How to play a zuiho against a bogue

[silence5]

Just tell me please I had 3 games in a row where I ended up against competent bogue players and tehre is absolutley nothing I can do with my 2 TBs and 1 DB.

All bougues go for air supremacy.

 

That one game in ten where I don't get a bogue on the enemy team is a fun game but the others are jsut hellhole of trying to damage while flying around the map to avoid his fighter squadrons.

[ewokgoeth]

not gonna sugarcoat, the only consolation is Bogue wont be doing that much damage either with sole DB squadron 

still, one tactic I have found useful to a degree is sending dive bombers as a bait, to lead one squadron of enemy fighters on goose chase, while own fighters try to intercept his fighters going for the torpedo bombers... if he plays it smart, this wont work as he will ignore bait and decimate your main strike, but at least the divers get a free pass for one attack or two...

if you are in t6 mm, try to lure his fighters over friendly AA cruisers like cleveland, this can really screw his air superiority 

[silence5]

not gonna sugarcoat, the only consolation is Bogue wont be doing that much damage either with sole DB squadron 

 

Well ... this just proves to me that CVs are still too unbalanced to be fun. 

 

[SirAndreas]

yes they are very unbalanced, bogue is far too superior in air supremacy. Unplayable

[Iron_Gekko]

 

I suggest you go here http://www.warshipstats.com/ the navigate to here http://www.warshipst...om/shipleaders/ and look up different CV's, then use those numbers if we are talking about current CV states. As it stands, the Zuhio outplays the Bogue in Damage which is the most important aspect of individual CV performance and not team.

 

Think the average damage of the Zuhio is 20-40k more but I am too lazy to keep doing this since people relay on their own experience instead of just looking up statistics and making educated judgements.

 

 

[DJ_Die]

Just outsmart the bogue all you need is a couple strikes....he has almost no way of damaging your ships

you can even split up your bombers and have one of the strike forces get a fighter escort....if he goes for one only he wont get the other one....if he goes for both your fighters can stop his single FP squad....

hell you can even go and sink him because bogue is a slow POS thats easy to kill....

im playing Zuiho right now and its just ridiculous how pathetic Bogue feels compared to Zuiho because you can have fighters AND strike package in one....

and it gets a lot worse for US CVs before it gets any better....everything Ranger can do Hyriu can do better and i mean EVERYTHING

[makhot]

I suggest you go here http://www.warshipstats.com/ the navigate to here http://www.warshipst...om/shipleaders/ and look up different CV's, then use those numbers if we are talking about current CV states. As it stands, the Zuhio outplays the Bogue in Damage which is the most important aspect of individual CV performance and not team.

 

Think the average damage of the Zuhio is 20-40k more but I am too lazy to keep doing this since people relay on their own experience instead of just looking up statistics and making educated judgements.

 

How you feel about certain ship is extremely biased. I too felt Zuiho was really poor vs Bogues and I was very frustrated to play with it. However based on statistics I got third highest average damage with it of all my ships (Tier 6 max), just over 45k.. And even that is 7k below the global average.

[Corvi]

Ram him, the only way to be somewhat useful. Flying planes makes no sense at all.

[DJ_Die]

Ram him, the only way to be somewhat useful. Flying planes makes no sense at all.

 

Oh dont joke about that i once had to finish off an enemy bogue with secondaries in my Zuiho because i had run out of planes 

[ewokgoeth]

<-has killed a DD with secondary guns on Bogue once, got close quarters expert badge

 

[Lubbedubbe]

There is no way to play zuiho against bouge. played today lost all my planes xD.

 

[silence5]

I suggest you go here http://www.warshipstats.com/ the navigate to here http://www.warshipst...om/shipleaders/ and look up different CV's, then use those numbers if we are talking about current CV states. As it stands, the Zuhio outplays the Bogue in Damage which is the most important aspect of individual CV performance and not team.

 

Think the average damage of the Zuhio is 20-40k more but I am too lazy to keep doing this since people relay on their own experience instead of just looking up statistics and making educated judgements.

 

 

The fact that you brought up the stats only shows how smart(or lacking of smarts) you are.

My question was how to play a zuiho against a bogue and your answer was ...

