German Cruisers

[Poster_2015]

Did they messed up something with AP ammo when they buffed the damage?

Before tree release I was able to score citadels quite easly with AP with Koningsberg. Im currently on Karlsruhe and cant score any citadel hits with those 150mm guns, just pumped around 30 shells into a Kuma showing me perfect broadside(at 5-6km) and wasnt able to score single citadel. Maybe I was just insanely unlucky. Its just strange.

 

 

EDIT: Another match, fought Pheonix and other Karlsruhe under 10 km, scored many AP hit to their broadsides, not a single citadel. Pheonix could citadel me easly. Either im really unlucky or there is somethign wrong here.

 

Well you are unlucky because definitely they can score citalels.

BUT! The 150mm on Karlsruhe are a LOT weaker then Konigsberg ones. Those are the 45caliber guns as opposed to 60 calibers on Konigsberg. At 10km range in REAL LIFE (no idea how its related to the game), those guns were just slightly above HALF the penetration of their longer kin. 

[Nefczi]

 

Well you are unlucky because definitely they can score citalels.

BUT! The 150mm on Karlsruhe are a LOT weaker then Konigsberg ones. Those are the 45caliber guns as opposed to 60 calibers on Konigsberg. At 10km range in REAL LIFE (no idea how its related to the game), those guns were just slightly above HALF the penetration of their longer kin. 

 

Ah, thx for explanation! I didnt know there is such big diference between those guns. But oh boy, Those Karlsruhe guns are horribly bad. This ship vastly is outclassed by Kuma/Pheonix in its current state.

[Nominoe]

Jepp no citadels for me till Königsberg

[psl_58]

 

Well you are unlucky because definitely they can score citalels.

BUT! The 150mm on Karlsruhe are a LOT weaker then Konigsberg ones. Those are the 45caliber guns as opposed to 60 calibers on Konigsberg. At 10km range in REAL LIFE (no idea how its related to the game), those guns were just slightly above HALF the penetration of their longer kin.

 

 

 

its odd listening to this because Karlsruhe & Konigsberg are often the names of ships in the same class so there is a WWII Konigsberg and Karlsruhe and both are the EXACT SAME SHIP with 7700tons @ 32 knots  & 9 x 6"L60 turreted guns....but then in WW-I both ships were also part of a light cruiser class but 7100tons @ 29knots with 8 deck mounted 6"L45 guns .

[Getzamatic]

 

Roon is Entwurf I/10. Yorck and Hindenburg are believed to be fakes. 

 

 

This bothers me.  I don't see what would be so bad about putting the Deutschlands at tier IX and Kreuzer D at tier X.  Yes, they have 280mm guns, but they only have six of them, their armour isn't any better than that of a Baltimore or Des Moines and they're slow compared to their rivals.  I don't see any reason to invent ships from whole cloth just to conform to an - entirely arbitary - limit like "cruisers can't have guns bigger than 203mm."

[JapLance]

I wonder why they put Kolberg in tier3. Differences with Dresden are minimum. I say remove Kolberg, downtier Karlsruhe to 3 where its 15cm guns can be of some use, and add Emden at tier 4, which at least has a 6-gun broadside and is a bit faster.

 

My experience up to tier 4... I don't like them. They're fragile as silk (I've been detonated with each and every one of them), they lack punch, not specially fast and the gun arc is cleveland-esque, which is not good.

 

I did try tier 5 Königsberg last week and did really enjoy it. Now I'm afraid that with the patch they secretly nerfed it and will be as bad as their previous cousins. If that's the case. It will be a good number of battles for nothing.

[mortuus82]

Thats ashame, like in world of tanks the german tanks are some of the best, i would asume german cruisers ships would be better then this

 

[Andreevson]

I wonder why they put Kolberg in tier3. Differences with Dresden are minimum. I say remove Kolberg, downtier Karlsruhe to 3 where its 15cm guns can be of some use, and add Emden at tier 4, which at least has a 6-gun broadside and is a bit faster.

 

My experience up to tier 4... I don't like them. They're fragile as silk (I've been detonated with each and every one of them), they lack punch, not specially fast and the gun arc is cleveland-esque, which is not good.

 

I did try tier 5 Königsberg last week and did really enjoy it. Now I'm afraid that with the patch they secretly nerfed it and will be as bad as their previous cousins. If that's the case. It will be a good number of battles for nothing.

 

They buffed the AP Damage...

[DBaron]

 

They buffed the AP Damage...

