To WG: Is there anything being done about the essex/midway?

[RogDodgeUK]

moved to In-Game ships / Carriers

[BonchoSloncho]

They havent fixed clickers in wot yet and it's been out for 5 years now. What makes you think they will ever fix skillships? It's EXACTLY the same story all over again.

 

Just do what I do and stay at tier 8 and below. All else is pointless as a Midway "player" (not sure if it's the correct term, since they don't actually play the game) can just delete your ship from the game with a click or two.

 

Dude you are retarded.

[Carnivore81]

 

The problem lies on the relation skill-results that each class has. A CV unicum can achieve much more than a CA or DD unicum. BBs have gotten almost on the same level as CVs though, specially Yamato after all her buffs.

 

Almost! . There is a nearly 60k difference between Top Midway and Yamato players. 200k avg too 144k.WR is nearly the same though. 

 

[Hauptbahnhof]

Carnivore81, on 12 October 2015 - 02:10 AM, said:

 

Almost! . There is a nearly 60k difference between Top Midway and Yamato players. 200k avg too 144k.WR is nearly the same though. 

 

 

Well a bit of that is because they target different targets too.

A Battleships primary target is a cruiser and it has less HP then the Midways primary target ( BB/CVs ). Yes Battleships fire at each-other as well, but mixing in a few cruisers that CVs avoid or save for last will lower average damage.

For examples if cruisers can do the same avg damage as BB/CV can then something is broken, because they are supposed to counter DDs and Airplanes primary, and skirmish with enemy Cruisers secondary ( all of which have significantly less hp ).
 

Belacqua, on 08 October 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

 

The USA had a much better industry at the end of the war, in 1940 they had the same level of industrial production as the japanese, by 1944 they produced 4 times what the japan could produce. The US army has, have and probably will have lower quality troops and equipment than other develloped country, but they have far greater number and can replace their equipment faster.

 

Actually the difference was even bigger

USA had between 5 and 80 times Japans production before 1940 depending on what area you look at.

 

They had 10 times higher "warmaking potential" and in 1944 the US GDP was 8 times higher then Japans. Practically speaking though Japan could not even make use 10% of their production capacity outside of mainland Japan by 1944 since US submarines had sunk such a large part of their convoys and tankers.

Sources:
http://www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_production_during_World_War_II#GDP

And I don't think any historians will support your claim that the US troops or equipment were "lower quality". The soldiers were less experienced since they entered the war later, but were better supplied not only in terms of replacements but also how much heavy equipment and other support they could call in.

 

[DJ_Die]

Not to mention US soldiers tended to survive to be able to pass on their experience much more often than japs who often died in rather cowardly ways(strapping a bunch of grenades to their chest and pretending to be surrendering for example) or just charging the enemy. Same thing with airmen as Zero was a deathtrap if it got hit...

[Iron_Gekko]

Not to mention US soldiers tended to survive to be able to pass on their experience much more often than japs who often died in rather cowardly ways(strapping a bunch of grenades to their chest and pretending to be surrendering for example) or just charging the enemy. Same thing with airmen as Zero was a deathtrap if it got hit...

 

Erm... Japan loaded the Kamikaze Zero's with relatively new pilots who really just needed to know how to take off and fly straight, only the season pilots got put into it when Japan really got desperate.

 

Comparing the Japanese fighting spirit with the US is like apples and oranges, seeing as the Empire of Japan was a US creation it's kind of hard to blame them for it.

 

Also the X IJN CV is fine, just play air superiority and you're safe from the Midway.

[DJ_Die]

 

Erm... Japan loaded the Kamikaze Zero's with relatively new pilots who really just needed to know how to take off and fly straight, only the season pilots got put into it when Japan really got desperate.

 

Comparing the Japanese fighting spirit with the US is like apples and oranges, seeing as the Empire of Japan was a US creation it's kind of hard to blame them for it.

 

Also the X IJN CV is fine, just play air superiority and you're safe from the Midway.

Well by the time they started using kamikake attacks en masse they had almost no veteran pilots left due to Midway and Zeros burning the second someone just looked at them funny...Creating a plane thats great on paper but becomes a deathtrap for its pilot of hit is a bad idea if you dont have that many good pilots to begin with

Jap fighting spirit was one of the worst cases of fanaticism to stain the face of the earth with atrocities...