"acording to global statistics the zuiho does more damage" and failed to realise that the only reason this statement is true, is the fact that most bogue players go for air supremacy wich renders the zuiho useless after the first 2 waves of failed attacks due to the 2 fighter setup the bogue gets.

 

Now get back to your statistics or bring a real opinion to the table. Yes there are occasional games where I dominate a bogue but that is entirely the fault of the bad bogue player. Any semi decent player will not fight over the enemy ships.

[Iron_Gekko]

 

The fact that you brought up the stats only shows how smart(or lacking of smarts) you are.

My question was how to play a zuiho against a bogue and your answer was ...

"acording to global statistics the zuiho does more damage" and failed to realise that the only reason this statement is true, is the fact that most bogue players go for air supremacy wich renders the zuiho useless after the first 2 waves of failed attacks due to the 2 fighter setup the bogue gets.

 

Now get back to your statistics or bring a real opinion to the table. Yes there are occasional games where I dominate a bogue but that is entirely the fault of the bad bogue player. Any semi decent player will not fight over the enemy ships.

 

Yes of course, my mistake.

 

Because "Neutralizing" the Bogues ability to deal damage to you're fleet (air superiority) is a bad thing, OP fails to realize that this is a team-play game and I am sure plenty of CA captains waste their time and points providing AA cover to BB's and CVs.

 

You can pull his fighters in you're teams AA field if you have a little patience, so try again.

[qrta]

When i see bogue , i just leave game , it is so unbalanced that there is no point moving tb ot fighters anywhere ,because us squadron will kill you on sight.

[Iron_Gekko]

When i see bogue , i just leave game , it is so unbalanced that there is no point moving tb ot fighters anywhere ,because us squadron will kill you on sight.

 

When I see people like you I cringe, it's not a balance issue it's simply you being the problem.

 

You're in a team-game with 11 other people counting on you and you have no problem giving them the finger because life isn't fair, please uninstall the game and quit society, the community/world will be a better place with out you. No... really!

[Jeff_Smart_12]

I dunno, I had little problems with Bouges. They can be a HUGE pain in the [edited]if you don`t play patiently.

 

My startegy was basically the following: Look for a Tier 6 Cruiser and park your bombers above it and harras his DB Bomb squad, the only means of XP to a Bouge player. Sooner or later he gets either pissed and attacks the fighters or the attacks the Bombers above the cruiser. As soon as he flew off I startet my attack run. I'd say this worked 90% the time for me and not rarly I traded my 4 Fighters for 12, because I chose to fight above friendly ships.

 

Another advice: Your carrier is you friend. Park your CV as close as possible to the main battle line behind an island (for obvious reasons) and build "Doom blobs" yourself: Your bombers have gunners too. Not rarely I kite them back to the Zuiho, where I engage them with my Fighters (which are in turn circled by my bombers) and get them stuck above my AAAs. Just remember to prioritise one of the enemy fightersquads with your AAA so that this squad bears the brunt of your AA gunners. I had games where I downed all 12 attackers and lost only 3 fighters. And don't worry about getting bombed while beeing engaged: What is the Bouge gonna do with the pathetic divebombers? Eat up 3k of your health? You got 10 times that to spare. You might even consider to buy the AA Upgrade.

Just out of personal experience: If I counted correctly, 2/3 of the enemy fighters that were shot down, were being killed by the Carrier itself.

 

Anotehr advice: Ignore the Bouge itself. There are far mor valuable targets with guns that can shoot at you on the battlefield. Even if you sink only 1 enemy ship, you might have done more damage than that fighter setup US CV will ever do in the course of the battle.

 

So to wrap this up, my advice for the Zuiho is: Be patient and dictate the rules of engagement. You got more squads and he has to react to you.

[DJ_Die]

 

Finally someone who gets it If you try to go toe to toe with an AS specced CV you deserve to lose but you can play your strengths instead and then Bogue is simply useless and more of a burden for its team than anything else....

[trrprrprr]

I suggest you go here http://www.warshipstats.com/ the navigate to here http://www.warshipst...om/shipleaders/ and look up different CV's, then use those numbers if we are talking about current CV states. As it stands, the Zuhio outplays the Bogue in Damage which is the most important aspect of individual CV performance and not team.