 

Which, without an increase in pen, doesnt actually do much :/

[Andreevson]

 

Which, without an increase in pen, doesnt actually do much :/

 

I remember scoring a lot of citadels with the test version. Increasing the damage is sort of a buff.

[DBaron]

 

I remember scoring a lot of citadels with the test version. Increasing the damage is sort of a buff.

 

Must have been lucky then, if the opponent doesnt show you a nice juicy broadside in mid range, citadels so far

 

The difference for me is, in an US or IJN CA, I score around 5 Cits per game on average, 11 beeing my record so far in a game, with the german line, I think I had 2 or so in 10 games.

[VonPletz]

I wonder why they put Kolberg in tier3. Differences with Dresden are minimum. I say remove Kolberg, downtier Karlsruhe to 3 where its 15cm guns can be of some use, and add Emden at tier 4, which at least has a 6-gun broadside and is a bit faster.

 

My experience up to tier 4... I don't like them. They're fragile as silk (I've been detonated with each and every one of them), they lack punch, not specially fast and the gun arc is cleveland-esque, which is not good.

 

I did try tier 5 Königsberg last week and did really enjoy it. Now I'm afraid that with the patch they secretly nerfed it and will be as bad as their previous cousins. If that's the case. It will be a good number of battles for nothing.

 

Your concerns are correct.  Konigsberg cannons have been nerfed   

 

Why would they do something so stupid where the shell damage is already CRAP.  But they did....  Noticed a significant difference in the ship from pre release to opening up the entire line on Monday.

 

[Andreevson]

 

Must have been lucky then, if the opponent doesnt show you a nice juicy broadside in mid range, citadels so far

 

The difference for me is, in an US or IJN CA, I score around 5 Cits per game on average, 11 beeing my record so far in a game, with the german line, I think I had 2 or so in 10 games.

 

Scored 15 citadel hits regularily in the Konigsberg. Average was around 7 or 8 citadels. Just see a Kuma/Phoenix/Furutaka/Omaha/Aoba and go to town. Seeing a carrier can net you +5 citadel hits at least

[DBaron]

 

Scored 15 citadel hits regularily in the Konigsberg. Average was around 7 or 8 citadels. Just see a Kuma/Phoenix/Furutaka/Omaha/Aoba and go to town. Seeing a carrier can net you +5 citadel hits at least

 

Ur stats dont really support that, but if it was in the test ship, try again, its different now.

[Andreevson]

 

Ur stats dont really support that, but if it was in the test ship, try again, its different now.

 

Any other changes except the AP Damage buff?

[DBaron]

 

Any other changes except the AP Damage buff?

 

Just try it once you are there and see if it feels different ;)

[Gojuadorai]

 

Your concerns are correct.  Konigsberg cannons have been nerfed   

 

Why would they do something so stupid where the shell damage is already CRAP.  But they did....  Noticed a significant difference in the ship from pre release to opening up the entire line on Monday.

 

 

i havnt noticed any difference from test drive to release 

could you be more specific in what aspect there suposedly was a nerf?

 

on topic:

up to ier 5 all ships suck  with karlsruhe beeing prob the worst ship in game

the koenigsberg is ok althogh it really lacks either penetration or he shell dmg or armor. 

but it is playable and prob wont get buffed. i cant commet on higher tiers than 5 but i fear from what i read the ships  have the same problem  that starts with the königsberg but to larger extend

[Andreevson]

 

Just try it once you are there and see if it feels different ;)

 

This is really not a helpful answer.

[VonPletz]

 

i havnt noticed any difference from test drive to release 

could you be more specific in what aspect there suposedly was a nerf?

 

on topic:

up to ier 5 all ships suck  with karlsruhe beeing prob the worst ship in game

the koenigsberg is ok althogh it really lacks either penetration or he shell dmg or armor. 

but it is playable and prob wont get buffed. i cant commet on higher tiers than 5 but i fear from what i read the ships  have the same problem  that starts with the königsberg but to larger extend

 

Specifically, I have noticed that the AP damage has dropped and I am getting many more shots that do no damage than I did before Monday's update.  The HE while already suxs...seems to be doing better than AP.  I know I am not playing any different and my shots are hitting target but there has been about a 10% increase in the number of NO DAMAGE shots that hit.

 

[canuckster]

LOL, this line has completely ruined the game always at the bottom on the XP list while I have to try and carry their sorry behinds in my Wyoming, haven't seen a good Karlshure player yet but they still insist on playing with this useless POS ship.

