can citadel BBs pretty easiely

[Vaderan]

Some of the IJN battlecruiser designs can be citadelled even by lower calibre guns. Myogi, Kongo, maybe even the Amagi. It is well known that the Kongo class was vulnerable to 6" and 8" shells.

However, a citadell penetration with a cruiser on a BB is really, really rare. It is more of a lucky hit, then reproducable on a reliable base. Thus it appears just firing HE on any type of BB is the more reliable way to inflict damage.

However, if you have tons of experience with AP penetration values on your cruiser, you can check for the medicore armed parts on BBs and try to hit them. They might not result in citadell hits, but deliver decent damage by regular penetrations.

[Andreevson]

I have seen a pic of a Zao scoring 8 citadel hits in 1 salvo on a montana, but at pretty close range.

 

 

Now unlike a Montana, the Japanese tier 4,5, and maybe even higher tiered BBs, are not actually battleships, but battlecruisers, which have at best 200mm of armor over the citadel, compared to the wyoming and new york wich have 300 to 350 and are proper heavy BBs. If you catch a Kongo unangled and you have a good firing angle you can citadel it in a cruiser, especially if it is a heavy cruiser.

[PhroX]

I once citadelled a Myogi in a US DD (I forget which)......with HE

 

[Nekomancer]

That i find hard to believe. The Myogi is not that well armored, but not that bad either.

[Shepbur]

That i find hard to believe. The Myogi is not that well armored, but not that bad either.

 

It's correct, however it was a rather common bug that HE shells from small calibre guns would score "citadel hits", although they would rarely do much damage to the ship in question.

[Z_OnkelE]

Well I was pretty amazed by a citadel I got in my Omaha on a Wyoming! That game got me the Ognevoi yesterday, so it's probably a once in a lifetime sort of thing :p.

[T0rad]

Guys, i once citadelled and equat tier BB with COLORADO. i almost had to take the day off for celebrations. And, by the way, it was tirpitz of all the BBs i fired at trough whole grind. I admit that was before the boost (when the arti stat on Colo was lower than on Mexico)  

[Admiral_noodle]

I once citadelled a Myogi in a US DD (I forget which)......with HE

 

Aww beat me to it. I did this with an Omaha firing HE. 

[Meneleus]

Plunging fire vs weak deck armour I reckon. I citadelled a Fuso with the Ognavoi using an HE shell. The citadel hit popping up was a lolwut moment to be sure.

 

Cheers, M

[2ndaryBattleTank]

Citadels from a cruiser on a BB are possible, but very rare. But even without those, AP can in many cases by a good choice that can outscore the average damage done per shot of HE. But it all depends on range, angle, what you are shooting at and what you are shooting with. It is hard to give a general guideline that will work all the time, but try AP at mid range and you might be surprised.

[RamirezKurita]

It's a combination of the Kongo class being a battlecruiser (armour and speed of a cruiser, guns and size of a battleship) rather than a battleship and pre-jutland designs typically having relatively thin deck armour (which the hull upgrades somewhat fixes) so long range shots work well on them. The Konigsberg also has pretty good penetration on it's guns for it's tier, it's similar to the Furutaka in that regard.

[Nekomancer]

The Kongō present in the game, is not a Battlecruiser anymore, as it's the uparmored version from 1929, not the Battlecruiser she started her life as nearly 20 years prior. Doesn't change the fact that the Kongō has pretty weak deck armor though. That bit didn't change.

[Unintentional_submarine]

 

It's correct, however it was a rather common bug that HE shells from small calibre guns would score "citadel hits", although they would rarely do much damage to the ship in question.

 

Yeah, but in the case of Myogi her belt only goes down to the waterline. Below the waterline she has 19mm of protection. 19mm is important as it allows any gun of 120mm or larger to penetrate with HE. Hitting that area isn't easy, but if she is going at high speed and turns fully inwards towards the shooter, then she shows this area... and a lot of it as she lists heavily in turns. Alternatively this area is also exposed when the waves pass by. Yeah, the waves. Not the little ones, but the almost imperceptible ones that sometimes exposes the 'red'. Hit in such a depression and you can in fact hit the 19mm armour and get into the citadel.

 

After getting a citadel on a Myogi with a Grem HE, I ran a number of tests in the Training Room, and I was able to reproduce it. Repeatedly in fact. Not so often as to make it something worth fishing for, but there was a clear pattern there. Which might explain why Myogi appears to be the most common victim of these DD HE citadel hits.

 

Regarding citadels from cruisers.

Yeah it is certainly possible with 8 inch guns. Of course it is something that fluctuates up and down the tiers.

