Millions of Page Faults

[SkybuckFlying]

Hello,

 

Well playing the game it produces millions of page faults on the following hardware:

 

AMD X2 3800+, 4 GB of RAM

GT 520, 1 GB of RAM.

 

Even on all settings low.

 

I suspect these page faults make the FPS fluctuate wildly between 1/5 FPS and 30 FPS.

 

If these page faults could be fixed the game might actually be playable on this hardware.

 

I suspect the game might be using too much and too many textures for this graphics card.

 

And.Or another explanation could be the torpedo code has some kind of flaw causing massive page faults and spikes.

 

Bye,

  Skybuck.

 

 

[SkybuckFlying]

I don't think it's the graphics card causing this, I ran GPU-z and it shows memory usage and engine usage is low.

 

So it's probably the CPU somehow causing these page faults.

 

Currently virtual memory is distributed over two harddisks not sure if that is the cause of it.

 

Or perhaps some AMD timing issue. I will try and run on only one core or with admin privileges to see if that changes anything.

 

[Realtbhuion]

cpu is bottlenecking the gpu. ram won't help considering it'll probably be pc2-3200, if it's of comparable vintage to the cpu and the motherboard is too.

 

not surprising, cpu is 10yr old, first gen amd dual-core cpu

 

also yes, having your vram split across two hdd's won't help matters, figure out which hdd is faster and use that one for vram, instead of two. using both, it's kinda like raid, it'll operate at the speed of the slower of the two, minus the delay introduced by having to work with two drives and divide access requests.

 

also

 

millions of page faults, page faults for me, millions of page faults, page faults for free.

technically, btw, that cpu is below minimum requirements. way below. minimum AMD cpu is fx-4170, according to official sysreqs. granted there's always some leeway, but not 7 years worth of cpu development of leeway.
 

[SkybuckFlying]

Harddisk doesn't seem to be active much while playing... so I don't think it's the paging to/from disk. Something else is causing this. Perhaps spreading page file over two disks might actually help and perform faster... though again paging not being used much if not at all.

 

I was about to test the affects of running in only 1 core, but servers seem to be down right now in EU ?!

 

Also perhaps processor is somewhat old... however it's still a beafy 2.0 ghz... even if that would be too slow... a drop from 30 fps to 1/5 fps seems somewhat unlikey... since modern cpu's only 2x to 3x times as fast when it comes to processing power... perhaps a little bit more if it has good ipc or whatever.. but this bad is not explained by this... so must be something else. Could be an out of bounds error... perhaps game devs should use some tool to check for out of bounds situations... I also saw werfault pop-up... I also wonder if they using some kind of component which is generating lots of exceptions or so, perhaps that indy component from Delphi ? Not sure if this game is written in C or C++ or Delphi  ?;) Could be anything

[Geist_Krieger]

Beafy 2ghz? Good joke!

How about donating that abacus to a museum and getting yourself something more mordern?

Oh and please don't tell us you're still using a 32bit operating system.

[Realtbhuion]

engine is C++ with some python/c libs for game logic. gui is flash/actionscript. gfx api is dx9.

 

cpu evolution isn't all about clockspeed, btw, and hasn't been for quite some time now. also, even with regards to clockspeed.. current gen i7's run @ 4ghz at stock clockings. 2.0ghz isn't 'beefy' anymore. modern atom cpu's run @ 2.6ghz. 2ghz isn't even 'average' now.

[Geist_Krieger]

Keep in mind that those modern 2.6 ghz CPUs have 4-8 cores instead of 2.

[Realtbhuion]

fx-4170, which is the amd cpu listed in the minimum system requirements, is a quad-core running @ 4.2ghz.

 

the athlon x2 3800+ scores 586 on cpumark benchmarking. the fx-4170 scores 4814. my i7-970 scores 8537. the current gen  i7-6700K scores 10936.

 

time for a new box, mate.

[SkybuckFlying]

Perhaps, I remain unconvinced.

 

It's certainly not time for a new box as long as these GTX are bugged. I've seen other people with newer systems complain about stutter as well.. perhaps it's not as bad on my system but still. The weird thing is sometimes the game plays just fine and then all of a sudden major stutter. Sometimes it can play for a few seconds or even 10 or 20 seconds butter smooth and then all of a sudden... boom freeze. Definetly some bug it seems.

 

Operating System is 64 bit btw.

 

As long as this game is generating 200.000.000+ page faults for just a few hours of play I ain't buying any other explanation until this is fixed lol. I saw something mention a page fault can generate 8 milliseconds of lag.

 

So that's at least 2.000.000 seconds of lag being generated... just by the page faults. It's basically an impossible number... such ammount of page faults would cause hours of lag/freeze ?! pretty darn weird... maybe it's more like microsecond lag... no idea... but I bet it's the main problem here.

[Geist_Krieger]

Well, my i5-3450 OC'ed @3.9GHz + AMD Radeon HD7950 3GB can run the game at a permanent 60+fps, no stutters.