[ApesTogetherStronK]

LOL, this line has completely ruined the game always at the bottom on the XP list while I have to try and carry their sorry behinds in my Wyoming, haven't seen a good Karlshure player yet but they still insist on playing with this useless POS ship.

 

We gotta get to our Koenigsburgs and Nuernburgs man. I've not fared too shabbily in the couple games I've had so far, even brought a Kongou down somehow last game, but it is still trash. 

[Gojuadorai]

 

Specifically, I have noticed that the AP damage has dropped and I am getting many more shots that do no damage than I did before Monday's update.  The HE while already suxs...seems to be doing better than AP.  I know I am not playing any different and my shots are hitting target but there has been about a 10% increase in the number of NO DAMAGE shots that hit.

 

 

intresting i havnt noticed it but after release i was wondering why i hit a bb @13km  with 4 ap shells and got all 0 dmg might be rng butin test phase that didnt happen

but thats only observation or anything  official on this? or datamaned changes?

[Nefczi]

As the low tier german cruisers are painfull(tier 4 especially...),  the Koningsberg is a fun and capable tier 5 cruiser. I have a lot of fun with it so far. Its definatelly closer to Omaha than Furutaka, performance wise ;)

I has nice rate of fire, and quite good shell travel time/arc. AP ammo wrecks cruisers. I managed to score some citadels from 15km range. HE is crap as expected, but AP can do decent'ish damage to battleships. Amazing angles on torps are usefull in knivefighting situations and let you perform yolo head on attacks at lone BBs much better than Omaha or IJN Cas, as you dont have to show full broadside to fire them. Its situational but still nice. 

 

Its a squishy ship, but all cruisers are, beside maybe Cleveland with its midged citadels. The only gripe I have with this ship it seems it borrowed engine and steering gears from US DDs ;) They get knocked out way too often.

[byronicasian]

 

Your concerns are correct.  Konigsberg cannons have been nerfed   

 

Why would they do something so stupid where the shell damage is already CRAP.  But they did....  Noticed a significant difference in the ship from pre release to opening up the entire line on Monday.

 

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/54595-the-real-0503-patchnotes/

 

The data mine (from gameparams.data file in the client, many thanks to I_am_Seeker) says that there was no HE shell nerf and AP damage was buffed on all the various 150mm guns the German CLs had. 

 

root.PGPA019_150MM_AP_PSGR_L3_7.alphaDamage changed in second object (was 2900.0, is 3700.0)

root.PGPA020_150MM_AP_PSGR_L3_7_C25.alphaDamage changed in second object (was 3000.0, is 3900.0)

 

The low tier CLs also

root.PGPA014_105MM_AP_SAP_PZ_GR.alphaDamage changed in second object (was 1700.0, is 2300.0)
 

And the CAs

root.PGPA025_210MM_AP_PSGR_L3_1.alphaDamage changed in second object (was 4500.0, is 5500.0)
root.PGPA023_203MM_AP_PZ_SPR_GGR_L4_4.alphaDamage changed in second object (was 4800.0, is 5900.0)
 

Hindenberg IIRC also received a rather significant ROF buff from 5-6 rpm. 

 

 

[DBaron]

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/54595-the-real-0503-patchnotes/

 

The data mine (from gameparams.data file in the client, many thanks to I_am_Seeker) says that there was no HE shell nerf and AP damage was buffed on all the various 150mm guns the German CLs had. 

 

root.PGPA019_150MM_AP_PSGR_L3_7.alphaDamage changed in second object (was 2900.0, is 3700.0)

root.PGPA020_150MM_AP_PSGR_L3_7_C25.alphaDamage changed in second object (was 3000.0, is 3900.0)

 

The low tier CLs also

root.PGPA014_105MM_AP_SAP_PZ_GR.alphaDamage changed in second object (was 1700.0, is 2300.0)
 

And the CAs

root.PGPA025_210MM_AP_PSGR_L3_1.alphaDamage changed in second object (was 4500.0, is 5500.0)
root.PGPA023_203MM_AP_PZ_SPR_GGR_L4_4.alphaDamage changed in second object (was 4800.0, is 5900.0)
 

Hindenberg IIRC also received a rather significant ROF buff from 5-6 rpm. 

 

 

 

Doesnt help if you dont pen ...

 

Using the Yorck, my APs bounced off an Omaha (!?!) at 7km range with nearly perfect angle ... now really?