For instance, I ran a lot of AP penetration tests with Aoba against Wyoming, Myogi, Kongo and New York. She could reliably citadel Kongo out to 8km from a good angle, she had issues citadeling Myogi and Wyoming from more than 3km. And I couldn't get citadels on New York at either super short or longer ranges. Unfortunately I couldn't test max ranges due to the spotting ranges, but Aoba's range isn't that impressive and the shells have a shallow arc, so I doubt deck penetrations would do better.

And we all know about the high tier cruisers throwing citadels left and right at short ranges. Until them however, I can see the cruisers having a hard time getting citadels on Nagato and New Mex/Colorado/NC. But against Fuso and Amagi... yeah that should be quite possible.

[SkybuckFlying]

Euhm I am kinda new to this.

 

What exactly happens when citadel gets hit ? And why doesn't the game explain this ? Is this something fun to explore and discover/learn for yourself ? I did start to notice it in the scoring: "citadels hit".

 

First I thought it ment a big ship or something... like the leader ship... I was also sometimes under impression if leader ship died game would end.

 

But now I am starting to think citadel means something like the bridge... I started shooting at it since a day or so.. and did notice a big hit to it... and enemy HP decreases by quite a lot.

 

There was even a cool voice that said something like: "Direct hit" or something like: "Bingo... full hit" can't really remember.

 

Is this why destroyers die with detonation ? Hit to it's citadel ?

[Del_Mare]

Euhm I am kinda new to this.

 

What exactly happens when citadel gets hit ? And why doesn't the game explain this ? Is this something fun to explore and discover/learn for yourself ? I did start to notice it in the scoring: "citadels hit".

 

First I thought it ment a big ship or something... like the leader ship... I was also sometimes under impression if leader ship died game would end.

 

But now I am starting to think citadel means something like the bridge... I started shooting at it since a day or so.. and did notice a big hit to it... and enemy HP decreases by quite a lot.

 

There was even a cool voice that said something like: "Direct hit" or something like: "Bingo... full hit" can't really remember.

 

Is this why destroyers die with detonation ? Hit to it's citadel ?

 

[GeneralRushHour]

Theres a video on youtube with a baltimore really close to an iowa and getting like 9 citadels and eventually kills it.

[EsaTuunanen]

Theres a video on youtube with a baltimore really close to an iowa and getting like 9 citadels and eventually kills it.

That sure wouldn't be impossible if you keep scaling penetration values for closer distance in here

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_8-55_mk12-15.htm

At point blank range it should be lot higher than ~10 km's 250 mm.

First of all hitting angle gets straighter which lowers effective thickness of armor.

And kinetic energy depends strongly on speed and at ~9 km it's already notably lower at 519 m/s than already ~5½ km.

Muzzle velocity of 762 m/s actually gives over twice the kinetic energy.

[Kvantov]

with Des Moines is possible to hit citadel on Yamato, Montana, North Calorina, Izumo, Amagi and Iowa. Iowa is the best target fot hitting citadels. Tirpitz is the hardest target, I hit him only once

[Mindfulcrane07]

I once citadelled a Myogi in a US DD (I forget which)......with HE

 

hey i have citadelled a Fuso with sampson i dont remember whether it was AP or HE 

[Historynerd]

The Kongō present in the game, is not a Battlecruiser anymore, as it's the uparmored version from 1929, not the Battlecruiser she started her life as nearly 20 years prior. Doesn't change the fact that the Kongō has pretty weak deck armor though. That bit didn't change.

 

As far as I know, the Kongō-class was not modified in terms of the thickness of its belt armour, even during the modernizations (they made it uniform, I think, as before the main and upper belt were not the same thickness). It remained 203 mm, 8-inches. Not an insurmountable obstacle for a good 203 mm gun, if well-placed.

[Unintentional_submarine]

 

As far as I know, the Kongō-class was not modified in terms of the thickness of its belt armour, even during the modernizations (they made it uniform, I think, as before the main and upper belt were not the same thickness). It remained 203 mm, 8-inches. Not an insurmountable obstacle for a good 203 mm gun, if well-placed.

 

It wasn't. The armour upgrade was more structural, bulkheads, compartmentalisation and uniformity of the belt. Essentially there was no difference in terms of what would penetrate her armour, only how much damage said penetrations would do post-penetration.

The fast battleship designation is the Japanese doing Japanese things. During her first modernisation, where the only 'armour' upgrade she got was torpedo bulges, she lost speed to 25 knots. That was apparently too slow for the Japanese to designate the class battlecruisers, so they were named battleships (probably had something to do with propaganda, a slow battlecruiser wouldn't sound all that powerful, but a 25 knot battleship however...). When the speed returned with the second modernisation they become fast battleships, rather than return to battlecruisers.