 

Think the average damage of the Zuhio is 20-40k more but I am too lazy to keep doing this since people relay on their own experience instead of just looking up statistics and making educated judgements.

 

Damaga is more if you are able to do it. Sure, im very noob with CVs and just started with jap ones, but 8 from 10 games are purposely against USS CVs with fighter setups.  It would be ok, if there wouldnt be that much ships with scout/fighter planes but as soon as one catches you, you cant run away and its enough time for enemy fighter to get close and kill all squad of my torp bombers in a second or two.  on USS side it was so peacefull with 1/1 setupu where you have uber strong fighter and tight spread torp bomber....you dont need anything else, where japs in low tier are fragile as crap and very confusing to play.  Not sure why the hell most MM end up with one vs one or two vs two cvs, and most of wem are 2 jap vs 2 uss, and its a lose for jap....ok, if i get lucky, i manage to do 20-30k dmg  but thats it, as soon as planes return, they get chased doen and killed by enemy fighters and cant even launch next/last squadrons, cos enemy fighters can park close to you and disable you from game.  But we will see, how it turns out, maby ill just go back to USS side as they are alot better. USS perfect torp drop =5-6torp hits, jap perfect drop = 2 topr hits

[DJ_Die]

You get so many squadrons as IJN you can still get through even US fighters and it's also much easier to catch your enemy flatfooted or out of position with them.....had a game in my zuiho with a bogue against 2 bogues yesterday and i sank one bogue im the first 4 minutes by simply delaying his fighters with mine and then bombing him back to stone age.... 2 TB strikes to force him to repair and then DBs to cause fire and prevent him from launching other planes.... Strike Bogues are even more pathetic because you will just interdict their TBs and most of their DBs while they cant even defend themselves

[trrprrprr]

You get so many squadrons as IJN you can still get through even US fighters and it's also much easier to catch your enemy flatfooted or out of position with them.....had a game in my zuiho with a bogue against 2 bogues yesterday and i sank one bogue im the first 4 minutes by simply delaying his fighters with mine and then bombing him back to stone age.... 2 TB strikes to force him to repair and then DBs to cause fire and prevent him from launching other planes.... Strike Bogues are even more pathetic because you will just interdict their TBs and most of their DBs while they cant even defend themselves

 

And again, IJN is so darn situational and it always helps if there is another CV from USN so you have equal air to air power against enemy, otherwise its just a pure luck and delay = 5-10 seconds to go trough everything thats goin to attack USN carrier. Its something like with DD vs BB, if a BB is noob or just stupid, DD will sink him easy, if BB is aware of what hes doing, no DD will sink him. Same in IJN against USN CVs, you can get to USN carrier in first minutes of battle, if hes dumb enough to send his fighters far away to one side of map, otherwise its impossible to do that...well atleast atm in tier 4 and 5     never had a zero damage battle in USN carriers, while in IJN ive had a few when you are facing two USN fighter setups Even yolo doesnt help, cos ignoring already crippled IJN torp spread, there will be always cruiser or scout that fk up aim even harder. But sure, playing IJN pays off someday, when you get that lucky grat game...atm its just half of battle flying away from enemy fighters and cruining in CV while enemy fighters surround your carrier

[Jeff_Smart_12]

If you are not doing any damage in the Zuiho, no matter what you are up against, the you are either sunk at the beginning or you defnitly are playing it wrong. Again, even if he is a good CV player with superiority setup, he has only to sqauds that can take care of you, you got 5 to tool with. You're japanese, losses are defnitly part of you strategy. Usually if he tries to doomblob a TB Suqad, kit it away from the rest of the strike, they are goners. If he even falls 3 secs for that, you'r away and good for the strike.

 

I personally believe, that the USN CVs up to Tier 6 got screwed with that setup. Why? Because that setup leaves you no choice but to react to the enemy. And as warfare and other games has proven it over and over again, that the moment you loose the initiative and you have to start to guess what your opponent is doing you're basically playing by his rules. Btw, the same goes for the Ryujos fighter setup at which I'm curently at. I changed it to the strike setup after 2 games with it.