[SkybuckFlying]

Well, my i5-3450 OC'ed @3.9GHz + AMD Radeon HD7950 3GB can run the game at a permanent 60+fps, no stutters.

 

How much system ram, vram and pagefile ram does your pc have ?

 

Also do you see any page faults in task manager ? If so how much after a few hours of playing ?

[Karck]

This sounds like it could be the issue causing my desync! Im running i7 3.6-3.8gz OCd 930, radeon 280GT, 24gb ram 1600mhz.

 

I have posted couple of threads about the desync might want check them out and post on one at beta feedback.

[MrConway]

Hello,

 

Well playing the game it produces millions of page faults on the following hardware:

 

AMD X2 3800+, 4 GB of RAM

GT 520, 1 GB of RAM.

 

 

My best guess is also that its your CPU's fault in this case. It doesn't actually meet our minimum specs: http://worldofwarships.eu/en/content/game/#system_requirements

 

Coupled with a few issues we've been having with AMD CPU's, I would recommend an upgrade.

[Karck]

How can i check how many page faults im getting ifany?

[SmurfOpax]

lol ... sorry i'm IT guy and regularly send people away if they need help with their privat antic museum pieces. People use their PC a lot but are not willing to invest a few Euros for a new machine. They run around with 500€ Smartphones, Tablets etc.. They buy new cars every 5-10 years. They can go to Holidays for 1500€ plus. But investing in a piece of hardware that most of them use minimum 1 hour a day, most people use it a lot more, is no option. Sorry there is something completly wrong here.

 

Just for your information.

 

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD Athlon X4 860K 3.7GHz Quad-Core Processor	$73.89 @ OutletPC
Motherboard	ASRock FM2A88M PRO3+ Micro ATX FM2+ Motherboard	$50.98 @ Newegg
Memory	*Team Elite 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory	$16.99 @ Newegg
Storage	Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive	$46.89 @ OutletPC
Video Card	*Asus Radeon R7 260X 2GB Video Card	$87.98 @ Newegg
Case	NZXT Source 210 (White) ATX Mid Tower Case	$34.99 @ Directron
Power Supply	EVGA 430W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply	$21.99 @ Newegg
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total (before mail-in rebates)	$388.71
	Mail-in rebates	-$55.00
	Total	$333.71
	*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-09-28 23:20 EDT-0400

 

This is a build from the PC gaming Masterrace Thread on reddit. In my opinion nothing that i would use for serious gaming BUT when you compare it to your Rig. That's like comparing a VW Beetle (1960 Model) to brand new VW Beetle.

 

With your Museum piece you just have no right to complain about any errors in a actual game.

 

Btw. i also use a quiet old CPU (i7-965XE) but i paid more then 1000€ for it when it was new. Your Rig wasn't as much money when it was brand new ^^

 

@Karck

You can see them in Windows Performance Monitor.

 

@Skybuckflying

 

Try this Hotfix.

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/14698-official-hotfix-for-freezelag-problem/page__gopid__268426#entry268426

Solved FPS drops and Freezes on other machines. Could be that it works for your historical rig, too.

[Takru]

4GB RAM on a, supposedly, Win XP 64 bit version. Why 64 bit when you only "upgrade" to full 4GB?

 

The game requires a lot of background calculation being done on your end as well. Not sure what exactly, but I would imagine the more objects there are around and visible to you, the slower the game runs for you. If you hold back on buying newer-ish hardware, I very much doubt the game, or many other newer games for that matter, will run smoothly on your rig, regardless of the quality of the coding.

[N00b32]

 

My best guess is also that its your CPU's fault in this case. 

 

Such competence. ^^ 

 

With your Museum piece you just have no right to complain about any errors in a actual game.

 

Of course he has. Loading problems are a constant issue mentioned all over the internet and fast machines are no excuse for efficiency issues. In his case however I suspect a 32 bit OS where the GPU ram actually "steals" 1 GB from his addressable ram resulting in a "real" usable ram about 2.5 GB. And then with a slow hard drive and windows paging it is almost explainable and indeed his "fault". 

 

4GB RAM on a, supposedly, Win XP 64 bit version. Why 64 bit when you only "upgrade" to full 4GB?

 

Well, 64 bit would actually make a lot of sense with 4 GB. The only question is, does he have a problem with page faults ? page faults are perfectly normal depending how the program is written. So yes, it is a valid issue he has and I don't think it has to do with his PC. 

[Geist_Krieger]

 

How much system ram, vram and pagefile ram does your pc have ?

 

Also do you see any page faults in task manager ? If so how much after a few hours of playing ?

 

8GB system RAM DDR3. As stated 3GB VRAM GDDR3, you could also look ub the AMD Radeon HD7950 3GB.

And for pagefile, I haven't changed the standard size for Win10, as I've set up the system about 3 weeks ago.

 

And last but not least: Page faults, I don't have any.

