New Russian DD's

[Tugnut]

Best way to sum up tier7 and above ..... now imagine the cleveland.... now imagine fighting a cleveland that can see you can shoot you but you cant see him back   that sums up the high tier Russian DD's   a little OP me thinks and they must as some point get a little nerf!

 

watching Braincage playing them last night was OMG they are very OP lol.

[Vaderan]

They are not OP, they are historically accurate! Soviet russia build the best ships ever, in all decades, in all classes, in all wars. History just never noticed, but WG is here to correct history and teach the world!

Seriously, did anyone in here ever expect anything else but extremly powerfull ships within the russian techtree, once it is released? I mean, watch Murmansk, Gremi and the others. They are premium ships, considered to be between top researched and stock ships within their tier, and yet, they feel like the most powefull ships of their class and tier.

That tier 4 dreadnaught, Imperator Nikolay at tier 4, will have a Tirpitz protection layout. 270mm belt and a 75mm angled citadell housing plus some 100+mm od deck armor, spread across 4 layers. Due to the lack of penetration power and plunging fire at tier 4 battles, i expect that thing to practically immune to citadell hits.

 

Besides that, i really wonder what WG was thinking when designing a Tier 2 destroyer with 9 tubes and a 15 seconds reload on them. Yeah, only 3km range, but since secondary batteries are useless and the reload is half the time of a BB battery, aswell as just twice the time of a cruiser battery, who is going to stop one of those DDs?

 

It´s not op, it´s certainly not biased, it just superior russian engeneering and historically accurate...

[rafparis]

So what? It's 130mm guns in tier 7+ game, not a big deal. You can score a lot of hits but do little damage, and can be oneshot when detected. It's more annoying than OP.

[Niibler]

You can score a lot of hits but do little damage, and can be oneshot when detected. It's more annoying than OP.

 

Don't tell anyone but there's a thing called fires, battleships love them! wink wink.

Russian DD's are not OP, just more competitive right?

 and can be oneshot when detected 

 

Yeah hitting them 17km away while they are moving at 37-41kn is pretty easy.

 

[ColonelPete]

Let's just play them first.

[Tugnut]

So what? It's 130mm guns in tier 7+ game, not a big deal. You can score a lot of hits but do little damage, and can be oneshot when detected. It's more annoying than OP.

Its not the gun damage that was op.... it was the amount of fires it sets he kept the bb players almost perma on fire.  And when detected! Well some have a gun range of 14km and if he was spotted he was not easy to hit even with there slower turn rate and rudder shift... but for the most part he stayed unspotted or if he was his target was engaged with other targets.

 

Not sure if braincages playing last night is on youtube if it is go watch for your self.  The forums will soon for get about nerf cv nerf torps .... it will be all nerf the Russian invisible DD,s

[Broevaharo]

Remember that you only can shoot undetected with the 4th captain skill unlocked, I can do the same in the game with my Gremmy because I gives me a range of 14,3 km and I won't get spotted until 11,5 km, without that skill only the tier 9 and 10 have suffcicient range to pull of that trick.

[Sharana]

 

Don't tell anyone but there's a thing called fires, battleships love them! wink wink.

Russian DD's are not OP, just more competitive right?

 

Open the Braincage's video:

http://www.twitch.tv/braincage/v/19271817

 

Go to 07:16:10 and look him spamming Yamato. Annoying? Hell yes. Effective? - well 5 minutes later (spamming Yamato during that time) and after 213 hits with total 9 fires on Yamato it lost total of 25K hp after the constans repairs (light damage, 100% repaired). So much OP really.

This DDs are more fire support then the others + guns are more reliable then torps so it's very likely they will have the highest avarage stats in comparison with other DDs - same as Hinderburg and Zao which will have better damage then Des Moines as it's more AA escort then fire support. But OP?

[Broevaharo]

 

Open the Braincage's video:

http://www.twitch.tv/braincage/v/19271817

 

Go to 07:16:10 and look him spamming Yamato. Annoying? Hell yes. Effective? - well 5 minutes later (spamming Yamato during that time) and after 213 hits with total 9 fires on Yamato it lost total of 25K hp after the constans repairs (light damage, 100% repaired). So much OP really.

This DDs are more fire support then the others + guns are more reliable then torps so it's very likely they will have the highest avarage stats in comparison with other DDs - same as Hinderburg and Zao which will have better damage then Des Moines as it's more AA escort then fire support. But OP?

 

Against cruisers it's lethal though, until tier 9 they don't have the repair skil to regain strength, they can kill fires before that but they won't heal themselves, I totally raped Atlanta's in that tier8 DD because I just stayed out of his range.

[Niibler]

 

Open the Braincage's video:

http://www.twitch.tv/braincage/v/19271817

 

 

No need, I saw it live. I also seen all the other tiers of Russian DD's, have you?

[Broevaharo]

 

No need, I saw it live. I also seen all the other tiers of Russian DD's, have you?