 

So another advice which I've forgot to mention: If your opponent parks his fighters in the middle of the map and awaits your reaction, pull your squads out of his visual range and keep him guessing about the exact location. Believe me, this works miracles.

[Noobsplatter]

My best trick in this situation is as follows:

 

-Keep bombers and fighters closeby, bait with bombers (he will most likely rofl at your fighters trying to follow since he can smack them if they pick a fight)

-Once his fighters go for you bombers, fly bombers in a straight line away from the location of your fighters.

-Once lined up, select alt fire with fighters and laugh as his fighters starts to fall. Now if this works well he should typically have 3 fighters left. Either he tries to fight a lost battle or retreats.

-Fight if he stays, follow with fighters and alt fire again if he runs (if you alt fire and he dodges then you will sceam "omfg Noobsplatter tricked me!")

[Poster_2015]

This thread as usual is full of people calling Bogue OP or useless. The truth as usual is somewhere in between. 

 

Why bogue is not OP.

 

1) He indeed sacrifices a LOT in his fighter setup. One DB squad is not that much - if you are GOOD at aiming you can count on ~8-10k dmg per sortie + fires, but that assumes there is no real AA involved and you are really comfortable with bombers (which even many good T10 players are not - its confirmation bias at its finest - DB are considered crap, so noone bothers to play them properly, so they indeed end up being crap). Even then, given how easy it is to kill ships at this low tier games (its like clubbing the seals really), just ONE good double torp strike+ bomb run has potential of outdamaging bogue. 

 

2) if you can fool him, he is VERY suceptible to simply being sunk by you in 1 attack. If you can get one attack he barely can dodge an island with its amazing speed, let alone a torpedo. All it takes is 4 torps and few bombs and he is out. 

 

Why bogue is not useless. 

 

1) Unlike higher tiers, at t5 ships have low plane count. Meaning one good interception from bogue pretty much means irrecoverable loses for zuiho. IIRC zuiho has 8 tbombers in 2 squads and SEVEN backups. So if you get his torps ONCE he cannot replenish them fully. 

 

2) if you intercept his 1st strike and go to his carrier, given abysmal ship AA at this tier, you can basically camp him and prevent anything else being done.

 

All in all, i find this matchup to be balanced but also played completely diffrently. My only problem is not the balance per se, but the weird decision to implement such matchup so low in tiers when players are inexperienced. Bogue plays EASIER - at higher skill/experience level Zuiho can come on top - hell if i bought zuiho now i would not be afraid of Bogue at all. But for new CV players it really can feel that odds are stacked against you. 

[Waagabondh]

 

If your TB land one strike you won the CV game anyway, as Bogue have very little dmg.

That said, 1 US DB squad can actually do some massive dmg if paying attention and attacking BBS that cruisers are on, spamming HE...watch for if he repairs, then use that one squad and DB.

 

In my Bogue I have actually done upwards of 50-60k dmg with one DB squad, and consistently around 30k, while having air supremacy.

But its not very fun to play,. but effective.

But even so, the IJN cvs at this tier and many tiers above have much more planes and able to do much more.

Again, all it takes is 1.2 TB strikes and even if you loose all your ships, the Bogue cant compete in what he brought to the fight.

 

Try going Strike with Bogue and then we can talk frustrating, as he have no fighters but only 1 TB and 2 DBs....Its close to unplayable vs IJN carriers with their one fighter.

Fighter squad is the only way to go unf and its rather boring, but again, can be effective.

 

[Mangrey]

I suggest you go here http://www.warshipstats.com/ the navigate to here http://www.warshipst...om/shipleaders/ and look up different CV's, then use those numbers if we are talking about current CV states. As it stands, the Zuhio outplays the Bogue in Damage which is the most important aspect of individual CV performance and not team.

 

Think the average damage of the Zuhio is 20-40k more but I am too lazy to keep doing this since people relay on their own experience instead of just looking up statistics and making educated judgements.

 

 

This is where WG fail there game .... there are no reward to helping out team mates.... they need to find other ways to reward CV players then damage and sinking ships. 

Give CVs some exp when they kill planes stalking DDs, shoot down other planes attacking other ships, scouting keep other ships and spottet , stuff like that willl give more of a support feel to the CV.

 

Mang