 

 

The CV situation at T9-10 pretty much reverses the trend where US CVs are just worse at everything compared to their IJN counterparts and there needs to be someone balancing but not as much as when it comes to mid tier CVs imho

 

 

[Hauptbahnhof]

 

Jap fighting spirit was one of the worst cases of fanaticism to stain the face of the earth with atrocities...

 

 

Yes, what a huge atrocity it is to sacrifice your own life to protect your country and family... ( basically what Japanese fighting spirit is about at it's core ).

 

I'm sure no American patriot ever would think of such a stain of fanaticism...

[Hauptbahnhof]

And to answer the OP: Yes this was answered in the stream yesterday on RU.

 

- Essex and Midway are too good. The stats for Essex are OK and won't be touched for now, but Midway will get slight nerf in 5.1 so it's no longer off the chart. Still that will be small nerf as there is no goal to make it bad, just not so overperforming as now.

[DJ_Die]

 

Yes, what a huge atrocity it is to sacrifice your own life to protect your country and family... ( basically what Japanese fighting spirit is about at it's core ).

 

I'm sure no American patriot ever would think of such a stain of fanaticism...

There would have been no need for japs to defend thier homes and families had they not performed a sneak attack on Pearl Harbor which was very honourable indeed just as their attack on China 

I don't recall ever reading about systematic killing of chinese population or having slave camps by US forces during WWII or even worse pretending to be surrendering and then blowing yourself up to kill as many enemies as you can? or even murdering POWs eitger directly or through hard work and malnutrition? Is this supposed to be honourable? Yeah right  Im not talking about occasional incidents because every war has a fair share of those unfortunately but about widespread atrocities and war crimes commited in the name of a divine emperor... But enough of that.

 

Im glad to hear about midway being rebalanced all we need now is to fix the situation in mid tiers and CVs should be mostly balanced....

 

[Ascender]

And to answer the OP: Yes this was answered in the stream yesterday on RU.

 

 

Good to hear. This is in-line with how I experience/have experienced things from both the Yamato, Hakuryu and Taiho perspective. The Essex, by measure of comparison, has less hitpoints than the Taiho and worse torpedo protection. It's 1-2-2 setup is less valuable on account of far less durable strike planes, the result of which is that both the ship and it's planes can be more effectively dealt with. All such 'disadvantages' vanish when going to the Midway which is superior to the Essex and Hakuryu in almost every measurable stat.

 

To me though the biggest issue is still the general lack of viability for a fighter setup. I tried going 4-2-2 Hakuryu for a little bit and it results in hectic frustration, where you are spending seas of time flailing your arms around landing and taking off groups just to result in shooting down perhaps 50 Midway aircraft at the end of the match, with 136 aircraft in total that means hardly a dent was made. Considering I have no issues shooting down even 40 tier 9 aircraft in the game with a Yamato it makes me really wonder just what the point of fighters is...  personally I feel that if fighters are made far more effective to make the fighter setups work, at least for the Japs, they will have value again and the Midway CAN be checked, right now it cannot be checked and runs rampant.

[Hauptbahnhof]

 

I don't recall ever reading about systematic killing of chinese population or having slave camps

 

 

Can you please explain how IJ Army atrocities against china is in any way what so ever related to the "Japanese fighting spirit" the IJ Navy pilots showed when fighting in Zeroes or volunteered for Kamikaze missions against USA which is what was being discussed?

 

It's about as relevant as if I would say that US Marines on the ground committed atrocities in Afghanistan and their "fighting spirit is bad" because the US Air-force helicopters bombed civilians in Iraq... -_-

 

 

 

What I'm trying to say is that Kamikazes were a fully legitimate way to fight given the circumstances since the odds of returning home alive on a proper bombing mission for a pilot with that experience was about the same as for the Kamikaze, so don't bunch that together with war-crimes or atrocities.

[lankylad11_lankylad]

You can nerf Midway and Essex when you take the torpedo bombers away from Japanese Air Superiority loadouts, or remove one fighter squadron from each to replace with a dive bomber.  Americans never get Torpedo Bombers in their Air superiority loadouts so why should the Japanese when they also get a similar number of fighters.  American high tier carriers are never going to go air superiority cos you can't do enough damage with that, and you need damage to get the credits to run the thing.  In which case Japanese carriers achieve Air Superiority which is just wrong

[Hauptbahnhof]

You can nerf Midway and Essex when you take the torpedo bombers away from Japanese Air Superiority loadouts,

 

Sounds fine by me, as long as Japan get their 100% strike no-fighter setups back ( that US still have left ).