 

Lolz he is a supertester m8, just like I am so we test them in game, we know what they can and can't do.

[Niibler]

 

Lolz he is a supertester m8, just like I am so we test them in game, we know what they can and can't do.

 

Glad you can vouche for him cause it doesn't look like he really knows. 

But since you guys know that Russian invisible flamethrower DDs are just balanced I withdraw my initial statement. Time will prove me wrong I guess.

 

[Broevaharo]

 

Glad you can vouche for him cause it doesn't look like he really knows. 

But since you guys know that Russian invisible flamethrower DDs are just balanced I withdraw my initial statement. Time will prove me wrong I guess.

 

 

They are lethal in the hands of a good DD captain and with that 4th captain skill unlocked but I doubt that the average Joe will have good stats on them, up to tier 7 they have only 4km range torps so they are only gunboats like the US DD's and look at what the average stats are on those ships.

[Vaderan]

By the time the russian DDs hit the servers, a bunch of players should already have some skilled russian captains, thanks to the lot of russian premium ships available. Unlocking the 20% range buff for the DD captain won´t take forever or will already be unlocked. Receiving ships which have the ability to fire 12+ rounds a minute, with a 9% chance of fire per hit, all doing this while remaining undetected and having the edge in terms of speed, to keep that distance, sounds quite unbalanced to me. Even if they might lack the firepower to bring down enemy BBs and CAs quickly, they can have a lot of impact on the game, like constantly resetting an enemy who attempts to cap a base, outrunning chasing CAs and DDs and kiting targets of any type at will. Chasing and bringing down one of these DDs will require insane luck in terms of gunnery, and at least the teamplay of 2 quick units to corner one of these DDs, i´d say. It´s not the raw gunpower which will setup other players, but the ability to avoid counterfire, damage, detection and destruction of these soviet DDs.

I already see what players can achieve in a Gremjaschtschi, and i had some excellent games in mine aswell. If the following DDs will increase in performance, those DDs will cause a storm of rage and frustration on these forums, i suppose...

 

[Sharana]

Glad you can vouche for him cause it doesn't look like he really knows. 

But since you guys know that Russian invisible flamethrower DDs are just balanced I withdraw my initial statement. Time will prove me wrong I guess.

 

I said there is difference between OP and just annoying. DM with it's high RoF and HE spam is annoying but the worst or the 2nd worst tier X ship. I'm not DD player and I don't think I'm even avarage DD player, but so are the most. I can't do regularly what Braincage did, yet that may look awsome but it's hardly effective at the end and as avarage stat over many battles. Here is video from Shima - looks so easy and  great yet so far away from avarage result.

 

 

[Niibler]

 

Fire damage will be too high for most cruisers in my opinion. But despite I think you guys are wrong I respect your perspectives. 

[Broevaharo]

By the time the russian DDs hit the servers, a bunch of players should already have some skilled russian captains, thanks to the lot of russian premium ships available. Unlocking the 20% range buff for the DD captain won´t take forever or will already be unlocked. Receiving ships which have the ability to fire 12+ rounds a minute, with a 9% chance of fire per hit, all doing this while remaining undetected and having the edge in terms of speed, to keep that distance, sounds quite unbalanced to me. Even if they might lack the firepower to bring down enemy BBs and CAs quickly, they can have a lot of impact on the game, like constantly resetting an enemy who attempts to cap a base, outrunning chasing CAs and DDs and kiting targets of any type at will. Chasing and bringing down one of these DDs will require insane luck in terms of gunnery, and at least the teamplay of 2 quick units to corner one of these DDs, i´d say. It´s not the raw gunpower which will setup other players, but the ability to avoid counterfire, damage, detection and destruction of these soviet DDs.

I already see what players can achieve in a Gremjaschtschi, and i had some excellent games in mine aswell. If the following DDs will increase in performance, those DDs will cause a storm of rage and frustration on these forums, i suppose...

 

 

Yes they are very good in all of what you are saying so it's quite possible they get nerfed but at the high tiers there are a lot of planes in the air so the chance of staying undetected while firng is not very high.

A Mahan and a Benson are also HE spammers, The Fletcher and the Gearing as well (with better torps than the RU DD's) and yet they aren't OP so we'll just have to wait and see what happens when all the players can have them.

[inAbag]

Its not the gun damage that was op.... it was the amount of fires it sets he kept the bb players almost perma on fire.  And when detected! Well some have a gun range of 14km and if he was spotted he was not easy to hit even with there slower turn rate and rudder shift... but for the most part he stayed unspotted or if he was his target was engaged with other targets.

 

Not sure if braincages playing last night is on youtube if it is go watch for your self.  The forums will soon for get about nerf cv nerf torps .... it will be all nerf the Russian invisible DD,s

 

This isn't a problem of Soviet DDs but once again shows the current problem with the HE shell model. HE shells cause fires way too frequently and damage/break modules way too easily.