 

I know it sounds like us here looking down on you, calling your pc ancient, but you cannot expect a 10 year old cpu to handle modern games.

[Takru]

 

Well, 64 bit would actually make a lot of sense with 4 GB. The only question is, does he have a problem with page faults ? page faults are perfectly normal depending how the program is written. So yes, it is a valid issue he has and I don't think it has to do with his PC. 

 

A lot of sense? The amount of RAM he gains simply by upgrading to 64 bit is rather small. And since he did the upgrade, adding a bit more RAM wouldn't have hurt either, would it? It would not even have been very expensive to do so over the last couple of years.

[Realtbhuion]

 

Such competence. ^^ 

 

 

Of course he has. Loading problems are a constant issue mentioned all over the internet and fast machines are no excuse for efficiency issues. In his case however I suspect a 32 bit OS where the GPU ram actually "steals" 1 GB from his addressable ram resulting in a "real" usable ram about 2.5 GB. And then with a slow hard drive and windows paging it is almost explainable and indeed his "fault". 

 

 

Well, 64 bit would actually make a lot of sense with 4 GB. The only question is, does he have a problem with page faults ? page faults are perfectly normal depending how the program is written. So yes, it is a valid issue he has and I don't think it has to do with his PC. 

 

um, did you read the thread? he said he's using 64bit, and he's not using integrated graphics ( which is what someone finding that their gpu has its own segment of system ram unaddressable by the os, would be using.), he's using a 1gb nvidia gt520, with its own ram. 2.5gb addressable, btw, on xp, would leave about 2.2 gb of ram free for the game to run in (xp by itself with default services setup and no other stuff running will use between 128mb and 256mb ram, depending on the total amount of system ram available ), and the minimum ram required for the game is 2gb, so.....

 

the game, however... is expecting the fx-4170 as the minimum amd cpu, which is an AM3+ cpu, not an AM2 cpu. it is, concurrently, expecting the system with the minimum fx-4170 cpu to be using ddr3 ram, not ddr2. ( AM3+ is ddr3 only, AM3 was ddr2 and ddr3, but only one option at a time. AM2+ and AM2 were both ddr2 only. 939 was the last amd cpu socket to support ddr1. ) so the ram is going to be underperforming relative to the minimum requirements for the game, the cpu is going to be underperforming, his division of virtual memory across two hdd's is also going to result in sub-par performance. his gpu is literally the only part of his setup that he's mentioned that isn't a bottleneck for his system performance. given that the engine is HEAVILY cpu reliant, the cpu is going to be the most noticeable bottleneck, therefore the primary candidate for blame, as its the most egregrious failure to meet the specs. the hdd division thing a) can't be ruled out until he has a cpu capable of handling the games requests within the paramaters the game expects them to be handled within, and b) is liable to not be a particularly large problem once he has a cpu that's actually capable of meeting the requirements.

[EsaTuunanen]

I suspect these page faults make the FPS fluctuate wildly between 1/5 FPS and 30 FPS.

Of course framerate keeps dropping if game can't get the data it needs from memory but often needs to wait for it being loaded from page/"swap" file.

With full bloated Windows running whole pile of useless services plus kitchen sink in background and then probable x+100 bloated and mostly totally useless auto-start crap/shovelwares running 4GB is too little today.

 

And rollator level CPU needing to run all that besides game doesn't help at all.

Any even slightly prosessing intensive background process will jam that CPU.

 

 

I would see that level PC fit only for word processing (not with latest bloatware Office) and light web browsing and that with properly kept XP and with no useless background processes/software.

And that old hardware itself might not survive long anymore if its was made from cheap parts.

Especially cheap PSU with cheap Chinese capacitors would be major risk.

 

I saw something mention a page fault can generate 8 milliseconds of lag.

With that old hardware make it 80ms and it might be close to real.

Just access time of HDD must be near 20ms and even that is any indicator only for properly defragmented drive with enough free space to avoid constant fragmentation of data.

 

 

lol ... sorry i'm IT guy and regularly send people away if they need help with their privat antic museum pieces. People use their PC a lot but are not willing to invest a few Euros for a new machine. They run around with 500€ Smartphones, Tablets etc..

Indeed weird how everyone needs to have often overpriced no sense fashion toys...

Usually made to be disposable with batteries you can't chance etc.

 

But then everything in PC has to be as cheap as possible including PSU...

While cheap PSUs are often major risk to longevity of PC and at worst even fire hazards.

[Karck]

How can one monitor for page faults while playing? Just curious. As i get alot of desync in moderately good computer.

[mtm78]

[Realtbhuion]

 

 

hope you speak dutch. Rødgrød Med Fløde! Rødgrød Med Fløde! Rødgrød Med Fløde!

 

[mtm78]

 

 

hope you speak dutch. Rødgrød Med Fløde! Rødgrød Med Fløde! Rødgrød Med Fløde!

 

 

 

Red porridge with cream! Red porridge with cream! Red porridge with cream!