 

Deal?

 

 

All US CVs loadouts will be buffed when they introduce AP bombs to divebombers anyways.

[lankylad11_lankylad]

yeah the thing is though, American carriers only get one torpedo bomber at maximum till Essex in a strike loadout. and 1/2/2 v 2/3/3 is perfectly fair for balance.  AP Dive bombers will make the air superiority loadouts make sense somewhat.  If you limited Torpedo bombers in said loadouts to 3 squadrons then fine  But as an american carrier, if my Japanese opposite number has no fighters thats fine by me, cos he can't intercept my attacks then and i can leave my fighters over my fleet instead of using them for escort.

[jonasnee]

as a japanese carrier driver i must emit that playing vs American CVs is a lot harder than japanese CVs, i can usually still do well but frankly they nerfed japanese mid-high tier carriers to much while buffing American CVs, i understand why they took away a torp squad from the zuiho and the Ryujo those ships where clearly OP, but even back then the hiryu wasn't a good ship and the shokaku was just good enough for its tier.

[DJ_Die]

Hiryu is still better than Ranger by miles thats the problem. Zuiho is quite OK it would say even with mirror matchmaking you can still mostly beat Bogue unless you do something stupid or he just gets lucky.

[Spellfire40]

 

Don't worry, Hakuryu will probably get buff vs BBs with the 5.1 patch 

 

If the Buff Is the new spread i gladly pass on it becasue it means another tool that works only on afk players and is otherwise a nerf. Trasfered my Taiho Capain back to my Hiruyu at least there you can have fun.

 

 

Cya

 

 

Spellfire40

[Spellfire40]

You can nerf Midway and Essex when you take the torpedo bombers away from Japanese Air Superiority loadouts, or remove one fighter squadron from each to replace with a dive bomber.  Americans never get Torpedo Bombers in their Air superiority loadouts so why should the Japanese when they also get a similar number of fighters.  American high tier carriers are never going to go air superiority cos you can't do enough damage with that, and you need damage to get the credits to run the thing.  In which case Japanese carriers achieve Air Superiority which is just wrong

 

Well can only speak of Taiho but in Fighter loadout you cant stop a strike Essex. Or if you do it kills your fighters in no time because as in all Levels but 7 and 10 US can use the Dogfight expertise skill that bost their allready larger Squads. The time i defended agist its strike planes it ended 16 vs 32 airkills form him with his reserve fighters in the air and no reserve for my 3 Squads. 

 

 

cya

 

Spellfire40

[FloRead]

 

Sounds fine by me, as long as Japan get their 100% strike no-fighter setups back ( that US still have left ).

 

Deal?

 

 

All US CVs loadouts will be buffed when they introduce AP bombs to divebombers anyways.

 

I remember during CBT, the Essex's strike load out was 2 TB and 3 DB squadrons. That got changed to 1 fighter, 2 TB and 2 DB that we know today. I recall wondering how the IJN carriers managed to go to OBT without the same change until 0.4.1. 

[lankylad11_lankylad]

Yeah, i would rather that the Essex did not go from 1/2/2 to 0/2/3, that fighter squad is necessary, to help push through and do damage, and I would also point out Japanese CV's also get fighters in their aggresive loadouts now, so it would not be fair to take the fighter squad from essex.  I would probably even prefer 2 fighter 2 torp 1 dive.   The strike loadout of every american carrier from Langley through Lexington is broken at present, so why break Essex and Midway too. I would prefer for instance Ranger and Lexington to get say 1 fighter 2 dive 1 torp as its strike

[Hauptbahnhof]

I would prefer for instance Ranger and Lexington to get say 1 fighter 2 dive 1 torp as its strike

 

That would feel like a more balanced strike deck indeed, and would make more sense to remove all US strike decks without fighters like was done with IJN.

[lankylad11_lankylad]

Amen brother, totally agree on that one, just need to remove or limit to one the Torpedo bombers from Japanese Air Superiority loadouts and we are golden

[DJ_Die]

Couldnt agree more, retaining a single FP squad in strike confings on US carriers would be godsend because as it is i see way too many US CV players trying to play strike setup only to fail horribly against even an IJN strike setup....

[Leonadios]

Essex dive bombers with air superiority captain skill shot down ALL of my Shokaku's fighters without taking losses. Explain?