 

But yeah Wargaming is not going to change it because #RememberTsushima tovarisch))))

[Andreevson]

Its telling when russian 130mm HE has the same or more fire chance than the german 203mm HE.

[Unintentional_submarine]

 

Yes they are very good in all of what you are saying so it's quite possible they get nerfed but at the high tiers there are a lot of planes in the air so the chance of staying undetected while firng is not very high.

A Mahan and a Benson are also HE spammers, The Fletcher and the Gearing as well (with better torps than the RU DD's) and yet they aren't OP so we'll just have to wait and see what happens when all the players can have them.

 

I think the difference is that if the USN DDs were to fire at the same distance their shells take up to 19 seconds to arrive (Gearing vs Khabarovsk), the shells leave the binoculars for so long you wonder if they will ever arrive. That makes even the Cleveland cry.

So yes, the USN DDs can certainly invisi-fire, but they are much much harder to do it with.

 

While it might not kill a battleship quickly, it will utterly wreck it's AA and secondaries, more so than cruisers (unless it is the DM of course). That alone can be a major pain, and that's on top of the damage. I'm not too worried about every game will have 5 higher tier soviet DDs inivisi-firing on every ship they see, and doing so effectively. But neither am I worried about IJN DDs filling up the games and letting me walk dry across the map. The difference is however that the Soviet DDs will handle the other DDs better, and can citadel at least some cruisers (I doubt they can citadel the Zao or DM).

it's like those destroyers have a solution to all ships, which is honestly not bad, but it 'internally' bad when the other destroyers don't.

[ilhilh]

I came up against the tier X ruskie yesterday when in my tirpitz and it was just constant barrage of fire that is nigh on impossible to deal with.  Not fun.

[OldGrandad]

All I will add is that their guns are their only saving grace. At least the high tier USN DDs have reasonable torpedoes. But nothing will settle this until more get them post release. 

[rafparis]

 

Open the Braincage's video:

http://www.twitch.tv/braincage/v/19271817

 

Go to 07:16:10 and look him spamming Yamato. Annoying? Hell yes. Effective? - well 5 minutes later (spamming Yamato during that time) and after 213 hits with total 9 fires on Yamato it lost total of 25K hp after the constans repairs (light damage, 100% repaired). So much OP really.

This DDs are more fire support then the others + guns are more reliable then torps so it's very likely they will have the highest avarage stats in comparison with other DDs - same as Hinderburg and Zao which will have better damage then Des Moines as it's more AA escort then fire support. But OP?

 

and even if fire damage is % based, at higher tiers the chance of fire is reduced by a max of 50%, so your 9% chance of fire is reduced to 4,5% (or your 12% to 6% if you have the fire skill, but then you can't afford the stealth one at 5 points).

Managing you repair parties is very important in BB play, and a good player will not take a lot of damage through fire, and repair 100% of one fire. You only hit the repair when there is more than one fire, sometimes you let even 2 burn. And a part of the ship that is burning will not be made on fire twice, so sometimes it's better to just tank the HE shells on the part of the ship already on fire.

 

So you will be doing very little damage with the russian DDs, compared to other ships at that tier. At least USN and IJN can send torp carpets to disrupt enemy formation and deny sailing routes, you will just be the annoying joe pesci making pew pew at the bigger ships.

 

We will see, i will surely grind the line, but slowly because i'm grinding too much at the moment and ships become expensive to buy at higher tiers

[Nagine]

Besides that, i really wonder what WG was thinking when designing a Tier 2 destroyer with 9 tubes and a 15 seconds reload on them. Yeah, only 3km range, but since secondary batteries are useless and the reload is half the time of a BB battery, aswell as just twice the time of a cruiser battery, who is going to stop one of those DDs?

 

 

I tried to imagine how Mikasa with its turbo mega super secondaries is closing in to destroy that useless puny ship 

[EsaTuunanen]

They are lethal in the hands of a good DD captain and with that 4th captain skill unlocked but I doubt that the average Joe will have good stats on them, up to tier 7 they have only 4km range torps so they are only gunboats like the US DD's and look at what the average stats are on those ships.

That 4km torp range will make them lot worser torping platform than even USN DDs with torps usefull only in very limited situations.

So gun is basically only "reliably working" weapon.

Even Gremy's 8km torps don't make it that good torping platform because of their mediocre 55 knot speed and "awesomely fast" for T5 70s reload with just two launchers.

 

And while very good gun against anything in sights including DDs (recently finished Minekaze with two hits from 10km shooting mostly with Gremy's two front guns) that average Joe will no doubt get himself often into trouble.

Even Minekaze has faster gun rotation than that "non-turreted"/single mount 130mm so when getting into cramped space he either can't really shoot or grounds himself.

That close range encounter with DD is where I would see those short range torps working best.

Having those guns pointing to something like usefull direction when detecting enemy DD needs good amount of strategic skills.

 

So there sure won't be sudden rush of high tier Soviet DDs.